13-14 Prospects Thread Version XXI: Finn 2nd. in PPG OHL Defenders

[TimeZone]

How the hell did Finn not make the WJ team? that's such a ****ing joke.

No wonder that team finished so poorly, what a terrible job selecting players.

 

[Mikeyg]

What if he gets 14 goals and passes to his teammate on an empty net 2-0 . Will you let it slide ?

no free passes, not everyone can win.

 

[Mikeyg]

I wanted him, but I believed he'd show improvement.

Size, skating, awareness add experience and you should see improvement no?

TBH who cares about this year, he's still 18 years old.

If next year at this time he's shown no improvement maybe we worry.

its like biggs all over again but worse ohl production, I get that hes 18 or whatever but honestly I can't think of any examples where a player was basically flat in the ohl and suddenly blossomed when they turned pro.

When I watch bustier I just think of colborne in that they both have big frames that aren't filled out and dont use their size to push lanes and get to the dirty areas or throw their weight around.

Nonis is quoted as saying that he thinks bustier under produced in his draft year when they drafted him "we think he has more production to give" or however it was worded on draft day. Basically that is saying that they are justifying this pick because we think that we can get more production out of him and that combined with the defensive intangibles yada yada make this a justifiable pick. In stead however, the opposite has occurred and imo he has fallen off offensively and now all that we are left with is essentially a low producing defensive specialist which equates to a jmac 2.0 imo

I honestly just think they blew it with this pick and should of traded up with detroit (who has the reputation for wanting to trade picks for later ones) and got mantha.

I just dont personally see how this pick could ever not be deemed as a bust unless he somehow develops into a 15-20 goal third line center in the nhl. I'm not saying that it is unrealistic expectations, I just dont think that it is at all feasible

 

[Peasy]

How the hell did Finn not make the WJ team? that's such a ****ing joke.

No wonder that team finished so poorly, what a terrible job selecting players.

And leaving off Brown.

 

[pooleboy]

its like biggs all over again but worse ohl production, I get that hes 18 or whatever but honestly I can't think of any examples where a player was basically flat in the ohl and suddenly blossomed when they turned pro.

When I watch bustier I just think of colborne in that they both have big frames that aren't filled out and dont use their size to push lanes and get to the dirty areas or throw their weight around.

Nonis is quoted as saying that he thinks bustier under produced in his draft year when they drafted him "we think he has more production to give" or however it was worded on draft day. Basically that is saying that they are justifying this pick because we think that we can get more production out of him and that combined with the defensive intangibles yada yada make this a justifiable pick. In stead however, the opposite has occurred and imo he has fallen off offensively and now all that we are left with is essentially a low producing defensive specialist which equates to a jmac 2.0 imo

I honestly just think they blew it with this pick and should of traded up with detroit (who has the reputation for wanting to trade picks for later ones) and got mantha.

I just dont personally see how this pick could ever not be deemed as a bust unless he somehow develops into a 15-20 goal third line center in the nhl. I'm not saying that it is unrealistic expectations, I just dont think that it is at all feasible

I don't watch gauthier a lot but I in my limited viewings (wjc YouTube videos games on tv) he looks very position ally strong and his game looks very translatable for the next level, just don't expect him to be a top 6 c... "But u draft potential in the 1st round" not what gauthier is, defensivly sound 3rd maybe 4th defensive centerman, however, if u look at how our team is set up a position ally sound good defensive center is what our 1st line needs, not saying that's what he will become but don't need a ton of skill when u have kessel on ur wing (just opinion bozak is playing lights out this year making me eat a lot of my words)

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

Anthony Mantha is a stud.

 

[Mikeyg]

I don't watch gauthier a lot but I in my limited viewings (wjc YouTube videos games on tv) he looks very position ally strong and his game looks very translatable for the next level, just don't expect him to be a top 6 c... "But u draft potential in the 1st round" not what gauthier is, defensivly sound 3rd maybe 4th defensive centerman, however, if u look at how our team is set up a position ally sound good defensive center is what our 1st line needs, not saying that's what he will become but don't need a ton of skill when u have kessel on ur wing (just opinion bozak is playing lights out this year making me eat a lot of my words)

the problem is that in 6-7 years when most of the top 6 is out of prime and less productive, there is nothing to fill that void, its a lot easier to find a jmac (the role in which you described) then it is to find top 6 centers in this league, you need to draft them, and drafting more jmac's is just putting this team more and more behind every year, its been like this for 4 years now and the only one who has a SNIFF at becoming a top 6 player is really leivo... having bustier as a 4c is a disappointment in my mind anyway, need more from him forsure

 

[BertCorbeau]

I honestly just think they blew it with this pick and should of traded up with detroit (who has the reputation for wanting to trade picks for later ones) and got mantha.

