Post-Game Talk: 11/16/17 | VGK 5 @ Canucks 2

[valkynax]

Long term, yes. Next season? Hmm.. wouldn't bet on it. Hope for it, but not betting. 167 lbs. See if he is capable of handling the grind of the season.

Not really a lot of long term answers on D from within. In the past 9 drafts (Gillis and Benning), since 2008, there have been 5 players selected in the first 3 rounds. Sauve in 2008 Rd 2, KConn in 2009 Rd 3, Tryamkin in 2014 Rd 3, Brisebois in 2015 Rd 3, and Juolevi 2016 in Rd 1.

Are we really banking on McEneny and Chatfield, a pair of undrafted guys, along with Subban?

Gudbranson, the team will drop out of the playoff race, so it should be clear to management to unload him well before the TDL.
Edler, he has a full NTC. Earliest he gets moved is at the draft. It's about contract. At the draft, he's 1 week away from being able to sign an extension which is what he will want before he leaves. Deal would have to be agreed to in principle before he waives his NTC.
If they deal Tanev, they need a young Dman in return. Like, if TB calls for him, have to ask for Callen Foote.

If they deal Tanev it will be Tanev + XXX for something like E. Kane.

Benning will do anything to save his own sorry ass.

 

[WTG]

Gudbranson is a puck magnet

21 shot attempts against ES, in a game where we had 49 shot attempts against ES

 

[sting101]

Gudbranson is a puck magnet

21 shot attempts against ES, in a game where we had 49 shot attempts against ES

In real numbers
Hutton Gudbranson were 8 shots for and 13 against
Del Zotto and Biega had 4 for and 9 against
Edler Pouliot 8 for 7 against but 3 were in the back of the net

According to corsi edler and Pouliot were actually good when the reality is they sucked badly.

 

[petrishriekandgo]

How many F'n flyby's by Canucks led to Vegas goals tonight... all of them? If not being physical, not taking the body and not finishing checks is why Virtanen is sitting I would think Green is going to ice only Nilsson for the next game because from what I saw... they all have Virtanen flu.

Horrible...

 

[WTG]

In real numbers
Hutton Gudbranson were 8 shots for and 13 against
Del Zotto and Biega had 4 for and 9 against
Edler Pouliot 8 for 7 against but 3 were in the back of the net

According to corsi edler and Pouliot were actually good when the reality is they sucked badly.

Yes, because you can only play badly if you were a - in the plus minus department.

Gudbranson can't move the puck out of the zone to save his life, meaning that he will almost always be a minus player. He had a bad game tonight, to the standard of a 3 million dollar defenseman. Which is the standard I choose to hold him to. The reason he is a bad corsi player is BECAUSE he can't transition the puck.

 

[The Extrapolater]

The final score seems a little out of hand, 5-2, but excepting Pouliot's major gaff in the third, this is a largely even game (not counting empty netters).
The Canucks fought back from a 2-0 deficit, and were only behind by a goal with moments to go in the game until that slip up by Pouliot. And then the wheels fell off a little, but until that moment, the Canucks were having a solid game.
On the whole, whenever the Knights got the lead, they shut down the neutral zone, and always tried to outnumber the Canucks in the corners (in the Knights own zone), which gives the impression the Knights were in full control of the game. But the Canucks got chances due to effort, and this was a mostly 50/50 game right up until there was five minutes left to go.
It was a tough game, and the sort that could've gone either way, because both teams faced each other with the same sort of tenacity. It was about which team cracked first under the sustained pressure. It was the Canucks this time. Next time it could be the opposing team.

Most of the play was 50/50, and that's reflected in the on-ice stats. Some players stood out though.

• Gudbransson stood out but not in a good way. There was a sequence in the third where he was chasing an opposing player in the corner, as he's apt to do every game, and the Knights player fell down. Somehow, the Knights player managed to fall, and then get back up, and still skate out of the corner with the puck. Entirely indicative of Gudbransson's play on the whole. A complete inability to recover loose pucks, leading to scoring chances against, over and over again.
  
