Zetterberg talks about Russia

[jaster]

A law made by Russian nationalists designed to be a middle finger to Western values has citizens of the West upset.

You don't say.

As I said earlier, even with that possibly being the case, the issue is bigger than Russia. Russia is just the most recent entity to draw attention (i.e. comments from athletes) to it on the international stage.

 

[jaster]

I don't remember Zetterberg speaking out about political opponents getting persecuted in Russia or the bloody Russian war in Chechnya. Nor do I remember him speaking out about major political issues in the country of his birth or the country he has spent most of the last 10 years in.

He was specifically asked about this issue in an interview and, frankly, gave a pretty short answer. He' didn't go off for 5 minutes. I don't remember him being specifically asked about any of those other topics. Do you?

 

[jaster]

Back to the topic, homosexuals are not killed or imprisoned in Russia for being homosexuals. All you need to know really.

Are being killed or imprisoned unjustly the only wrongs in the world? Or just the only wrongs anyone should worry about?

 

[Garl]

Are being killed or imprisoned unjustly the only wrongs in the world? Or just the only wrongs anyone should worry about?

Look, homosexuals have same rights as heterosexuals in Russia. Yeah, majority of them stay in closet, that's a cultural thing. However, they can do the coming out, though there will be no attaboy reaction.

In Soviet Union they were lobotomized.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Look, homosexuals have same rights as heterosexuals in Russia. Yeah, majority of them stay in closet, that's a cultural thing. However, they can do the coming out, though there will be no attaboy reaction.

In Soviet Union they were lobotomized.

Well, for one thing, heterosexual people could have a "heterosexual pride parade" and homosexuals could not. and that'll be true for a CENTURY.

It's difficult to say that Russian homosexuals have exactly the same rights as heterosexuals. All it takes is one interpretation of a reasonably vague law and they're in serious trouble. It's, at minimum, a highly threatening law. Heterosexuals don't feel threatened in that same way—carrying out their daily life is unlikely to be viewed as promoting homosexuality, for obvious reasons. So, in a way, homosexuals have the same rights—until somebody changes their mind, and it seems like this law allows that.

(Also, if you mean to say that both heterosexuals and homosexuals would go to jail equally for promoting homosexuality, then all you've managed to show is that both parties have fewer rights than before.)

edit: and if you want to know exactly what right homosexuals are missing, it's the right to free speech. Heterosexuals retain the ability to say "Wow! My life is really awesome!" in a very public way. Homosexuals would be promoting homosexuality. This establishes a class of things that homosexuals cannot say about themselves and their lives in public for fear of punishment. There are now opinions that people cannot express in public.

 

[Jussi]

Contrary to Z, Russian athletes seem to share the view of the law, as evidenced by women's pole vault champion Yelena Isinbayeva(although IAAF went into panic mode and made her backtrack): http://www.espn.co.uk/athletics/sport/story/230531.html

Not to mention tv:



If you want discuss this in detail, the Political Discussion section has a thread on it.

 

[Brodie]

Russia has problems, they have no enough children ! should they accept to steer the country toward auto extermination ?

Russia does have problems! Specifically, incredibly high unemployment, a crippling alcoholism crisis and a very large number of orphans who now have nowhere to go because the government has cracked down on overseas adoptions. As usual, the government has decided to crack down on disempowered minority groups and "western imperialism" instead of actually trying to improve the quality of life for Russians. And since it plays to Russian nationalist fantasy and national machismo, it's working.

I don't have children but when I do, I won't care one way or the other if they're exposed to gay couples, interracial couples, trans people or any other group. I'd want them to understand and accept the diversity of human life and sexuality is part of that. And if I had a gay son, I'd celebrate him and make sure he feels accepted... **** my "family line". Is it cool to be gay? Sure, just like it's cool to be straight and cool to be bi and trans and black and female and Muslim, et al.

 

[Brodie]

Funny you mention South Africa. Because now, since Mandela and ANC took power it became a paradise! Population is in poverty, 70 000 whites been killed. But who cares about results, when you have a nice warm feeling about what you do?

And yeah, of course it was a grassroots movement LOL.

Btw, why you didn't mention Afrikaaners being killed in SA? Or it doen't fit inside the ideology and so, there no line to be crossed?

I'm well aware of farm killings in South Africa and I find them just as repulsive as I do any murders, nor do I have anything but contempt for the racist policies of Julius Malema and his ilk. But those aren't statutory government policies, and if they were they wouldn't deserve to be "respected" either.

But that doesn't justify Apartheid... unless, you know, you're a racist.

Back to the topic, homosexuals are not killed or imprisoned in Russia for being homosexuals. All you need to know really.

Oh? And what exactly constitutes "propaganda" under these Russian laws? Is it legal for a gay couple to kiss in public if there happens to be minors around? Given the state of Russian law enforcement, I think this is pretty insanely off-base.

 

[icKx]

Are being killed or imprisoned unjustly the only wrongs in the world? Or just the only wrongs anyone should worry about?

Even if I were the type of person who devotes all his time to worrying about every injustice in the world that I'm powerless to remedy this law would rate quite low in the grand scheme.

How many countries in the world do you suppose are more hostile toward homosexuals than Russia? If many, then why is this law particularly deserving of so much attention?

 

[Yemack]

I wonder if Z really know what this anti gay thing really is about. I dont, but I dont think he researched on it or anything.

Things like sexual orientation and some human right condition are very closely intertwined to countries unique cultural identity and history so IMO, it's just better not to go there unless you live there and practically a citizen. If too many foreign do good-er try to bring a change to its culture that it's not really ready for yet, it could actually invoke internal resistance and back fire. Russians are proud people and I'm not sure if that's the right way to go about it... but I'm no activist so what do i know

Z's comment here is nothing out of ordinary.. but I think NHL players should keep it to themselves at times like this when Russians are preparing to host winter Olympic and will be quite sensitive about criticisms.

Anyway, in grand scheme of things, Z's comment here from this interview (?) wont matter much so it's not something we Wings fans should worry about. I'm even surprised it received this much attention at all

 

[Brodie]

How many countries in the world do you suppose are more hostile toward homosexuals than Russia? If many, then why is this law particularly deserving of so much attention?

How many are hosting the Olympics in under 6 months?