... Because Detroit would trade 1 spot down?? And likewise Toronto would pay assets to move 1 spot up?? ... Errr

the problem is that in 6-7 years when most of the top 6 is out of prime and less productive, there is nothing to fill that void, its a lot easier to find a jmac (the role in which you described) then it is to find top 6 centers in this league, you need to draft them, and drafting more jmac's is just putting this team more and more behind every year, its been like this for 4 years now and the only one who has a SNIFF at becoming a top 6 player is really leivo... having bustier as a 4c is a disappointment in my mind anyway, need more from him forsure

Jesus I'm sick of people thinking the Leafs have no top 6 potential in the prospect pool

Connor Brown says hi.
Carter Verhaeghe is showing promise.
Andreas Johnson has had a solid rookie year in Europe.
Fabrice Herzog has 27 goals this year in the Q.
Greg McKegg has taken a good step forward in his development this season.

That's not counting some potential late bloomers in the AHL (Abbott and Kozun) or some developmental picks in college (Toninato, Cameranesi)

Gauthier's a developmental pick.. Put up good numbers in his rookie year in the Q and has been noted he didn't start to focus on hockey until he was older ... He just needs time to develop his offense as his defensive abilities could nearly translate to the AHL already (in a 4th line role) .. He's got the size to be a good centre in the league, just needs some time to develop properly

 

[BertCorbeau]

Edit-wrong thread

 

[The Blue Devil]

that is true. though I think teams in the first round should have chosen Finn

Calgary is a great example.

Calgary? They were in need of pretty much everything, the biggest screw up was Edmonton. They were in need of defense, so they of course took a forward.

 

[The Blue Devil]

I am apathetic about him now, my expectations are fairly low for him given his skill sets. if he can be a better Mcclement, this is the best we can hope for.

This Bergeron lite type player is a pipe dream folks.

Who said that? Most people are saying that he can be a Martin Hanzel type player.

 

[FrozenJagrt]

Thanks for the update! I heard he will need a bit of time in the AHL. Bit meaning a year. Right?

Likely more. He'll likely get some NHL time next year just to see where he's at, but I believe he'll be brought along fairly slow

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Who said that? Most people are saying that he can be a Martin Hanzel type player.

I read it in here, can't remember who said it, but this would be very inaccurate. Bergeron is one of the smartest players in the NHL, appreciated him before, even more after the Olympics. At this point, I can see Leafs one day including Gauthier in a package in a deal for another prospect in the similar age group. He has been very disappointing this year. No other way to sugarcoat it.

 

[The Blue Devil]

I read it in here, can't remember who said it, but this would be very inaccurate. Bergeron is one of the smartest players in the NHL, appreciated him before, even more after the Olympics. At this point, I can see Leafs one day including Gauthier in a package in a deal for another prospect in the similar age group. He has been very disappointing this year. No other way to sugarcoat it.

If he can become a Hanzal type of player, why would we trade him?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

If he can become a Hanzal type of player, why would we trade him?

That's the question can he? Gauthier may be another Carter Ashton, when a high pick has only 10 goals in the Q thus far this year, how many goals is it reasonable to think he will score in the NHL?

 

[The Blue Devil]

That's the question can he? Gauthier may be another Carter Ashton, when a high pick has only 10 goals in the Q thus far this year, how many goals is it reasonable to think he will score in the NHL?

What if he gets 30 next year? He's only 18 and to write him off this early is premature and ridiculous.

 

[Christ]

How the hell did Finn not make the WJ team? that's such a ****ing joke.

No wonder that team finished so poorly, what a terrible job selecting players.

Finn, Brown and Domi all should have been on that team...have no idea what the people selecting that team were thinking.

 

[Northernguy10]

He'll be fine.

I understand everyone's anticipation for success after a first round pick in the draft. However it's all a matter of perspective. Honestly , if Gauthier for example, becomes a decent 3rd or 4th line center who is contributing to the success of the Leafs in 3-5 years I really don't care what round he was drafted in. It's all about putting together a winning team and to me, that's the bottom line. Again, I understand the expectations of higher round picks but many first rounders don't even make the NHL never mind become top 6 forwards or top 4 defencemen.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

What if he gets 30 next year? He's only 18 and to write him off this early is premature and ridiculous.

