Zetterberg jumping elbow to the head on Pageau (Oct 30 game)

[DeYarmond Edison]

Principle point of contact was the shoulder. Pretty obvious.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Zetterberg is going to cut off the clearing of the glass. Pageau realizes this and turns to clear it past Zetterberg (not of the glass). Zetterberg sees this, and jumps to get any body part in front of the puck. Puck bounces of his arm, into Pageau's face, Zetterberg follows through into Pageau's face, puck trickles to Kronwall at the blue line after bouncing off Pageau.

It seems pretty clear to me. The changing of the skating line, the jumping, and the arm up are all too keep the puck in (which is exactly what happened). The follow through to the face may have been unwarranted, but if the puck is there too.... I really don't see an intent to headshot there.

Hmm... that's pretty interesting. Watching again I can see it. I think you might be onto something, actually.

 

[FlashyG]

Are you looking at the same gif? Can you honestly look at that and conclude he never left his feet simply because you can't seem them? For crying out loud you can briefly see the red stripes on his socks. Ridiculous.

What you can't tell is whether his skates left the ice before or after the initial contact.

Leaving your feet after initial contact is perfectly legal. You also can't tell what he made impact with first either.

I look at this the same as I do a goal review where Toronto gets it wrong. Sometimes even when we all suspect the ref's got it wrong there just isn't enough evidence to overrule their call.

Its very likely Zetterberg did leave his feet before making contact and its also likely that he connected with an elbow but without a camera angle that actually shows that, then the league really doesn't have any other options than to just let it go.

 

[Micklebot]

What you can't tell is whether his skates left the ice before or after the initial contact.

Leaving your feet after initial contact is perfectly legal. You also can't tell what he made impact with first either.

I look at this the same as I do a goal review where Toronto gets it wrong. Sometimes even when we all suspect the ref's got it wrong there just isn't enough evidence to overrule their call.

Its very likely Zetterberg did leave his feet before making contact and its also likely that he connected with an elbow but without a camera angle that actually shows that, then the league really doesn't have any other options than to just let it go.

First point of contact isn't relevant since they changed the rule (in 2013 I think). Main point of contact is the relevant term now, which may still be debatable, but it's pretty clear that significant contact was made with the head as it seems to be the part of his body most affected by the hit.

I am surprised that there is no other video out ther of this one. Usually, when there is a contraversial hit, which the coach went nuts over, the networks try to string together every angle they can find, but in this case we only get the one angle (I was a bit distracted during the game, but I don't even recall getting a replay of the hit, just the camera on Cameron freaking out, and Pageau's nose being attended to).

 

[jbeck5]

I hope you're not a lawyer...jeez.

I hope you aren't required to use common sense or physics at your job....jeez.


2 can play at that...

 

[jbeck5]

Principle point of contact was the shoulder. Pretty obvious.

He had a shoulder bleed.

 

[Hardyvan123]

I am a little puzzled as to why people are confused about this. Without conclusive video evidence showing the point of contact to the head and departure of the feet would you really expect DoPS to overrule the referee on the ice who had the best vantage point? Is that the standard of care you really want out of the league? Maybe conspiracy theories are just more entertaining.

also people are losing sight of the fact that Zetts blocked the puck from clearing the zone, which goes a long way to imply his intent (ie playing the puck) and not the man or the headshot, which was an inadvertent side effect of blocking the puck.

 

[Dotter]

Zetterberg is going to cut off the clearing of the glass. Pageau realizes this and turns to clear it past Zetterberg (not of the glass). Zetterberg sees this, and jumps to get any body part in front of the puck. Puck bounces of his arm, into Pageau's face, Zetterberg follows through into Pageau's face, puck trickles to Kronwall at the blue line after bouncing off Pageau.

It seems pretty clear to me. The changing of the skating line, the jumping, and the arm up are all too keep the puck in (which is exactly what happened). The follow through to the face may have been unwarranted, but if the puck is there too.... I really don't see an intent to headshot there.

Careful, logic doesn't belong here.

 

[topshelf15]

also people are losing sight of the fact that Zetts blocked the puck from clearing the zone, which goes a long way to imply his intent (ie playing the puck) and not the man or the headshot, which was an inadvertent side effect of blocking the puck.

So ,because he is intending to go for the puck ,this makes the head shot legal then

 

[topshelf15]

Careful, logic doesn't belong here.

A hab fan and a wing fan soooo, very objective

 

[topshelf15]

Zetterberg is going to cut off the clearing of the glass. Pageau realizes this and turns to clear it past Zetterberg (not of the glass). Zetterberg sees this, and jumps to get any body part in front of the puck. Puck bounces of his arm, into Pageau's face, Zetterberg follows through into Pageau's face, puck trickles to Kronwall at the blue line after bouncing off Pageau.

It seems pretty clear to me. The changing of the skating line, the jumping, and the arm up are all too keep the puck in (which is exactly what happened). The follow through to the face may have been unwarranted, but if the puck is there too.... I really don't see an intent to headshot there.

His head snaps back and he stumbles after the hit ,you have some thick goggles on

 

[nbwingsfan]

Are you looking at the same gif? Can you honestly look at that and conclude he never left his feet simply because you can't seem them? For crying out loud you can briefly see the red stripes on his socks. Ridiculous.