• Sutter seems like he's playing well, but he still manages to spend so much more time in his own zone than in the opponents. He has such blazing speed, and gets off a scoring chance or two every game, but when I check the stat sheet, it's always the same damn story. He's buried in scoring chances against. Just unfathomable, but then I remember all of Sutter's scoring chances off the rush lead to two on one or three on two rushes going the other way. Sutter's attacking full-speed mindset is almost always putting his own team out of position to defend after he gives up the puck. And unlike Horvat, his line doesn't score nearly enough to make up for this liability offense.
• Gaunce had a solid game. He played mostly in the opponent's zone, and even got a grade A scoring chance. It'd be nice if he could finish off those sorts of chances, but otherwise, there's not much else to complain about.
• Edler and Pouliot were fine, but for that third Knight's goal. That was a bad look for them, but otherwise, they spent almost the whole game attacking. They did get a severe amount of offensive zone starts, but I don't actually put much stock in that stat, especially for d-men, as over the long haul, any difference zone starts have on on-ice stats is negligible.

 

[valkynax]

The final score seems a little out of hand, 5-2, but excepting Pouliot's major gaff in the third, this is a largely even game (not counting empty netters).
The Canucks fought back from a 2-0 deficit, and were only behind by a goal with moments to go in the game until that slip up by Pouliot. And then the wheels fell off a little, but until that moment, the Canucks were having a solid game.
On the whole, whenever the Knights got the lead, they shut down the neutral zone, and always tried to outnumber the Canucks in the corners (in the Knights own zone), which gives the impression the Knights were in full control of the game. But the Canucks got chances due to effort, and this was a mostly 50/50 game right up until there was five minutes left to go.
It was a tough game, and the sort that could've gone either way, because both teams faced each other with the same sort of tenacity. It was about which team cracked first under the sustained pressure. It was the Canucks this time. Next time it could be the opposing team.

Most of the play was 50/50, and that's reflected in the on-ice stats. Some players stood out though.

• Gudbransson stood out but not in a good way. There was a sequence in the third where he was chasing an opposing player in the corner, as he's apt to do every game, and the Knights player fell down. Somehow, the Knights player managed to fall, and then get back up, and still skate out of the corner with the puck. Entirely indicative of Gudbransson's play on the whole. A complete inability to recover loose pucks, leading to scoring chances against, over and over again.
  
• Sutter seems like he's playing well, but he still manages to spend so much more time in his own zone than in the opponents. He has such blazing speed, and gets off a scoring chance or two every game, but when I check the stat sheet, it's always the same damn story. He's buried in scoring chances against. Just unfathomable, but then I remember all of Sutter's scoring chances off the rush lead to two on one or three on two rushes going the other way. Sutter's attacking full-speed mindset is almost always putting his own team out of position to defend after he gives up the puck. And unlike Horvat, his line doesn't score nearly enough to make up for this liability offense.
• Gaunce had a solid game. He played mostly in the opponent's zone, and even got a grade A scoring chance. It'd be nice if he could finish off those sorts of chances, but otherwise, there's not much else to complain about.
• Edler and Pouliot were fine, but for that third Knight's goal. That was a bad look for them, but otherwise, they spent almost the whole game attacking. They did get a severe amount of offensive zone starts, but I don't actually put much stock in that stat, especially for d-men, as over the long haul, any difference zone starts have on on-ice stats is negligible.

I highly doubt it. This team is not known to be clutch, at all.

And this is magnified by the complete lack of elite talent outside of Brock and Bo.

 

[jigsaw99]

besides the goalies. all the Swedes on the team is sucking big time. Better hold off on getting Petterson over here to learn lazy hockey from them.

 

[JuniorNelson]

Isn't Vegas ahead of the Canucks in the standings?

Yes. My point is they aren't respected. If the Canucks were respectful they'd play like it. Remember the Pittsburgh game?

The question of where this is coming from is fairly profound, in Canucks terms. To use Mr.Benning's term, it's foundational. Somehow, the Canucks became arrogant. They think pretty highly of themselves. I used to forgive it because I thought it was Luongo's leadership and you need a ton of attitude/confidence to be an elite goalie. Or, Gillis. It didn't go with them, though. Canucks have remained pretty smug despite a year of Tortorella holding up the mirror. Desjardins tried to beat it out of them but didn't have the street creds. Green has had them skating well but they still embrace game off syndrome too much. Why?

My personal theory/internet rant? It's the owner. His "Hahaha, aren't we cool?" personality has dripped down on everybody. How easy is it to agree with a boss that says we're great? I bet they sing the Lego song every morning in the boardroom. You cannot fault Frankie for really digging his toy/team. Anyone would be cheerful and upbeat. Other teams channel this energy into results. Somehow, the Canucks bliss out on some games and drop them. It costs them. They should fix it.

 

[terrible dee]

Yes. My point is they aren't respected. If the Canucks were respectful they'd play like it. Remember the Pittsburgh game?

