Proposal: 1st-2nd line centre to St.louis

[BluesTraveller]

I'd be surprised if Rattie became a .5 PPG player TBH.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I'd be surprised if Rattie became a .5 PPG player TBH.

Well there's really no in between. He either adds strength and becomes a 60ish point player or he doesn't add strength and never makes it. He's not like Jaskin who has a guaranteed NHL career. I'd say his chances of being a .75 PPG player is pretty likely.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Yeah, Rattie is definitely boom or bust. Either he becomes a solid scoring line option, or he doesn't stick in the NHL. Unfortunately that's just the way it is with him. Jaskin on the other hand, has a future even if he doesn't develop into that top six forward we're hoping for.

 

[Gilligans Island]

I just think we won't be seeing eye to eye depending on how you value Rattie. Rattie has just as much value as Jaskin in our eyes. He's not just some mid throw-in prospect.

I guess the way I see Thornton's value is something like a 3C and a top 6 forward prospect, or a 1st and a tweener fwd prospect. Sobotka & Rattie fit the former.

 

[Gilligans Island]

Yeah, Rattie is definitely boom or bust. Either he becomes a solid scoring line option, or he doesn't stick in the NHL. Unfortunately that's just the way it is with him. Jaskin on the other hand, has a future even if he doesn't develop into that top six forward we're hoping for.

Yeah, that's why I picked Rattie over Jaskin. Jaskin's size just seems to give him an edge as a Top 6 winger in the Western conf. In the East, Rattie's size wouldn't matter as much.

 

[LongLiveTheNote]

Shattenkirk realistically won't be traded until one of the younger guys is ready.

Us Blues fans have just been throwing him in different trades because he is probably our most tradable asset. He's relegated to 2nd line D with J-Bo and Petro being locked up long term. He's great on the powerplay and could definitely play first line minutes which is what makes him valuable and a wanted asset to other teams. Probably won't be traded for another 2-3 years, if at all IMO.

Ideally a combo of Berglund/Sobotka/1 of Jaskin or Rattie/ and picks would be used for trade bait. Unfortunately, I don't see a combo of those that gets us the #1 center we want.

EDIT: I guess I could see Shatty getting traded as long as we get a solid second line D guy. He's just also our most offensive defensivemen and we are looking to add offense, not get rid of it.

 

[bleedblue1223]

That combo gets us Spezza, which is why he is the next most realistic option after Stastny.

 

[Majorityof1]

Trading a guy who can play center (Sobotka) to fix our issue of no center depth is puzzling to me. Heck, packaging Berglund, even though I think he'd make a much better wing, takes even one more center off the bench. Ideally, I'd like Backes, a good offensive center, a good third line center, Lapierre for the 4th and a winger/center combo who can fill in as needed on the 2nd/third lines.

Trading Sobotka for Spezza leaves us with Backes, Spezza and Lapierre. Sobotka is a good third line center who can slot up in emergencies. If we trade him, we can package something and get an upgrade. But then we have to go out and sign a 3rd line center and that winger/center guy. I really only want to do this if we strike out on Stasny and Grabovski. Then if we can get Spezza for Sobotka+Berglund, we can go after Legwand or Cammalleri for 3rd line center.

 

[BlueDream]

Let's assume you don't land Statsny, Sharks offer two packages:

1) Pavelski, Demers for Shattenkirk, Sobotka and Rattie
2) Thornton for Sobotka and Rattie

(Demers gives you a top 4 dman who can play the PP - not at Shattenkirk's level, sure)

I'd say either of those Cs than any mentioned above.

Good proposals. A guy like Demers is exactly what I'd be looking for if we traded Shattenkirk.

Also if we could get Thornton for a package around Sobotka I would jump for joy and swim across the ocean to pick up Sobotka from the Czech Republic and put him on a canoe and paddle him back to the U.S. as quickly as possible. I couldn't get him out of St. Louis fast enough if it meant Joe Thornton.

 

[LongLiveTheNote]

Its just hard to work out a trade without including 1 or both of those guys because those are our guys that have value. We have to give up something to get something. If it takes a decrease in talent on our third line to get an upgrade in our top 6...yes please. Ideally, I'd love to keep Sobotka though. He's perfect for the 3rd.

 

[Gilligans Island]

Good proposals. A guy like Demers is exactly what I'd be looking for if we traded Shattenkirk.

