Post-Game Talk: 10-13-1. "A bunch of donkeys on skates"

[amjay13]

the season is not officially over but it will be awfully tough to come back from this which is fine. they should be unofficially eliminated by the trade deadline and it'll be a great year to be a seller. lots of buyers and the caps have plenty of parts that other teams would be interested. selling off some parts and landing a top 5 pick may actually be the best thing to happen long term for this franchise as long as gmgm is not in charge of the mini-rebuild.

 

[amjay13]

regarding oates, new coach, 1 week training camp, etc........if backstrom and ovy are scoring, they likely aren't in this situation. at worst he deserves at least a month into next season.

 

[msrulo]

The caps are headed to 12 wins in a 48 game stretch with .250 hockey. They haven't experienced the worst part of the schedule yet. 25 wins are necessary to make the playoffs this year (doesn't include OT).

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

I posted it in the gtd, but fits here too.

Is Oates no better a coach than Cassidy?

Tough to tell with Ovechkin doing his best Manti Te'o's girlfriend impression.

 

[Halpysback*]

regarding oates, new coach, 1 week training camp, etc........if backstrom and ovy are scoring, they likely aren't in this situation. at worst he deserves at least a month into next season.

You mean if Ovy doesn't spend 6 games with Beagle and Crabb?

 

[Liberati0n*]

Interesting Q

Oates obviously had a lot more pedigree coming into it, both as a player and as a coach.

But he'd never been an actual head coach.

Honestly, the more important point is that the same guy hired them. The problem lies therein.

Ted hired Cassidy. McPhee hired Oates.

 

[tycoonheart]

They'll turn it around. And once they get going, they'll get going. I'm staying optimistic. For now.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Ted hired Cassidy. McPhee hired Oates.

I'm not buying that. McPhee fired Wilson. He was totally involved in hiring Cassidy. I know Ted tried to deflect that Cassidy debacle away from George, but GM was still the GM.

And honestly....if Ted *did* bullrush his way to getting Cassidy hired, what does that say about McPhee's abilities to stand up for his own role?

LOL, we just had one owner (Snyder) admit he FIRED a GM (Cerrato) for allowing him to hire someone not qualified for the coaching role (Zorn).

Slice the Cassidy experience any way you want, its on GMGM too, as much as anyone.....

That said, I dont see Oates at all like Cassidy. But his results may end up as bad, or worse.

 

[Liberati0n*]

It's an established fact that Ted picked Cassidy. McPhee wanted Hanlon at the time, which may not be any better.

 

[Ridley Simon]

You mean if Ovy doesn't spend 6 games with Beagle and Crabb?

Many said that all these offensive players leaving town (Flash, Semin, etc etc) were products of the Boudreau system. Green etc too.

Well, so probably was Ovechkin.

Caps are in deep trouble as a team. Its a lot worse than just this year, I am afraid.

 

[Ridley Simon]

It's an established fact that Ted picked Cassidy. McPhee wanted Hanlon at the time, which may not be any better.

He still let Ted bowl him over, and he obviously wasnt very vocal with his wishes.

And we saw the Hanlon results.

 

[Halpysback*]

Many said that all these offensive players leaving town (Flash, Semin, etc etc) were products of the Boudreau system. Green etc too.

Well, so probably was Ovechkin.

Caps are in deep trouble as a team. Its a lot worse than just this year, I am afraid.

It doesn't matter. Their point totals may have been inflated but they had offensive skill. Offensive skill put with offensive skill leads to people on the same page and plays being converted more effectively.

Look at ducks top 9. Overall they are much more offensively skilled than we are.

 

[Capitlols]

I really wonder what's going to happen first. A coaching change or core player trade. This ain't getting better.

 

[Liberati0n*]

I'll feel really bad for Oates if he ends up fired.

 

[Langway]

They'll probably give Laich some time to play saviour (ha!). Maybe they'll make an inconsequential trade or two. I don't think there's much of an appetite for major trades at this point in the season and, really, it needs to be the end of GMGM before anything else anyway. Unfortunately, I have zero faith in Leonsis/Patrick decision-making.

 

[MoJoSauce]

Fail for Nail! errrr MacKinnon

 

[TheFountainhead]

Caps are in deep trouble as a team. Its a lot worse than just this year, I am afraid.

A lot depends on if Ovechkin and Backstrom can turn it around. Ovechkin has been terrible obviously, but Backstrom's also been really, really bad as well despite the fact that he's put up a respectable amount of points. He's been absurdly timid this season, a byproduct of the concussion last season and neck injury in the KHL undoubtedly so some rope is probably appropriate, but if he cant find his game at some point in the relative near future (and I'm speaking in a manner of months), we're certainly in for a few down seasons minimum. If he can get back to the form he showed last season pre-concussion and Ovie can regain even the form he showed when he scored 38, I think the Caps can be a playoff team as soon as next season and there's actually a path for them to be REALLY good in a few seasons (I'm at the point now where I'm just praying that Ovie can carve out a post prime Iginla type of role for himself going forward.)