Post draft year player, usually progress, not go backward. If he gets 30 next year I will be happy. I sure hope he does, at 19 in the Q if you don't. We know this will not be good.

 

[Neil Hamburger]

Calgary? They were in need of pretty much everything, the biggest screw up was Edmonton. They were in need of defense, so they of course took a forward.

Yeah, because drafting based on positional need is so smart...

The hate for Yakupov is seriously getting ridiculous.

 

[theIceWookie]

And the Gauthier circle jerk continues...

I don't get what people expect is going to happen by constantly pointing out that he's been dissapointing? Do they think we all forget since the last time they told us?

The guy is only 18, playing in only his second season of CHL hockey. He didn't take the expected jump in goal progression that many expected, but he's improved his faceoffs, his assists, his agression in PIM's.

People keep moaning over "real prospects never falter in their post draft seasons...aghhh". Once again, no two player is a like. Gauthier is nothing but dissapointing at this point but he is far from a bust.

Big players traditionally take longer to develop. Once upon a time Martin Hanzal had a post-draft USHL season of 19 points in 19 games. That's actually awful for the USHL. Yet look at where he is today.

Point production in junior leagues means very little. It doesn't mean he destined to be nothing but a Jay McClement. It means he's a slower developing player in only his 2nd CHL season and he's still growing.

Let it die. He's not going to suddenly go from dissapointing to amazing this season. There is no reason to keep harping on the guy. Let him play his season out and reevaluate when he's gone a significant amount of time into his 3rd CHL season.

 

[The Blue Devil]

Yeah, because drafting based on positional need is so smart...

The hate for Yakupov is seriously getting ridiculous.

I'm talking about the 2nd round where Finn would've been considered BPA if they decided to take him.

 

[Duffman955]

I understand everyone's anticipation for success after a first round pick in the draft. However it's all a matter of perspective. Honestly , if Gauthier for example, becomes a decent 3rd or 4th line center who is contributing to the success of the Leafs in 3-5 years I really don't care what round he was drafted in. It's all about putting together a winning team and to me, that's the bottom line. Again, I understand the expectations of higher round picks but many first rounders don't even make the NHL never mind become top 6 forwards or top 4 defencemen.

You can get 3rd/4th liners for under 2 mil in salary in free agency.Would you trade your 1st round pick for Jay Mcclement type player? Ofcourse not.

Therefore it is not wise to use a 1st round pick on a player who only has potential to be a 3rd/4th liner

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I was in Switzerland when the draft occurred, first missed draft in years for me. But if I were here, I would have said move back, get 2 second rd picks if we could. There are some 2nd rounders that would compare easily to Gauthier, that is if someone wanted to move up. Behind the draft, anyone have a link?

 

[Stephen]

I understand everyone's anticipation for success after a first round pick in the draft. However it's all a matter of perspective. Honestly , if Gauthier for example, becomes a decent 3rd or 4th line center who is contributing to the success of the Leafs in 3-5 years I really don't care what round he was drafted in. It's all about putting together a winning team and to me, that's the bottom line. Again, I understand the expectations of higher round picks but many first rounders don't even make the NHL never mind become top 6 forwards or top 4 defencemen.

Nothing personal, but your opinion on this couldn't be more ill-informed.

Of course it matters that Gauthier was picked in the first round, and it would be a disaster if we got a 3rd or 4th liner out of him. You can get a big bodied defensive center who can play a limited role for you easier than buying a coke at a vending machine. Steckel, McClement, those kinds of players are traded for 6th round picks and signed in free agency without having to waste 1st round picks and years of development time and money.

You're competing in a finite 30 team league with a finite amount of talent to go around. If you mess around with crappy picks once in a while, you can still win despite them, but if you draft 4-5 4th liners in a row in the draft, your talent pipeline is going to run dry and you'll look like the Calgary Flames in no time. Meanwhile someone else who is smarter than you is going to scoop up the talent you were too dumb to pick for yourself and you'll be left in the dust.

Look no further than Scott Thornton, drafted 3rd overall in 1989. Yeah he was "fine" in the sense that he became an average NHLer, but other teams were busy picking up actually useful players after him.