Proposal: 1st-2nd line centre to St.louis

[JustOneB4IDie]

The thing to remember with Pouliot is that the talent has always been there. He's just wildly inconsistent. He looked absolutely dominant in spurts with both Tampa and Boston, but he balanced it out with his periods of disappearing.

Please no. Blues don't need another Chris Stewart.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Please no. Blues don't need another Chris Stewart.

I wasn't advocating for going out and getting Pouliot...

 

[Wondercarrot]

There is a lot of discussion regarding what you get with Spezza, why Ottawa might move Spezza.
Ill throw my 2 cents in.

1. What you get.
Might be best by starting with what you dont get. You dont get 1st half of last year Spezza.
First half of last year Spezza was responsible for most of his -26, his poor skating, and general awfulness. (we got that, you get the benefit of his rehab being on us.)
What i believe you will get is a human highlight reel of an offensive player, like he was before he missed last season, and like he was the last half of this year. He WILL pile up points.

You WILL get a guy who is average defensively (he is NOT the abomination he has now been made out to be)
You WILL also get a guy who significantly ups his defensive effort in the playoffs, while still putting up his offensive numbers.
So yes there is some pacing to his game during the regular season.

You WILL get a guy who will make any and every winger he plays with better. Want to play him with your best wingers? he will drive the line and make them better than you ever thought they were.
want to play him with 2nd and 3rd line talents - you'll end up overpaying those wingers after they have career years.

Spezza is a game changing player, he will score highlight reel goals, and he will beat goalies clean from a distance with absolute laser of a shot.
He will make plays out of nothing and retain offensive zone possession.
He will break you through the neutral zone and gain offensive zone possession.

2. So why is Ottawa possibly trading the most talented player outside of maybe Karlsson they've ever had?

Its not a simple answer but it goes back a long way. Early on Spezza while being an offensive wizard did have a tendency to do things like no look drop passes at the blue line that sometimes wouldnt work out, or at the wrong time of the game.
a hardcore component of fans never EVER let it go, so the narrative of Jason Spezza began in Ottawa.
Even as he improved that aspect of his game, became much more diligent about the when's and where's - the people who are never happy unless a guy plays like Mike Fisher never changed while Spezza changed and grew up.
Spezza has been a great teammate, a good organization guy and he has taken more abuse in Ottawa for those perceived shortcomings than any other player we've ever had.

Even 2 years ago when he had the best season of his career, the same group of people, some newspaper, some fans just couldnt seem to be happy with his success.
Its really quite sad.
IMO from Spezza's point of view why would he want to stay at this point? The fans dont appreciate him. He gets used as a scapegoat, and he has an opportunity to move to a contender - something Ottawa wont be for awhile and to a team that will spend to get/keep great players.
From Ottawa management point of view, we are deep at center and can use him to shore up weaker areas, he can be moved with a riot starting because of the way fans have viewed him. (believe me its a vocal minority that want him moved) the majority do not want to see him traded since he will never be replaced.
We are a budget team and the owner doesnt/cant spend. in the end this is the single biggest reason he will be moved.
There is some risk with his longterm back health i suppose but he played 75 games this year, played 80 2 years ago.

Anyway this has gotten far too long. Suffice it to say whoever picks up Jason Spezza will be stealing him at a discount bin rate for a truly great hockey player.
Aside from the stats, he really is one of the few guys you would pay to see play the game. he's a joy to watch.

For sure wherever he goes i cant wait for him to light it up, for his new fans who dont carry the baggage to have their jaw drop on a semi regular basis when they realize what they have stolen from us.

 

[OCTA8ON*]

There is a lot of discussion regarding what you get with Spezza, why Ottawa might move Spezza.
Ill throw my 2 cents in.

1. What you get.
Might be best by starting with what you dont get. You dont get 1st half of last year Spezza.
First half of last year Spezza was responsible for most of his -26, his poor skating, and general awfulness. (we got that, you get the benefit of his rehab being on us.)
What i believe you will get is a human highlight reel of an offensive player, like he was before he missed last season, and like he was the last half of this year. He WILL pile up points.

You WILL get a guy who is average defensively (he is NOT the abomination he has now been made out to be)
You WILL also get a guy who significantly ups his defensive effort in the playoffs, while still putting up his offensive numbers.
So yes there is some pacing to his game during the regular season.

You WILL get a guy who will make any and every winger he plays with better. Want to play him with your best wingers? he will drive the line and make them better than you ever thought they were.
want to play him with 2nd and 3rd line talents - you'll end up overpaying those wingers after they have career years.

Spezza is a game changing player, he will score highlight reel goals, and he will beat goalies clean from a distance with absolute laser of a shot.
He will make plays out of nothing and retain offensive zone possession.
He will break you through the neutral zone and gain offensive zone possession.