I'm assuming a calamitous season is staring us in the face and a top 5 pick likely gives us an impact forward that should be able to contribute in some capacity in two seasons, Kuznetsov comes over after 2014 and Forsberg has the makings of a top six forward at worst in his prime (although I wouldn't be surprised if his ascension to that role took a bit of time). Even if those kids aren't ready to be stars right away, that's an awful lot of young talent to be adding to a roster with pretty good individual talent; that influx of talent is cheap and should leave some room for further additions to the roster for supplemental purposes. A few smart signings/trades could have this team looking COMPLETELY different in a pretty short amount of time.

 

[Calicaps]

A lot depends on if Ovechkin and Backstrom can turn it around. Ovechkin has been terrible obviously, but Backstrom's also been really, really bad as well despite the fact that he's put up a respectable amount of points. He's been absurdly timid this season, a byproduct of the concussion last season and neck injury in the KHL undoubtedly so some rope is probably appropriate, but if he cant find his game at some point in the relative near future (and I'm speaking in a manner of months), we're certainly in for a few down seasons minimum. If he can get back to the form he showed last season pre-concussion and Ovie can regain even the form he showed when he scored 38, I think the Caps can be a playoff team as soon as next season and there's actually a path for them to be REALLY good in a few seasons (I'm at the point now where I'm just praying that Ovie can carve out a post prime Iginla type of role for himself going forward.)

I'm assuming a calamitous season is staring us in the face and a top 5 pick likely gives us an impact forward that should be able to contribute in some capacity in two seasons, Kuznetsov comes over after 2014 and Forsberg has the makings of a top six forward at worst in his prime (although I wouldn't be surprised if his ascension to that role took a bit of time). Even if those kids aren't ready to be stars right away, that's an awful lot of young talent to be adding to a roster with pretty good individual talent; that influx of talent is cheap and should leave some room for further additions to the roster for supplemental purposes. A few smart signings/trades could have this team looking COMPLETELY different in a pretty short amount of time.

All good points, and I agree this ship could be righted fairly quickly. BUT I say again, if McPhee is still making the roster decisions for this team, that opportunity you describe will go the same way that our last influx of young talent went.

GMGM has no ability to blend youth and vets nor to identify and fill holes. He's a good drafter and can get good value in trades but typically for lower-tier talent or the wrong type of player. And he's afraid to make the big move when its warranted.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Well, i guess if you're going to tank, a shortened season is the one to do it in...

We need a real TEAM architect...

 

[TheFountainhead]

All good points, and I agree this ship could be righted fairly quickly. BUT I say again, if McPhee is still making the roster decisions for this team, that opportunity you describe will go the same way that our last influx of young talent went.

GMGM has no ability to blend youth and vets nor to identify and fill holes. He's a good drafter and can get good value in trades but typically for lower-tier talent or the wrong type of player. And he's afraid to make the big move when its warranted.

I agree. He's shown zero capacity to put together a harmonious team with a recognizable, philosophical bent. Seriously, we've had so many disparate pieces over the years it's insane. Slow, puck possession forwards on the same line as speed, transition dependent forwards. Multiple stay at home defenseman in the same pairings, defensively inept puck movers playing together, fast players playing with slow players, slow players playing with somehow even slower players etc. We've tried to be a transition based team, we've tried to be a heavy forechecking team, we've tried to be a puck possession team, we've tried to be a heavily insulated and defensive team etc., all while making only cosmetic changes to the composition of the roster. We've been an inveterate mash of ill-fitting component pieces for the last decade or there about and it's the general managers' primary responsibility to set a club direction that permeates all levels of the organization that's clear and achievable. McPhee has failed miserably in that dept.

 

[TheFountainhead]

We need a real TEAM architect...

Agreed.......1000 percent.

 

[sunnydaycrash]

I'll feel really bad for Oates if he ends up fired.

Same here....I really like the guy and i think he deserves a chance with a new GM. I've said this a few times but if Oates get fired in the next week or so and McPhee is allowed to hire his 4th coach in 20 months, someone needs to pop Teddy boy right in the mouth !

 

[msrulo]

Same here....I really like the guy and i think he deserves a chance with a new GM. I've said this a few times but if Oates get fired in the next week or so and McPhee is allowed to hire his 4th coach in 20 months, someone needs to pop Teddy boy right in the mouth !

Ted thinks McPhee is a deity. We have a dillema.

 

[WcRoenick97]

Don't forget about his musical chairs with goalies. When it hasn't been a one-two year rental with a vet, it's been a new rookie every postseason.

 

[BTCG]

Theory around our house is that GMGM's job isn't in danger... as long as he's holding those pictures of Ted... who is doing.... gawd knows what?

After 15 years, you'd think that he's gotta have something on Ted.

Might be money. Ted used to complain every year... always the same thing: "we're losing $30 million a year on this team."

If the team is making money, even if it isn't a huge amount, that might spell job security for George.