GDT: 2/29/24 - 7:00PM EDT - Buffalo vs Tampa Bay

[Bob and 200 others]

The captain is the one who show the pride, the one who talks and show desperation. You see Stamkos face and looks like we are first. For me is important and is the one who need to put the teammates on the back.
The 7D for you don't make difference, for me seems to have Sheary playing more time.
The backup is worse but is the last goalie who won a Lightning game and have the same numbers of Vasy making only 90% less of his salary.
Men or kids, in life you always need motivation, is the key to turn the page in any sport when things aren't going well.
I like Cooper, but I see his fault in some decisions...

I'm not even a Coop defender really, just don't see this team as a legit contender anymore regardless of the coach.

 

[Ducati Boy]

Why does Thompson disappear for most of the year but suddenly goes into Lemieux mode against us?

 

[Byrddog]

Easy there. We got two Cups out of them so they hardly went to waste. This is how it goes. I'm sure you saw that post earlier about the last Feb29 game. You can't lose those kinds of guys and think that you are the same team regardless of your core talent. And then, of course, our core goalie is still here, but he isn't

You’re missing the point, Kuch and Piint are in their prime. Yes two cups were great. That said the mismanagement of the roster over the last 36 months did in fact cost us the best 3rd line in the league followed by crucial support players Mac Palat Killer the loss of these 6 are the reason the team is where it is presently. Now there was. I way to keep them all that’s the way cap works. But overpaying Corelli, Sergi and Cernak was not the best option. Especially in sight of the good years the team had and poor drafting positions. Letting Verhaghe walk still or rites me was well. People now say he did not show what he was capable of here well there’s a little truth in that he never had long stints in top 6 but he could have played a year on 3rd line after the Gourde line vanished and then moved to top 6. Non of the youngsters have proven they will be productive in the league. And there are those now pumping some in the AHL the same way ABB was pumped. Until they get thru tw years in the league nothing is proven. Look at Jeanott one good year on a weakened Znashville team JBB sold the farm in hopes he could play 2nd line. So now what is to be done ? No way can thevroster be revamped before Kuch and Point are aging out. So yes we are watching two generational guys have there best years to be pissed away.

 

[Bob and 200 others]

"Generational players"?

Kuch? I guess I can see it if I squint. Give it another 5 years at 100points a year and maybe.

Point?

 

[Hockeyville USA]

We went from arguably the most complete lineup in hockey to having 2-3 guys who are untouchable in a span of like 2 years.

f***ing woof.

3 years. 2022 wasn't that deep, we were 1 or 2 top 6 F away from a three peat.

You’re missing the point, Kuch and Piint are in their prime. Yes two cups were great. That said the mismanagement of the roster over the last 36 months did in fact cost us the best 3rd line in the league followed by crucial support players Mac Palat Killer the loss of these 6 are the reason the team is where it is presently. Now there was. I way to keep them all that’s the way cap works. But overpaying Corelli, Sergi and Cernak was not the best option. Especially in sight of the good years the team had and poor drafting positions. Letting Verhaghe walk still or rites me was well. People now say he did not show what he was capable of here well there’s a little truth in that he never had long stints in top 6 but he could have played a year on 3rd line after the Gourde line vanished and then moved to top 6. Non of the youngsters have proven they will be productive in the league. And there are those now pumping some in the AHL the same way ABB was pumped. Until they get thru tw years in the league nothing is proven. Look at Jeanott one good year on a weakened Znashville team JBB sold the farm in hopes he could play 2nd line. So now what is to be done ? No way can thevroster be revamped before Kuch and Point are aging out. So yes we are watching two generational guys have there best years to be pissed away.

They let Marchessault and Verhaeghe go because of their bias towards JT Brown and Mitchell Stephens. Oof

 

[Bartleby]

You’re missing the point, Kuch and Piint are in their prime. Yes two cups were great. That said the mismanagement of the roster over the last 36 months did in fact cost us the best 3rd line in the league followed by crucial support players Mac Palat Killer the loss of these 6 are the reason the team is where it is presently. Now there was. I way to keep them all that’s the way cap works. But overpaying Corelli, Sergi and Cernak was not the best option. Especially in sight of the good years the team had and poor drafting positions. Letting Verhaghe walk still or rites me was well. People now say he did not show what he was capable of here well there’s a little truth in that he never had long stints in top 6 but he could have played a year on 3rd line after the Gourde line vanished and then moved to top 6. Non of the youngsters have proven they will be productive in the league. And there are those now pumping some in the AHL the same way ABB was pumped. Until they get thru tw years in the league nothing is proven. Look at Jeanott one good year on a weakened Znashville team JBB sold the farm in hopes he could play 2nd line. So now what is to be done ? No way can thevroster be revamped before Kuch and Point are aging out. So yes we are watching two generational guys have there best years to be pissed away.