2. So why is Ottawa possibly trading the most talented player outside of maybe Karlsson they've ever had?

Its not a simple answer but it goes back a long way. Early on Spezza while being an offensive wizard did have a tendency to do things like no look drop passes at the blue line that sometimes wouldnt work out, or at the wrong time of the game.
a hardcore component of fans never EVER let it go, so the narrative of Jason Spezza began in Ottawa.
Even as he improved that aspect of his game, became much more diligent about the when's and where's - the people who are never happy unless a guy plays like Mike Fisher never changed while Spezza changed and grew up.
Spezza has been a great teammate, a good organization guy and he has taken more abuse in Ottawa for those perceived shortcomings than any other player we've ever had.

Even 2 years ago when he had the best season of his career, the same group of people, some newspaper, some fans just couldnt seem to be happy with his success.
Its really quite sad.
IMO from Spezza's point of view why would he want to stay at this point? The fans dont appreciate him. He gets used as a scapegoat, and he has an opportunity to move to a contender - something Ottawa wont be for awhile and to a team that will spend to get/keep great players.
From Ottawa management point of view, we are deep at center and can use him to shore up weaker areas, he can be moved with a riot starting because of the way fans have viewed him. (believe me its a vocal minority that want him moved) the majority do not want to see him traded since he will never be replaced.
We are a budget team and the owner doesnt/cant spend. in the end this is the single biggest reason he will be moved.
There is some risk with his longterm back health i suppose but he played 75 games this year, played 80 2 years ago.

Anyway this has gotten far too long. Suffice it to say whoever picks up Jason Spezza will be stealing him at a discount bin rate for a truly great hockey player.
Aside from the stats, he really is one of the few guys you would pay to see play the game. he's a joy to watch.

For sure wherever he goes i cant wait for him to light it up, for his new fans who dont carry the baggage to have their jaw drop on a semi regular basis when they realize what they have stolen from us.

I really appreciate this post. It's refreshening to hear from an Senators fan opposed to many Blues fans on this forum who have never watched him play and make judgements based on his latest reputation.

 

[Majorityof1]

I really appreciate this post. It's refreshening to hear from an Senators fan opposed to many Blues fans on this forum who have never watched him play and make judgements based on his latest reputation.

I have gamecenter since I don't live in St. Louis to get FSMW and I like watching other teams. I can pull up any game from the season at any time. I have watched a good sampling of Ottawa games this year, especially now that I have gone through hockey withdrawal with the Blues out of the playoffs and teams I don't want to win are left. I have watched a random sampling of about 30 Sens games throughout the year. So while it may not be as many as Ottawa fans, I also don't look through rose colored glasses. The criticisms of him this year, to me, are very valid. I think his uptick in production at the end of the season stemmed more from Hemsky than improved health. I still didn't see the hustle on defense I would want. Maybe I am wrong. I'll never claim to know the most about hockey as many of you. But my opinion is not without a valid basis of having watched him. Take it for whatever it is worth.

 

[OCTA8ON*]

I have gamecenter since I don't live in St. Louis to get FSMW and I like watching other teams. I can pull up any game from the season at any time. I have watched a good sampling of Ottawa games this year, especially now that I have gone through hockey withdrawal with the Blues out of the playoffs and teams I don't want to win are left. I have watched a random sampling of about 30 Sens games throughout the year. So while it may not be as many as Ottawa fans, I also don't look through rose colored glasses. The criticisms of him this year, to me, are very valid. I think his uptick in production at the end of the season stemmed more from Hemsky than improved health. I still didn't see the hustle on defense I would want. Maybe I am wrong. I'll never claim to know the most about hockey as many of you. But my opinion is not without a valid basis of having watched him. Take it for whatever it is worth.

I wasn't singling you out or anything; in fact, I agree with many things you have said on this forum.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

I really appreciate this post. It's refreshening to hear from an Senators fan opposed to many Blues fans on this forum who have never watched him play and make judgements based on his latest reputation.

Or perhaps...some of us have actually watched him play and have formed our opinions on what we've actually seen.

 

[Majorityof1]

I wasn't singling you out or anything; in fact, I agree with many things you have said on this forum.

I know you weren't. I was just giving an alternate take from a Blues fan who has watched him a fair amount. It is always tough on a board like this because fans of a team watch their players the most, yet fans are also the most biased. That is why the main boards rarely have anyone agree to a trade. They overvalue their players and don't know enough to value the other teams. I'll admit I have my biases, but I like to watch different players. At the deadline, I knew we needed a center. Kesler and Spezza were rumored to be available. We didn't' get them, but I knew they would be available at the draft. So I watched a bunch of games for both to see if I liked the idea of them being Blues. I actually warmed slightly toward Spezza, although I still have concerns. I soured considerably toward Kesler.