Also if we could get Thornton for a package around Sobotka I would jump for joy and swim across the ocean to pick up Sobotka from the Czech Republic and put him on a canoe and paddle him back to the U.S. as quickly as possible. I couldn't get him out of St. Louis fast enough if it meant Joe Thornton.

Thanks for the feedback.

I tossed in Demers because I figured the Blues would want a 2nd pairing RD who can produce on the PP. It'd be nice to keep Demers as our 3rd RD but give to get.

Demers, if given PP time, is pretty good. His primary assists / 60 minutes compare well to Shattenkirk: 1.26 to 1.32. Demers needs to work on his accuracy and then his PP goals will come. It's a good hard shot just not accurate yet.

I'm torn which of those two packages I'd do.

 

[JustOneB4IDie]

I'm all in for the Blues to get Eric Staal myself over Spezza, he's a couple of years younger. Sure it will cost a lot.

By the way there is a poll currently up on Stastny : Is he a 1st or 2nd line Center and by a pretty wide margin he's considered a 2nd line Center not a 1st and I am in agreement with this.

 

[LongLiveTheNote]

I'm all in for the Blues to get Eric Staal myself over Spezza, he's a couple of years younger. Sure it will cost a lot.

By the way there is a poll currently up on Stastny : Is he a 1st or 2nd line Center and by a pretty wide margin he's considered a 2nd line Center not a 1st and I am in agreement with this.

If Carolina agrees to pay some of his contract, I'm in.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I'm all in for the Blues to get Eric Staal myself over Spezza, he's a couple of years younger. Sure it will cost a lot.

By the way there is a poll currently up on Stastny : Is he a 1st or 2nd line Center and by a pretty wide margin he's considered a 2nd line Center not a 1st and I am in agreement with this.

He's a first line center like Backes is. Backes is our Bergeron and Stastny would be our Krejci.

 

[Frenzy31]

Roy's peak was better than Grabo's, but Grabo is all around better than Roy. He's better offensively than Sobotka, and comparable defensively.

Up to this year he has been better offensively then Sobi. I agree 100% with that and I am not sure Sobi will be able to put up similar numbers offensively next year. That is a huge question for me - can he come close to repeating his offensive output.

HOWEVER, to say Grabo is better defensively is just wrong. It isn't even a subjective thing. Sobi is much better in defensively - shoot does Grabo even see time on the PK?

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Up to this year he has been better offensively then Sobi. I agree 100% with that and I am not sure Sobi will be able to put up similar numbers offensively next year. That is a huge question for me - can he come close to repeating his offensive output.

HOWEVER, to say Grabo is better defensively is just wrong. It isn't even a subjective thing. Sobi is much better in defensively - shoot does Grabo even see time on the PK?

He said that Grabo was comparable defensively...

 

[Kasparov]

what...word around the block is that richards or nash may be bought out? i know nash wouldn't help us so much for anchoring down our center depth, but what if we could sign richards?

 

[bleedblue1223]

Richards is washed up. He's going to be just like Vinny. If he's cheap, then sure, but someone will give him too many years.

 

[Kasparov]

Richards is washed up. He's going to be just like Vinny. If he's cheap, then sure, but someone will give him too many years.

hahah! Rangers will buy him out and resign him to another ridiculous contract.

 

[JustOneB4IDie]

If Carolina agrees to pay some of his contract, I'm in.

Yep.

 

[Frenzy31]

He said that Grabo was comparable defensively...

Ok. I was wrong in my quote, but he isn't comparable defensively either. Sobi, coming into this year was known as a defensive forward that could bounce up onto the 2nd line for injuries. (Outside of the AHL where he had strong offensive showing) he was known more for effort, defense, and grit.

Grabo is known for offensive play. Not defense.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Sobotka may be known for his defensive play, but Grabo isn't exactly a slouch. He's always really been a two way player.

 

[Majorityof1]

Ok. I was wrong in my quote, but he isn't comparable defensively either. Sobi, coming into this year was known as a defensive forward that could bounce up onto the 2nd line for injuries. (Outside of the AHL where he had strong offensive showing) he was known more for effort, defense, and grit.

Grabo is known for offensive play. Not defense.

Coming into this year, Sobotka was known as a 4th line winger who probably would have to fight Paajarvi for playing time. Oh those were the good old days when we thought we had depth. Point being, nobody though Sobotka would play center or get anywhere near the 2nd line. Through a combination of good play by Sobotka, "gumption" (another way of saying the coach liked him and the coach plays favorites), injuries and incredibly poor play by the bottom half of the roster, he worked his way to the 2nd line. It definitely would have been unheard of coming into the season.