I haven't missed the point. If every decision was a perfect one by JBB then we would be in better position then we are now, no doubt. But nobody bats a 1.000 and you have completely forgotten the good moves that he made to get us those Cups. I'm not giving JBB a pass, I just know that in a flat cap environment really tough decisions had to be made and nothing was going to allow the team that won those Cups to stay together.

 

[Bartleby]

3 years. 2022 wasn't that deep, we were 1 or 2 top 6 F away from a three peat.


They let Marchessault and Verhaeghe go because of their bias towards JT Brown and Mitchell Stephens. Oof

I'm as pissed as anybody about the state of things but the amount of Monday morning quarterbacking going on here is a joke.

 

[JTBF81]

There was no chance if keeping Coleman or Goodrow, and after the seasons that Cirelli and McD had, it was unlikely Tampa was going to expose either in the Seattle expansion draft(although given the way things worked out, maybe keeping Gourde and Cirelli if McD was gone the year after wouldn't have been a bad idea). Even so though, Gourde may have had to have been traded regardless after '22, as there probabaly wouldn't have been any room for him either. Even if the 3 big rfas had been paid what some on here thought they should, Tampa would've only had an extra 2-2.5 million. Maybe they could've kept one of Gourde, Palat, , Killorn or Colton, but not more than one and definitely not McD. The Jeannot trade and the Sheary signing remain his only truly terrible blunders given how much was paid and who else was available.

 

[Major4Boarding]

They do have a goalie coach on the payroll, right?

 

[Todd1a]

You’re missing the point, Kuch and Piint are in their prime. Yes two cups were great. That said the mismanagement of the roster over the last 36 months did in fact cost us the best 3rd line in the league followed by crucial support players Mac Palat Killer the loss of these 6 are the reason the team is where it is presently. Now there was. I way to keep them all that’s the way cap works. But overpaying Corelli, Sergi and Cernak was not the best option. Especially in sight of the good years the team had and poor drafting positions. Letting Verhaghe walk still or rites me was well. People now say he did not show what he was capable of here well there’s a little truth in that he never had long stints in top 6 but he could have played a year on 3rd line after the Gourde line vanished and then moved to top 6. Non of the youngsters have proven they will be productive in the league. And there are those now pumping some in the AHL the same way ABB was pumped. Until they get thru tw years in the league nothing is proven. Look at Jeanott one good year on a weakened Znashville team JBB sold the farm in hopes he could play 2nd line. So now what is to be done ? No way can thevroster be revamped before Kuch and Point are aging out. So yes we are watching two generational guys have there best years to be pissed away.

1. Over paid cirell should be 5.25
2. Over paid cernak should be 4.5
3. Over paid serg should be 7.5 not more then Morgan Reilly got in Toronto.
4. Traded for Jeannot absolutely terrible move and over paid him 2.665 per year
5. Signing Connor sheary absolutely horrible move for a 3 year term if it was a 1 year deal then it wouldn’t be so bad because then we could have moved on .
6. Without paying Jeannot and sheary we could have resigned Ross Colton for 4 year 3.5 to 3.75 AAV that would have been a good deal comparable to what he got from Colorado with no state taxes.
7. Could have signed

JAMES van RIEMSDYK for a million bucks or gave him 1.5 AAV and has 37 points yet we are sitting here with Connor sheary .​

8. JBB should have traded Brent seabrook and got out of that cap strapped situation yes serg got hurt and we have LTIR but we would have had cap space to make a run at a defenseman at the deadline.
9. Vasy just isn’t playing to the level worth his contract maybe next season he will be healthy and turn it around the Florida goalie Bob has had some rough years and bounced back .

 

[LightningStrikes]

I see we still stink, but a little less. Baby steps!

