GDT: #16 NJ (8-6-1) @ CHI (8-6-1) - 8:30PM Airwolf Edition

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

what do we think Palmieri's contract is going to look like?

something similar to Henrique maybe? or maybe slightly less years

 

[Emperoreddy]

what do we think Palmieri's contract is going to look like?

something similar to Henrique maybe? or maybe slightly less years

I think a Rico like deal is fair IMO

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

I could see Palmieri getting a deal similar to the Rico one.

 

[Feed Me A Stray Cat]

It's just I've beaten that horse to death and when I mention his name people get a little crazy.

My simplistic view. All this teams problems started with addition of Kovalchuk. I honestly believe that.

I personally believe everything that has happened started with that addition in 2010. I believe it was a source(one of, not the only) of financial problem that lead to horrible rosters, I believe it was a factor in players leaving and I believe it was the source of the garbage we had to replace the players that left.

Everything was begot from that one horrible decision.

Yes, the devils complete lack of young nhl ready scoring forwards from 2011 to present day was the result of Kovalchuk.

 

[Feed Me A Stray Cat]

The reason this team has struggled over the last four years is because vrana, zharkov, vasyunov, josefson, tedenby, hoeffel, cormier, bergfors and halischuk all busted. Luckily we were able to trade the last three.

We have one top six forward from the 2005 to 2011 drafts - henrique.

Part of that is due to drafting a lot of defensemen. Some of it is bad luck. Some of it is incompetence. But that is the reason why we found ourselves struggling.

 

[mtnet]

I'd agree possibly something slightly less than rico's with regard to annual salary or term but at that point why split hairs? shero seems like a pretty shrewd guy so far, not so much in the hard-nosed way of things, but in an undervalued asset type of way so I'd expect a contract both palm and mgmt can live with

palmieri is worth more on our team than on the ducks (or even stempniak on the jets for that matter)...same with moore to a lesser degree, not as impactful in an obvious way but he was underutilized and tossed aside then proved himself a decent value once he got settled in with our club (though I realize he has a 3-year already so not part of the same discussion, just sayin)

stemp is on a bit more in years obviously so it will be interesting seeing what happens next March

 

[John Pedro]

Kalinin is getting better game after game. Finally, we have two good lines. Kalinin remembers me of young Zubrus because of the way he protects the puck.

Josefson is shooting the puck more, which is a good thing as well.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I'm really becoming a fan of Kalinin.

Obviously we saw last night why everyone wanted Panaran, but our Russian was still a solid pick up

 

[Brodeur]

I'm really becoming a fan of Kalinin.

Obviously we saw last night why everyone wanted Panaran, but our Russian was still a solid pick up

Speaking of Russian free wallets, Elliotte Friedman mentioned in his column that a few teams will probably be keeping their eye on Vadim Shipachyov (or Shipachev depending on the site). 28 year old center who was on SKA with Panarin/Tikhonov/Kovalchuk last season as well.

 

[JimEIV]

Yes, the devils complete lack of young nhl ready scoring forwards from 2011 to present day was the result of Kovalchuk.

Welp...I knew this would happen.... but yes, yes it was. A first in 2010 in the initial trade would have been an NHL ready player today. That was Kevin Hayes by the way. The dimished pick in 2014 from the contract penalty would've been #11 overall, that was Kevin Fiala who had 20 points in his first 33 AHL games and has played a game for Nashville already. The Devils brought up Henrique during that time as well. It's more than that though. I've chronicled the assets multiple times...and on top of that, it wasn't only tangible assets it was the short roster with minor league players that had to be iced because of cap issues, it was also losing Oduya in the trade and Martin cause (well I don't want to get into that either). That led to having to sign Tallinder and Volchenkov.

But let's agree to disagree here. Check that, you win. The forward dearth had nothing to do with him. I agree.

 

[Brodeur]

Welp...I knew this would happen.... but yes, yes it was. A first in 2010 in the initial trade would have been an NHL ready player today. That was Kevin Hayes by the way.

At the time, I think most of us wanted a PMD since Larsson/Severson weren't in the system yet. I don't think it's out of the question that we would have drafted Merrill at #24 had we kept the pick. Off the top of my head, Merrill was something like #22 on Bob McKenzie's list and as high as #11 on ISS' list. Lou mentioned how Merrill was much higher on the Devils list than #38.