The question of where this is coming from is fairly profound, in Canucks terms. To use Mr.Benning's term, it's foundational. Somehow, the Canucks became arrogant. They think pretty highly of themselves. I used to forgive it because I thought it was Luongo's leadership and you need a ton of attitude/confidence to be an elite goalie. Or, Gillis. It didn't go with them, though. Canucks have remained pretty smug despite a year of Tortorella holding up the mirror. Desjardins tried to beat it out of them but didn't have the street creds. Green has had them skating well but they still embrace game off syndrome too much. Why?

My personal theory/internet rant? It's the owner. His "Hahaha, aren't we cool?" personality has dripped down on everybody. How easy is it to agree with a boss that says we're great? I bet they sing the Lego song every morning in the boardroom. You cannot fault Frankie for really digging his toy/team. Anyone would be cheerful and upbeat. Other teams channel this energy into results. Somehow, the Canucks bliss out on some games and drop them. It costs them. They should fix it.

Wow! You've really just described what's wrong with the PEOPLE of Vancouver, that artificial confidence to make up for obvious deficiencies has been a trademark of the Vancouverite for years

My takeaways from the game

-Eriksson is trash, absolute trash

-Gulbranson is garbage absolute garbage

-THANK GOD WERE LOSING AGAIN, without more top end talent, specifically at center and depth talent (doesn't have to be high end) at defence this team is going

 

[terrible dee]

If Edler skates any damn slower he is going to moving backwards.

I remember an interview last season where he says "I don't skate in the offseason"
Well its clearly showing.
Dude is so slow I thought my television was freezing.

Edler is lazy, he's always been lazy (I once had to hold the door for him in Blaine because he was talking on his phone and had just bought a coffee, I closed the door and saw his giant frame on the other side of the gas station entrance looking at me like
"What am I going to do! You've stranded me!" So I opened the door for him, he wasn't a jerk and said "Thanks" but you get the feeling this was a guy who played his parents like a fiddle.

The whole reason he won't accept a trade is that he's too lazy to move, it has NOTHING to do with hockey, that's why Torts hated him.

He's probably a good guy, but he's the worst kind of veteran leader you could have,

He needs to be forced to leave

 

[terrible dee]

A playmaker for Brock, would that be Pettersson next year?

Heh, Saturday the Blues will absolutely DESTROY us.

wwww
Brock seems to be quite the playmaker himself,

And TBH a little wasted on the wing, the guy MAKES THINGS HAPPEN and takes care of his own responsibilities,

I'd LOVE to see them pull a Linden and move him to center, We would be sacrificing his being open to shoot, but we would be gaining his creation of offense in the middle of the ice, one benefit outweighs the other

A team hasn't really arrived till they have solidified their center position, I see all the qualities in Brock necessary to excel at that position, then let Petterson worry about getting open, Bo's playmaking hasn't really blown me away and though I think he's great, he looks like 2nd line all the way

Try Brock in the middle, I guarantee he will make things happen from that position, improve the team defensively and make those around him better. The team will start to take on his identity from that position because the top center sets the tone for his whole team

He's wasted on the wing

 

[terrible dee]

He's in Siberia isn't he? Traktor Chelyaninsk?

IS HE?!?!?!?

YEEEEAAAH!!!

You watch! I predicted my Vey would return!

I hope he's back in time for my annual Linden Vey Christmas Limerick! That was a 3-year tradition he had,

 

[terrible dee]

Same with Granlund, same with Eriksson

Eriksson has GOT to come out of the line up he is the definition of useless

 

[ItalianCanuck1]

What's happening with Alex Edler?

He's been terrible in the last few games.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Eriksson has GOT to come out of the line up he is the definition of useless

He is a serious candidate to sit out on merit but unfortunately this is a contract year for the gm and Loui is owed $30 million over the next five years. If Green sits Loui out in this situation he's got some testiculos gigantes

 

[carolinacanuck]

haven't seen ALL the games and missed last night's other than the hi-lites. but it appears like markstrom just isn't making the big saves when they need them. i'm losing confidence in him. is my assessment far off?

 

[Melvin]

Yes, because you can only play badly if you were a - in the plus minus department.

Gudbranson can't move the puck out of the zone to save his life, meaning that he will almost always be a minus player. He had a bad game tonight, to the standard of a 3 million dollar defenseman. Which is the standard I choose to hold him to. The reason he is a bad corsi player is BECAUSE he can't transition the puck.

That he finished plus one is amazing though.