 

[Byrddog]

1. Over paid cirell should be 5.25
2. Over paid cernak should be 4.5
3. Over paid serg should be 7.5 not more then Morgan Reilly got in Toronto.
4. Traded for Jeannot absolutely terrible move and over paid him 2.665 per year
5. Signing Connor sheary absolutely horrible move for a 3 year term if it was a 1 year deal then it wouldn’t be so bad because then we could have moved on .
6. Without paying Jeannot and sheary we could have resigned Ross Colton for 4 year 3.5 to 3.75 AAV that would have been a good deal comparable to what he got from Colorado with no state taxes.
7. Could have signed

JAMES van RIEMSDYK for a million bucks or gave him 1.5 AAV and has 37 points yet we are sitting here with Connor sheary .​

8. JBB should have traded Brent seabrook and got out of that cap strapped situation yes serg got hurt and we have LTIR but we would have had cap space to make a run at a defenseman at the deadline.
9. Vasy just isn’t playing to the level worth his contract maybe next season he will be healthy and turn it around the Florida goalie Bob has had some rough years and bounced back .

Hard to dispute. The thing that is worrisome is Vasy. If his play is even slightly related to that surgery. Then chances are he will never return 100% of what he was. Same question is for Sergi it is according to how low the break was where they put the rod in. He will come back but at what level?

Most just tend to look back and cherish the cups yeah that was great. But this roster is hard to watch and yes there should have been better decisions made but that’s gone. What can be done now? Well not much in the short term.

And someone took a shot at my post giving Kuch and Point the generational talent label. While neither could alone carry a team to a cup Points goal scoring places him there imo I mean how few have 50 in a season now? Kuch is just a point machine Well vet a point per guy even adding his early years . I’m not saying they are Crosby or McDavid but players like ghem are not common.

 

[FinnLightning26]

A team that should be desperate for points goes into the third period with a lead on home ice and shits the bed once again.

When is the last time they lost four in a row at home? 10 years ago?

 

[Ducati Boy]

Instead of armchair GMing, I’d say the focus now is simply doing what’s necessary to get into the playoffs. After that, anything is possible.

Hopefully, in the next 7 days, we will pick up someone who can increase our chances of at least securing a spot.

 

[Hoek]

3 years. 2022 wasn't that deep, we were 1 or 2 top 6 F away from a three peat.


They let Marchessault and Verhaeghe go because of their bias towards JT Brown and Mitchell Stephens. Oof

Keep in mind if we kept those guys we'd just have even more cap problems. Look at what they make now.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Keep in mind if we kept those guys we'd just have even more cap problems. Look at what they make now.

More good players = more opportunities to valuable trade players before UFA and get solid returns, keep the success going where you just refill the roster with younger cheaper players NFL style.

But yes your sentiment is true. I'd rather have a deep cap strapped team than a less deep, inconsistent scoring cap strapped team.

 

[The Gongshow]

Coop didn’t sell an entire draft class for Jeanot, JB did that.

Firable offense

 

[PaulGG]

Obviously we are in a slump, it happens. We are no longer SC favorites/contenders and that happens as well , to every team. There is no quick fix trade that will change it. I still love my team and extremely grateful we played in more SCF than any team with these guys and got two cups.

 

[Bartleby]

Coop didn’t sell an entire draft class for Jeanot, JB did that.

No argument. A bad, bad move. But if the goal is to infuse some desperation and give a massive wake up call to the entire group with the hope of salvaging the season then, fair or not, Coop has to be the one to go. It's the one thing you can do in the short run without further decimating our already meager draft and prospect pool.

And lets be clear about Coops tenure, he's been great, but there are and were more than a few NHL coaches who could have coached the amount of talent that this team has had for the past 10 years to Stanley Cups. And just as I've said about Trotz, he was a great coach, but I think he may have left some Cups on the table in WAS. We'll never know but he had a stud team and Ovie at his absolute peak. The same may be true here.

I know this will get some hackles up, but there is a reason that a coach with Coops record of success has never won the Jack Adams, and that is simply that he has always had a ton of talent to work with and the writers recognize that.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

No argument. A bad, bad move. But if the goal is to infuse some desperation and give a massive wake up call to the entire group with the hope of salvaging the season then, fair or not, Coop has to be the one to go. It's the one thing you can do in the short run without further decimating our already meager draft and prospect pool.

And lets be clear about Coops tenure, he's been great, but there are and were more than a few NHL coaches who could have coached the amount of talent that this team has had for the past 10 years to Stanley Cups. And just as I've said about Trotz, he was a great coach, but I think he may have left some Cups on the table in WAS. We'll never know but he had a stud team and Ovie at his absolute peak. The same may be true here.