 

[Old Blueser]

I have gamecenter since I don't live in St. Louis to get FSMW and I like watching other teams. I can pull up any game from the season at any time. I have watched a good sampling of Ottawa games this year, especially now that I have gone through hockey withdrawal with the Blues out of the playoffs and teams I don't want to win are left. I have watched a random sampling of about 30 Sens games throughout the year. So while it may not be as many as Ottawa fans, I also don't look through rose colored glasses. The criticisms of him this year, to me, are very valid. I think his uptick in production at the end of the season stemmed more from Hemsky than improved health. I still didn't see the hustle on defense I would want. Maybe I am wrong. I'll never claim to know the most about hockey as many of you. But my opinion is not without a valid basis of having watched him. Take it for whatever it is worth.

Seconded. I live on the East Coast, have Gamecenter, my brother was engaged to an Ottawa girl in Spezza's heyday...very rosy perspective from the Ottawa poster on the 29-year old version of Spezza. BTW, those bad drop passes are all too frequent, saw a terrible one the last time I saw the Sens at the end of the season.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Spezza takes a ton of risks in the offensive zone and that's why it might not be a great fit. It would be stupid to make him do the cycle because with Schwartz and Tarasenko, they don't need to do that, but at the same time, we can have breakaways going the other way. Hopefully he's coachable on that aspect of his game.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

If there's any team that can shelter Spezza and mask his faults, it's us. I'm not saying he's my first choice but I do think we could do a lot worse than him.

 

[Dbrownss]

If there's any team that can shelter Spezza and mask his faults, it's us. I'm not saying he's my first choice but I do think we could do a lot worse than him.

Absolutely, I also think the spezza line would be getting matched up against lesser opposition, while the backes line takes the top lines. That would be business as usual for the SOB line. This team will be deadly if the SOB line can maintain their production and the SST turns into an offensive Juggernaut.

 

[Wondercarrot]

Seconded. I live on the East Coast, have Gamecenter, my brother was engaged to an Ottawa girl in Spezza's heyday...very rosy perspective from the Ottawa poster on the 29-year old version of Spezza. BTW, those bad drop passes are all too frequent, saw a terrible one the last time I saw the Sens at the end of the season.

there was nothing rosy about it. (other than the year itself)
he finished 4th in scoring 2 years ago. with Greening and Michalek as his wingers!! He finished 6th in Hart voting, he was a +11.

he did everything. im not sure what more you want from a top player than what he did that year? what is the rosy perspective there?
those are all facts.
I saw Crosby, Malkin, Thornton, Tavares, Towes, make an ill advised play too - do those ones count as well? Guys who have the puck on their stick all game make more mistakes....because they have the puck on their stick all game.
If you are going to criticize anything its really not that infrequent drop pass that every player has made from time to time, its the no look firing it out in front of the net from behing the net or corner hoping/expecting someone to be there that happens when he forces things to much.

 

[Wondercarrot]

so last thing here, i dont want to be annoying or tell you what your eyes are seeing but:

I have gamecenter since I don't live in St. Louis to get FSMW and I like watching other teams. I can pull up any game from the season at any time. I have watched a good sampling of Ottawa games this year, especially now that I have gone through hockey withdrawal with the Blues out of the playoffs and teams I don't want to win are left. I have watched a random sampling of about 30 Sens games throughout the year. So while it may not be as many as Ottawa fans, I also don't look through rose colored glasses.

The criticisms of him this year, to me, are very valid. I think his uptick in production at the end of the season stemmed more from Hemsky than improved health.

I still didn't see the hustle on defense I would want. Maybe I am wrong. I'll never claim to know the most about hockey as many of you. But my opinion is not without a valid basis of having watched him. Take it for whatever it is worth.

The reality is this:

Spezza was about a -20 by Christmas. (roughly the first 40 games)
he ended at a -26
he was clearly a shell of himself until around that time when you could see his game had turned around.

Over the next 20 games he had 20pts (no Hemsky)
The following 20 games (with Hemsky) he had 19 or 20pts.

In the 20 games before he came to ottawa Hemsky had 8 pts.
In the 20 games after he came to ottawa Hemsky had 19 or 20 pts in 20 games.

it wasnt Hemsky bringing up Spezza's game (although they did play beautiful hockey together) it was clearly Spezza lifting Hemsky back into the player he's capable of being.
There is a reason why Hemsky said that Spezza was the best center he's ever played with and that his resigning in ottawa was going in large part depend on what happens with spezza.

this is what makes it doubly depressing - we are going to lose both Spezza and Hemsky.

anyway since you're in the west its easy to wish you good luck...so...good luck!