Post-Game Talk: 10-13-1. "A bunch of donkeys on skates"

[brs03]

A new GM needs to be brought in real soon.

I suspect that the Caps could be sellers, and I do not know if George knows how to sell. History says he does not and won't.

I don't know why you say he doesn't know how. He's a good trader on the whole, and he's sold off pieces plenty of times. What you might fairly doubt is whether he'll be willing to, but he certainly has the ability to do so.

 

[txpd]

the first thing i saw on the power play last night was green to ov. ov to green. green to ov. ov to backstrom. backstrom to ov for a one timer. this was what you were saying wasnt happening.

at 2-0 i went to help my wife with something. that said. the pk that is game planned to keep green from shooting is very often NOT game planned to keep carlson or kundratek from shooting just because they are in the same spot in the system. thats like saying that the pk was defending johansson as if he were ovechkin because he stands in the same spot on pp2.

 

[RandyHolt]

the first thing i saw on the power play last night was green to ov. ov to green. green to ov. ov to backstrom. backstrom to ov for a one timer. this was what you were saying wasnt happening.

at 2-0 i went to help my wife with something. that said. the pk that is game planned to keep green from shooting is very often NOT game planned to keep carlson or kundratek from shooting just because they are in the same spot in the system. thats like saying that the pk was defending johansson as if he were ovechkin because he stands in the same spot on pp2.

Yeah actually it looked like what I would call closer to NHL elite grade passing than I had seen in some time. Locker said Oates worked on the PP for an hour yesterday. And it showed.

Indeed teams may defend the umbrella differently based on our personnel, but I think its not going to be much - still in a 2 2 collapsing on the guy in the slot. Teams do not think only Ovi or Green can shoot the puck.

That PP2 showing was so dynamic and happened so fast, I highly doubt the PKers had time to adjust to anything. They may have been more stunned than me to not see Ovi on PP1.

 

[ChibiPooky]

As Dr Hand would say, we will probably, squeak by.

Heck, Bruce and Dale both made it in on the last day possible to do so.

When half the teams make the playoffs, I think almost any team no matter their record can still make the playoffs halfway through the season.

The playoffs are what, a paltry ****ing 6 points away? I don't know, I never look at the standings until the last month of the season. Ovi has barely laced up his skates. Laich easily our 2nd best scoring winger, hasn't yet played. The goalies cannot get much worse. We have Hammer bag skating keeping everyone else motivated on D ahead of him. Oates can't get any happier with his losses. Panthers twice, a lock for 4 free points.

The problem is bigger than this season and making the playoffs, its George's lack of vision on how to construct a team. He avoids significant roster trades, experienced coaches that threaten his job security; trades where he feels like he is not looting another GM, even if he ends up stuck with the flawed player that amazingly someone had interest in. He rewards players being good in the locker room and off the ice more than their on ice performance. He can play hard ball with his own players. I could go on.

Anyone else read the bolded and facepalm because he's right?

 

[BTCG]

I don't think the drafting has been as you stated, fine. Too many busts i the first round (Gordon, Fehr, Eminger, Schultz, Pokulok, Finley, Gustafsson, Godfrey, Bourque). But I agree with you, if your tactic is picking the best player available, sometimes you need to make hockeytrades (not deadline-moves to bolster the roster for the playoffs) if the pieces aren't fitting. When was the last time GMGM traded for a young roster player in expense of a young drafted rosterplayer?

You left out Beech and Boynton... who re-entered and went on to play with the Bruins, I believe.

AND... we have have gotten zilch out of later rounds... save Perrault.... and it's this that tells the real tale.

BTW- the last time we traded a top asset, the player was Beech... and we all know how that turned out.

 

[BTCG]

This team was looking to make the playoffs and teams in that mindset do not trade away players for futures for the most part.

Sometimes teams don't think they are likely to make the playoffs, sell off players for futures, and then get better and make the playoffs but teams who actually think they are going to make the playoffs rarely trade away roster players without getting roster players back.

And once they made the playoffs Hunter's coin flips were one flip away from getting to the 3rd round. Sure that means squat now but still...

I think there is a mindset alright.

Amazing to me how conditioned Caps fans have become to seeing making the playoffs as success.