Here were the opening day lines based on both my memory and time on ice stats:

Steen - Backes - Oshie
Schwartz - Berglund - Tarasenko
Morrow - Roy - Stewart
Sobotka - Lapierre - Reaves
Paajarvi, Cracknell

As for Grabovski, he definitely is considered a 2nd line guy. However, he has been used as a defensive forward because he is good at it. Toronto used him primarily in defensive situations, which hurt his point production and pissed him off. They still did it because he was good at it. That is why I'd love Grabovski. He has the skills to be great offensively if given the chance, and he'd revel in it. However, he can hold his own defensively if need be.

 

[Majorityof1]

By the way there is a poll currently up on Stastny : Is he a 1st or 2nd line Center and by a pretty wide margin he's considered a 2nd line Center not a 1st and I am in agreement with this.

Well if the HF boards say he isn't, then obviously we should pass on them. Why should the Blues bother witth scouts when they can just poll the HF boards? I'll admit, I was never high on Stasny, but that's because I never really watched him. When everyone and their grandmother started talking about how the Blues should sign him, I took a closer look. I was impressed. Maybe I drank the Kool-Aid, but that Kool-Aid was laced with watching game footage and looking deeply at the stats.

He is a 1st line center who hasn't been given first line minutes. Given the chance on St. Louis with 2 talented wings, he will definitely play like a first liner. He won't be Crosby, Toews or Giroux. But he is a middle of the pack first liner and the best we can get at this point. As you can say the same about Backes, that is a good 1-2 punch.

First of all, he does not play top line minutes in Colorado, and yet he still scored 60 points which is 21st among centers. This puts him in the top 30, which means, he'd be a first line center somewhere. Further, since he does get less ice time than many of these, his points per 60 is actually 11th among centers in the league. So only 10 centers would have scored more had ice time been equal. Finally, Colorado used him in a defensive role. He won't be used that way here. He will get more offensive zone face-offs and favorable match-ups. Backes will draw the tough assignments. This will only increase his numbers even more. Very few top line centers are iced in defensive situations. It drains their energy with low chance of creating offense. To succeed offensively in spite of this, is impressive, much like Backes. He would have a ton better numbers if not relied on defensively.

The only players better than Stasny at points per 60 that may be available are Spezza, Pavelski and Soderberg. I'm not sure how much it would take to trade for one of those or if they will even be available. They are just names people have discussed in trades. Soderberg is only .01 better. The other two are less than 0.15 more than Stasny. Spezza isn't getting anywhere near the defensive situations. He is terrible defensively.

So yes, given the right circumstances, Stasny has what it takes to be a top line center. He will get more ice time and won't be relied on for as much defensive. I can see him pushing 70-75 if everyone is healthy, clicks and not hampered by Hitch's system.

 

[Dbrownss]

Coming into this year, Sobotka was known as a 4th line winger who probably would have to fight Paajarvi for playing time. Oh those were the good old days when we thought we had depth. Point being, nobody though Sobotka would play center or get anywhere near the 2nd line. Through a combination of good play by Sobotka, "gumption" (another way of saying the coach liked him and the coach plays favorites), injuries and incredibly poor play by the bottom half of the roster, he worked his way to the 2nd line. It definitely would have been unheard of coming into the season.

Here were the opening day lines based on both my memory and time on ice stats:

Steen - Backes - Oshie
Schwartz - Berglund - Tarasenko
Morrow - Roy - Stewart
Sobotka - Lapierre - Reaves
Paajarvi, Cracknell

As for Grabovski, he definitely is considered a 2nd line guy. However, he has been used as a defensive forward because he is good at it. Toronto used him primarily in defensive situations, which hurt his point production and pissed him off. They still did it because he was good at it. That is why I'd love Grabovski. He has the skills to be great offensively if given the chance, and he'd revel in it. However, he can hold his own defensively if need be.

It's been stated several times we need more scoring from the 3rd line. With that said I don't believe grabo would be hemmed in a defensive role and would be given the opportunity to be more offensive....Heck if the stars align and we get statsny, statsny and Backes will pull the toughest opposition, and having someone like grabovski as a 3rd liner would just be mean.... He only made 3mil last year. We could give him a raise in compensation for lesser minutes lol....

Sorry, I'm really stuck on grabo for some reason