Hayes might have bailed on us too, which would have left us with the 54th pick in last year's draft as compensation.

 

[Balance]

Welp...I knew this would happen.... but yes, yes it was. A first in 2010 in the initial trade would have been an NHL ready player today. That was Kevin Hayes by the way. The dimished pick in 2014 from the contract penalty would've been #11 overall, that was Kevin Fiala who had 20 points in his first 33 AHL games and has played a game for Nashville already. The Devils brought up Henrique during that time as well. It's more than that though. I've chronicled the assets multiple times...and on top of that, it wasn't only tangible assets it was the short roster with minor league players that had to be iced because of cap issues, it was also losing Oduya in the trade and Martin cause (well I don't want to get into that either). That led to having to sign Tallinder and Volchenkov.

But let's agree to disagree here. Check that, you win. The forward dearth had nothing to do with him. I agree.

The offensive core is bad because Kovalchuk held the entire offense together and when he left it all collapsed. The team depended on him night in and night out.

The season in the lockout the team was 0-10 without him in the lineup. It's commonly attributed to Parise leaving (which had nothing to do with anything, Parise was no where near as important as Kovy was to the team) but in reality it was Kovalchuk's injury, Brodeur's injury and Hedberg playing awful in his absence, and a lockout season that made the team miss the playoffs.

 

[HenriquesJawLine]

At the time, I think most of us wanted a PMD since Larsson/Severson weren't in the system yet. I don't think it's out of the question that we would have drafted Merrill at #24 had we kept the pick. Off the top of my head, Merrill was something like #22 on Bob McKenzie's list and as high as #11 on ISS' list. Lou mentioned how Merrill was much higher on the Devils list than #38.

Hayes might have bailed on us too, which would have left us with the 54th pick in last year's draft as compensation.

Why would Hayes have bailed? He left the Hawks because they were so loaded, he would have stepped right in the Devils lineup.

 

[Oneiro]

We can't conveniently be proud of the 2012 run where we had Kovalchuk, attribute that run to Lou's greatness and use it as evidence that he hasn't lost his touch and then simultaneously say the Kovy deal was not his doing and that it ruined the team for a couple years.

It is impossible to know where in the standings we would be without Kovy.

And we have busted on enough first round picks that you cannot make the argument that Lou/Conte would have picked a non-busting player.

 

[Cheddabombs]

It had been a while since the last Kovalchuk talk around here, at least that I've seen, so I guess this shouldn't surprise me. But still, really? We have a team playing some excellent hockey right now sitting in the first wild card spot, and we're still talking about Kovalchuk? Who cares. He's gone, we're left with what we have and it's damn exciting in my opinion.

 

[Brodeur]

Why would Hayes have bailed? He left the Hawks because they were so loaded, he would have stepped right in the Devils lineup.

It's all conjecture, but with Lou in charge still, he wouldn't have offered Hayes a contract with performance bonuses. That could've been a hiccup in the negotiation.......and that's making the huge assumption that we would have drafted Hayes in the first place.

Like I mentioned, it's possible that swapping our 1st for Atlanta's 2nd didn't have a huge consequence since we conceivably would have taken Merrill earlier.

Here's TSN's ranking for 2010:
1-30: http://www2.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=24944
31-60: http://www2.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=7323

The "best" available at #24:

17. Emerson Etem
22. Jon Merrill
23. Jarred Tinordi
24. Evgeni Kuznetsov
25. Tyler Pitlick
26. Quinton Howden
27. Tyler Toffoli
28. John McFarland

Anyways, my point is that not having a first rounder in 2010 doesn't seem like a primary reason for our recent struggles. I get that there is a certain perception with being a first rounder rather than a high second rounder.

 

[Bleedred]

I don't really agree with Jim on hardly anything having to do with Kovalchuk.

But if we're going to talk about him on here, I'd rather see Jim trashing the guy than reading about all these fake scenarios where he's supposedly coming back and how much we need him because he's obviously still a 30+ goal/80 point scorer in the NHL.

 

[NJDevs26]

The season in the lockout the team was 0-10 without him in the lineup. It's commonly attributed to Parise leaving (which had nothing to do with anything, Parise was no where near as important as Kovy was to the team)

Except that they still haven't made the playoffs without Parise since 2004, including 2010 where he missed practically the entire season while Kovalchuk did play every game except the one he was benched for. BOTH were important, pretty much the twin backbone of the 2012 team and it's taken years to recover from losing both of them. Everything else is just conjecture and in the past.