 

[txpd]

we got mike ribeiro out of the later rounds. cody eakin. we got fedorov out of the later rounds. teddy ruth. we got corvo from the later rounds. oskar osala.

currently neuvirth was not a first round pick. neither was orlov. kundratec came in a trade for bouchard who was not a first round pick.

you are also forgetting about beagle who went beyond the late rounds straight into undrafted as well as cam schilling.

 

[Halpysback*]

No, we got Corvo out of a 2011 2nd round pick

 

[BTCG]

we got mike ribeiro out of the later rounds. cody eakin. we got fedorov out of the later rounds. teddy ruth. we got corvo from the later rounds. oskar osala.

currently neuvirth was not a first round pick. neither was orlov. kundratec came in a trade for bouchard who was not a first round pick.

But you told me you don't think much of Ribeiro.

And in truth, I've watched him for years, and he's an up & down player... streaky. Currently, he looks pretty good.

Corvo... nothing for nothing.

Feds... the last gasp version.... hence why he wasn't retained.

 

[DanTHEMan71]

Anyone else read the bolded and facepalm because he's right?

Yes. But what's even more sad is that I'm so used to that fact being true that I didn't even faceplam and had no urge to argue.

 

[Silky mitts]

The 2nd saddest thing is Ribiero is their most tradeable asset among forwards. The saddest thing is Wolski might be 2nd. Just a bad culture.

 

[BTCG]

The 2nd saddest thing is Ribiero is their most tradeable asset among forwards. The saddest thing is Wolski might be 2nd. Just a bad culture.

When your owner is the NHL version of Todd (toad) Hoffman... what do you expect?

 

[ChibiPooky]

The saddest thing IMO is that there's not really one thing you can point to as the worst problem. They have fresh blood, new coach, etc... I think what they need now is a new vision at the top and a new GM to execute it... and a lot of time. This isn't going to be a quick turnaround. We're in for a few years of pain.

 

[Ajax1995]

I think there is a mindset alright.

Amazing to me how conditioned Caps fans have become to seeing making the playoffs as success.

This isn't a Caps thing but an NHL thing. Teams as a general rule who believe they are going to make the playoffs rarely sell off soon to be UFA's for futures.

11 other teams didn't make it any farther than the Caps did last year so using the miracle of 20/20 hindsight they should have all traded away any UFAs they didn't resign apparently...

 

[BTCG]

This isn't a Caps thing but an NHL thing. Teams as a general rule who believe they are going to make the playoffs rarely sell off soon to be UFA's for futures.

11 other teams didn't make it any farther than the Caps did last year so using the miracle of 20/20 hindsight they should have all traded away any UFAs they didn't resign apparently...

Of course, that's true.

But let's not sweep this under the rug: the team, at one point, was close. And the finishing touches were never applied: they were beyond George.

And ... it all has slipped away.

 

[BTCG]

The saddest thing IMO is that there's not really one thing you can point to as the worst problem. They have fresh blood, new coach, etc... I think what they need now is a new vision at the top and a new GM to execute it... and a lot of time. This isn't going to be a quick turnaround. We're in for a few years of pain.

And that is the truth of the situation.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I sit here and read some people suggesting a rebuild. Sorry? WTF are you people thinking? This is not a team that needs to tank and rebuild.

This is a franchise that needs to figure out one single thing to get it back on track. How do you turn around Ovechkin's career?



There will be no tanking on purpose this time around, but I do believe a major trade needs to happen, the GM needs to be fired and a new culture and vision must be adopted. The roster isn't going to be torn down and rebuilt at this point though....


The Caps won't be sellers unless they're eliminated from playoff contention and even then, it will be the short term players who might be sold off.



Anyone else hearing rumors that Ovy and Ribeiro aren't getting along?

 

[swimmer77]

Stay the Course

coach Adam Oates: "The way we're playing I think is the way to do it. You fight through it, you stay with it."

And Poti played a great game.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Making the playoffs is a must for team management. That playoff $$ is where they recoup a lot of losses from the regular season. It's not that Caps fans are conditioned to cheer that we simply made the playoffs. Some of us understand the business drivers behind that logic. Besides, once you get in, a team can get hot and make a run. Happens almost every single year.

 

[g00n]

Of course the season is not mathematically over, but as I pointed out in last night's GDT we are about at the equivalent of late November in terms of games typically played in a full season. That's about the time of year Hanlon was fired. That's about the time of year when BB's losing streak nearly got him fired 2 years ago. It's about the time BB was eventually fired the next year, iirc. And the reason is, obviously, you can't wait much longer to have a realistic chance to make up so much ground (incredibly high winning percentage required the rest of the way, with a new "system" in place to boot).