Must be difficult trying to defend with those giant horseshoes he has strapped to him. Explains a lot

 

[tantalum]

Travis Green "We don't have a team that can play average". Are you trying to tell me this isn't a cup contender?

You trying to tell me they played average?


And did someone say the Canucks were having a solid game up to the Pouliot giveaway? Wow. No they weren't. Outside of a span of 5 or so minutes in the second they were easily the second best team on the ice last night. They generated next to nothing against a ECHL goaltender including when tied and down by 1.

 

[Pip]

Edler is lazy, he's always been lazy (I once had to hold the door for him in Blaine because he was talking on his phone and had just bought a coffee, I closed the door and saw his giant frame on the other side of the gas station entrance looking at me like
"What am I going to do! You've stranded me!" So I opened the door for him, he wasn't a jerk and said "Thanks" but you get the feeling this was a guy who played his parents like a fiddle.

The whole reason he won't accept a trade is that he's too lazy to move, it has NOTHING to do with hockey, that's why Torts hated him.

He's probably a good guy, but he's the worst kind of veteran leader you could have,

He needs to be forced to leave

Edler has been a good soldier for this team for years. He plays big minutes against top player on a nightly basis. Calling him lazy is a bit disrespectful imo.

The definition of lazy is Vanek. No playoff team is going to give anything decent for him.

 

[cc]

After edler's disaster of a first period, it looks like they reduced the pairing's defensive zone starts so it looked like he was sheltered somewhat. I don't think he's lazy but his movements are too slow right now

 

[The Extrapolater]

You trying to tell me they played average?


And did someone say the Canucks were having a solid game up to the Pouliot giveaway? Wow. No they weren't. Outside of a span of 5 or so minutes in the second they were easily the second best team on the ice last night. They generated next to nothing against a ECHL goaltender including when tied and down by 1.

Yes, someone did say that. That was me. I said that.

And I'll say it again: there weren't a whole lot of grade A chances either way. Both teams were constantly pressuring the puck carrier. Scoring opportunities were few. The Knights capitalized on one more of theirs than Vancouver did of their own. But the Canucks broke down a little with five minutes to go, and allowed one more empty netter. That can happen in these sorts of games.

Do I think it was a great game by the Canucks? Not particularly. But it was an even game for the most part. And the Canucks were solid for all but five minutes worth of hockey.

They should've looked for ways to draw defenders out of the corners whenever they got the puck into the Knights' zone by having having their own skaters off the puck go hard to the net, because the Knights tended to outnumber the Canucks' puck carriers in the Knights' zone; the Canucks scored two goals in quick succession in the second period doing just that, but got away from this strategy in the third.

Then again, that early third period goal by the Knights allowed them to trap the rest of the game. The Canucks were able to beat the trap a few times in the third, but had some difficulty sustaining pressure in the Knights' zone. Again, that was because they let themselves get outnumbered in the corners.

Neither team are world beaters. And the score could've gone the other way depending on puck bounces. Vegas got lucky near the end, and got an insurance goal. That's all that happened.

 

[Hit the post]

Do I think it was a great game by the Canucks? Not particularly. But it was an even game for the most part. And the Canucks were solid for all but five minutes worth of hockey.

Opposition was an expansion club with an awful GM. Playing "even" with them is hardly much of an accomplishment IMHO.

 

[tantalum]

I'll guess we'll agree to disagree because the Canucks were not solid at all, nor was it a particularly even game in my eyes. They managed 21 shots on net while facing a weak ECHL goaltender. They had 5 shots on goal in the third when they trailed by one. 1 shot the last 4 or 5 minutes of the game. My view is the completely opposite....outside of 5 minutes in the second they were terrible.

Vegas didn't get lucky. They outworked the Canucks and quite frankly they have more goal scoring talent up front.

 

[krutovsdonut]

I'll guess we'll agree to disagree because the Canucks were not solid at all, nor was it a particularly even game in my eyes. They managed 21 shots on steam with an ECHL goaltender. They had 5 shots on goal in the third when they trailed by one. 1 shot the last 4 or 5 minutes of the game. My view is the completely opposite....outside of 5 minutes in the second they were terrible.

Vegas didn't get lucky. They outworked the Canucks and quite frankly they have more goal scoring talent up front.

agreed

we played an east west game against a goalie with a recent save percentage of .800 because nobody was willing to be patient and get dirty breaking down the vegas dmen to go straight to the net, or to just take shots. we made a push in the second but otherwise were trying ineptly to finesse a solid defensive effort..

in retrospect this was a game for virtanen