I know this will get some hackles up, but there is a reason that a coach with Coops record of success has never won the Jack Adams, and that is simply that he has always had a ton of talent to work with and the writers recognize that.

Cups left on the table are more so the result of poor drafting (Connolly, sorta Namestnikov, Koekkoek, sorta Drouin, DeAngelo, both Foote brothers, (especially Cal) and a bevy of 2nd rounders like Blujus, Hart, Erne, Masin, MacLeod, Stephens, Spencer, Katchouk, Volkov. Howden and Hajek were turned into McDonagh & Miller, but both were drafted ahead of DeBrincat, which was bad. Katchouk was turned into Hagel, but he was drafted ahead of Girard and bad luck (Bishop, Stamkos, Point all getting hurt in separate instances during the playoffs and/or regular season)

The only Cup that should have been an "easy" one was 2018, and I place that on Cooper for failing to adjust when Trotz definitely outcoached him in the Conference Final. While 2019 was embarassing, that was a 1st round series, no guarantee that they get to the Final even if they beat Columbus.

 

[Bartleby]

Cups left on the table are more so the result of poor drafting (Connolly, sorta Namestnikov, Koekkoek, sorta Drouin, DeAngelo, both Foote brothers, (especially Cal) and a bevy of 2nd rounders like Blujus, Hart, Erne, Masin, MacLeod, Stephens, Spencer, Katchouk, Volkov. Howden and Hajek were turned into McDonagh & Miller, but both were drafted ahead of DeBrincat, which was bad. Katchouk was turned into Hagel, but he was drafted ahead of Girard and bad luck (Bishop, Stamkos, Point all getting hurt in separate instances during the playoffs and/or regular season)

The only Cup that should have been an "easy" one was 2018, and I place that on Cooper for failing to adjust when Trotz definitely outcoached him in the Conference Final. While 2019 was embarassing, that was a 1st round series, no guarantee that they get to the Final even if they beat Columbus.

I'm talking about the talent we had, not the talent we might have had.

Regardless of the drafting or trade "mistakes", if you want to call them that, the talent that we had in hand at peak for at least a 7 year period of time was extremely formidable by anyone's reckoning. And again, two Cups and two Finals on top of that is nothing to sneeze at. I'm not saying for sure that someone else could have done better, not at all, I'm just saying that he had a ton to work with.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

I'm talking about the talent we had, not the talent we might have had.

Regardless of the drafting or trade "mistakes", if you want to call them that, the talent that we had in hand at peak for at least a 7 year period of time was extremely formidable by anyone's reckoning. And again, two Cups and two Finals on top of that is nothing to sneeze at. I'm not saying for sure that someone else could have done better, not at all, I'm just saying that he had a ton to work with.

My point is that Cooper should have had even better rosters if Yzerman/Al Murray had just done marginally better in the draft.

 

[Bartleby]

My point is that Cooper should have had even better rosters if Yzerman/Al Murray had just done marginally better in the draft.

Yeah, I don't like those kinds of analyses because they are after the fact and irrelevant in my estimation. As I said before, it supposes to some extent perfect pre-knowledge of what someone will turn out to be and that is not possible in any sphere. Kucherov and Point as post first round picks alone make their tenure a success and I think the balance sheet looks pretty good all in for those guys.

 

[DFC]

My point is that Cooper should have had even better rosters if Yzerman/Al Murray had just done marginally better in the draft.

I don't think it's all that fair to criticize that regime for drafting. Other things, sure, but their drafting was the major reason we won two cups. Every team missed on the players you're talking about, not just us. This is all relative. Not a single team drafted better than we did during that era. They drafted two, possibly three, Hall of Famers in under a decade.

The issue is we had SO much good talent to choose from, that when it came time to pay the best of it, we didn't have enough money for the rest of it. Which is pretty much what the salary cap is designed to do.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Yeah, I don't like those kinds of analyses because they are after the fact and irrelevant in my estimation.

As I said before, it supposes to some extent perfect pre-knowledge of what someone will turn out to be and that is not possible in any sphere. Kucherov and Point as post first round picks alone make their tenure a success and I think the balance sheet looks pretty good for those guys all in.

Production models exist based on prior data from previous drafts, those need to be taken into consideration when drafting players. Eye test and interviews only go so far.