The AO era Caps always got up for Pens games. If they don't get up tomorrow night, it probably isn't going to happen and you really can start talking about rebuilding.

Personally, I'm not seeing the desperation from the players and coaches. I don't know if they realize time is running out quickly. Oates seems like he's making the opposite move you'd expect in a lot of cases. It's almost like he's trying to break the players out of their comfort zones. I wonder if they've already written this season off as a "reset", but can't admit it publicly.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

I sit here and read some people suggesting a rebuild. Sorry? WTF are you people thinking? This is not a team that needs to tank and rebuild.

This is a franchise that needs to figure out one single thing to get it back on track. How do you turn around Ovechkin's career?



There will be no tanking on purpose this time around, but I do believe a major trade needs to happen, the GM needs to be fired and a new culture and vision must be adopted. The roster isn't going to be torn down and rebuilt at this point though....


The Caps won't be sellers unless they're eliminated from playoff contention and even then, it will be the short term players who might be sold off.



Anyone else hearing rumors that Ovy and Ribeiro aren't getting along?

The point isn't to sell off every asset that has value, but to sell off expiring players plus a few others with value to change the complexion of the team going forward and increase cap flexibility.

It would be more of a reload than a re-build.

Let's say you tank this year, get a Mackinnon/Barkov/Lindholm/Monahan and several additional draft picks in what is a loaded draft. There's a scoring line center of the future, plus a loaded farm system. You could easily use that farm system plus the extra cap flexibility to have a better team next year with a completely different complexion, yet still with Ovechkin, Backstrom, Alzner, Carlson, etc.

 

[ChibiPooky]

Anyone else hearing rumors that Ovy and Ribeiro aren't getting along?

No, but if it's true, isn't that multiple players and/or coaches he's supposedly butted heads with?

Do you think Ovechkin is a locker room problem? Nobody says so, but they'd be fools if they did...

 

[BTCG]

I sit here and read some people suggesting a rebuild. Sorry? WTF are you people thinking? This is not a team that needs to tank and rebuild.

This is a franchise that needs to figure out one single thing to get it back on track. How do you turn around Ovechkin's career?



There will be no tanking on purpose this time around, but I do believe a major trade needs to happen, the GM needs to be fired and a new culture and vision must be adopted. The roster isn't going to be torn down and rebuilt at this point though....


The Caps won't be sellers unless they're eliminated from playoff contention and even then, it will be the short term players who might be sold off.



Anyone else hearing rumors that Ovy and Ribeiro aren't getting along?

Look... I very much respect your knowledge of the game, but you're only partially right.

We need help in all 3 areas, O, D, & G.

Conventional hockey wisdom is... you don't throw a young goalie out to the wolves. Traslation: you don't ride a kid in the SCP (assuming we even make them).

Interesting rumor. Can anyone elucidate?

 

[BTCG]

No, but if it's true, isn't that multiple players and/or coaches he's supposedly butted heads with?

Do you think Ovechkin is a locker room problem? Nobody says so, but they'd be fools if they did...

My Missus is also one of the original Cap's board posters from the very 1st Cap's message board, and it's her belief that one of the main reasons Dale refused to continue was AO: he was making waves as he didn't want to play the style Dale employed.

 

[discobob]

The point isn't to sell off every asset that has value, but to sell off expiring players plus a few others with value to change the complexion of the team going forward and increase cap flexibility.

It would be more of a reload than a re-build.

Let's say you tank this year, get a Mackinnon/Barkov/Lindholm/Monahan and several additional draft picks in what is a loaded draft. There's a scoring line center of the future, plus a loaded farm system. You could easily use that farm system plus the extra cap flexibility to have a better team next year with a completely different complexion, yet still with Ovechkin, Backstrom, Alzner, Carlson, etc.

...at this point, I would heartily endorse this approach. We are pretty much at the point where this season is shot. Give it another 5 games, and unless we significantly improve, I'd say that it is definitely shot. The inability of this team to find a solution at #2C has been beyond frustrating over the past 4-5 years. We keep trying to patch the position with leftovers. This year we finally made a move, but the player is close to the sunset of his career. If we could get one of the top centers in this draft....we will set the team up for a push in 1-2 years with Kuz and Forsberg coming in....