 

[MadDevil]

You can tell we won last night when we're back to complaining about the past.

 

[EliasFTW]

The reason this team has struggled over the last four years is because vrana, zharkov, vasyunov, josefson, tedenby, hoeffel, cormier, bergfors and halischuk all busted. Luckily we were able to trade the last three.

We have one top six forward from the 2005 to 2011 drafts - henrique.

Part of that is due to drafting a lot of defensemen. Some of it is bad luck. Some of it is incompetence. But that is the reason why we found ourselves struggling.

Funny part is people were all up in arms anytime we drafted forwards those years."our forward depth is fine we need D" the masses chanted and it was until Parise and Kovalquits left. That doesnt excuse the lack of drafted tallent but thats why you dont draft for needs.

 

[Emperoreddy]

We can't conveniently be proud of the 2012 run where we had Kovalchuk, attribute that run to Lou's greatness and use it as evidence that he hasn't lost his touch and then simultaneously say the Kovy deal was not his doing and that it ruined the team for a couple years.

It is impossible to know where in the standings we would be without Kovy.

And we have busted on enough first round picks that you cannot make the argument that Lou/Conte would have picked a non-busting player.

If we are really going to dredge up the past I think you can do both.

Kovy was a big part of why we went to the finals.

But you can still argue the the trade, combined with the contract (Jeff's money issues), the contract penalty, and finally his departure all played key roles in the down turn of the franchise.

Obviously other issues played a part such as the busting of forward prospects, zach leaving and the team getting old, but the Kovy saga played a part. I don't think that can be denied.

To put sole blame on him I think is hyperbolic though. Plus if he is indeed as hurt and broken as it sounds. His retirement did us a huge favor as a broken kovy on his cap hit would of been a nightmare (people complain about Zajac. But a 30-40 point Kovy at his hit would of been worse).

Plus we most likely don't get a pick back if he is still here. I much rather have JQ then nothing at all two years ago.

It's a long complicated saga on why we fell. Part of it is Lou's fault, part of it is Conte, part of it is Jeff going broke.

On the flip side the future is looking brighter in part because of these guys. We don't have Cory without Lou. Same with Andy, Lars, Merrill, Severson, Rico, etc.

 

[Balance]

Except that they still haven't made the playoffs without Parise since 2004, including 2010 where he missed practically the entire season while Kovalchuk did play every game except the one he was benched for. BOTH were important, pretty much the twin backbone of the 2012 team and it's taken years to recover from losing both of them. Everything else is just conjecture and in the past.

2010- John Maclean. In fact, the team was pretty terrible with Parise as well. Then Lemaire came in and the team went on an absolute tear without Parise.

2012- Kovalchuk with no back completely outplayed Parise in the playoffs along with the regular season.

This team has had good success without Parise. 2011 proves that with their insane tear through the league. All I remember with Parise was the guy who could not step it up in the playoffs. Why? He did not possess the talent. Parise works harder then most guys every night. Come playoff time when everyone elevates their game he can't compete at the same level.

I don't miss Parise, that contract Minnesota gave him is an absolute albatross. He got superstar money when he isn't a superstar.

We need a star that can shine in the playoffs, that is not Parise. That was Kovalchuk, but he's not here anymore. We just need to wait for that day to come or get that type of player through a draft and we are back in cup contention.

 

[Balance]

This also may sound crazy, but Kalinin is a guy we need to sign long term.

If he starts putting in the quality chances he's getting, he's a 60pt power forward. He could get big $$$ in free agency. Sign this guy long term, he is the future face of this franchise, I have no doubt.

He didn't pick up the numbers in the KHL for three reasons
1. He is young
2. His game is designed for smaller ice surfaces than bigger ice
3. He needs to play with decent linemates

Shero made an amazing pickup. We all talk about the draft, but Free agency signings have definitely helped the Devils out more in the past than the draft.

 

[SeidoN]

calm down dude. Kalinin has been good lately but lets keep the 60pt face of the franchise longterm deal stuff in check

 

[Balance]

I can see talent when I see it on TV. Josefson won't be on this team in 3 years, guaranteed. Kalinin, on the other hand, has more talent in his pinky than Josefson.