Even if you can conclude he left his feet (you can't), there is no definite angle that the head was the targeted and the main point of contact.

They've already indicated that they don't think the hit was clean, just that it didn't meet the criteria for further discipline.

We do have conclusive evidence of contact to the head, Pageau's nose bleeding is proof of that.

I'm confused how people can still be in denial that there was a head shot here. I can maybe accept that there is a chance Zetterberg just barely was able to drag his toe along the ice until after initial contact was made, but if your standard of care is assuming refs are infalible from accros the ice, then idk what to tell you.

Ok, so it should of been a 2min penalty, sure. He wasn't and you still won the game, move on.
Just because he had a bloody nose does not mean that the head was targeted or it was the principal point of contact. Sure he may have hit it on the follow through or after he made contact with the chest/shoulder..but this would simply lead to maybe a 2min penalty not a suspension. Which what do you know, happens to match what the NHL is saying..

 

[nbwingsfan]

He had a shoulder bleed.

Your shoulder has padding, your nose does not. Do you know how easy it is to get a nose bleed sometimes? Z could have barely hit his head and it could result in a nose bleed.

Again, need a better camera angle to tell where the principal point of contact was made.

 

[Derrty]

Cheap hit by star player goes unpunished.

Typical NHL.

 

[Micklebot]

Even if you can conclude he left his feet (you can't), there is no definite angle that the head was the targeted and the main point of contact.


Ok, so it should of been a 2min penalty, sure. He wasn't and you still won the game, move on.
Just because he had a bloody nose does not mean that the head was targeted or it was the principal point of contact. Sure he may have hit it on the follow through or after he made contact with the chest/shoulder..but this would simply lead to maybe a 2min penalty not a suspension. Which what do you know, happens to match what the NHL is saying..

If they thought it was a 2 min penalty, then they either thought he charged, or he made an illegal check to the head. They've ruled in previous cases that if the contact to the head was the result of a play that was otherwise illegal (ie charge, or interference) than it was considered avoidable contact and therefore fall under the illegal check to the head.

Personally, I'm just looking for consistency (I know it's a lost cause with the DoPS), to me, this hit had a lot of the same elements that made Stone's hit a suspension.

Avoidable? Check
Hit to the head? Check
Last min decision? Perhaps
Intent? Probably not in either case
Injury? Not really, both players would have been able to finish the game (pageau ran out of time) and played their next game
First time offender? Check

Three times last season, fines were levied rather than suspensions

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/canadiens-emelin-facing-hearing-for-hit-on-gionta/

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/scandella-fined-by-nhl-for-illegal-hit-to-head/

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/canucks-hansen-fined-5000-for-illegal-check/

What makes those a fine, Zetterberg nothing, and Stone 2 games?

Not only that, there have been lots of hits this season that looked far more malicious than either one and received nothing. There seems to be a lack of transparency as to what is and what isn't legal.

 

[The Red Line]

So ,because he is intending to go for the puck ,this makes the head shot legal then

Actually yeah. Same reason it's not a high sticking penalty when a player clips an opponent in the face when following through on a shot.

 

[nbwingsfan]

If they thought it was a 2 min penalty, then they either thought he charged, or he made an illegal check to the head. They've ruled in previous cases that if the contact to the head was the result of a play that was otherwise illegal (ie charge, or interference) than it was considered avoidable contact and therefore fall under the illegal check to the head.

Personally, I'm just looking for consistency (I know it's a lost cause with the DoPS), to me, this hit had a lot of the same elements that made Stone's hit a suspension.

Avoidable? Check
Hit to the head? Check
Last min decision? Perhaps
Intent? Probably not in either case
Injury? Not really, both players would have been able to finish the game (pageau ran out of time) and played their next game
First time offender? Check

Three times last season, fines were levied rather than suspensions

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/canadiens-emelin-facing-hearing-for-hit-on-gionta/

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/scandella-fined-by-nhl-for-illegal-hit-to-head/

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/canucks-hansen-fined-5000-for-illegal-check/

What makes those a fine, Zetterberg nothing, and Stone 2 games?

Not only that, there have been lots of hits this season that looked far more malicious than either one and received nothing. There seems to be a lack of transparency as to what is and what isn't legal.

Illegal check to the head can also just be a minor penalty. From the video we have available you can't tell how much of Pageau's head he actually got; therefore can't determine if it was the principal point of contact.

 

[Dotter]

The league just gave Detroit 2 free points as they bested TB Lightning with Zetterberg leading the charge.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Zetterberg is going to cut off the clearing of the glass. Pageau realizes this and turns to clear it past Zetterberg (not of the glass). Zetterberg sees this, and jumps to get any body part in front of the puck. Puck bounces of his arm, into Pageau's face, Zetterberg follows through into Pageau's face, puck trickles to Kronwall at the blue line after bouncing off Pageau.

It seems pretty clear to me. The changing of the skating line, the jumping, and the arm up are all too keep the puck in (which is exactly what happened). The follow through to the face may have been unwarranted, but if the puck is there too.... I really don't see an intent to headshot there.

wow.....what a massive pile of b.s.

 

[Micklebot]

Illegal check to the head can also just be a minor penalty. From the video we have available you can't tell how much of Pageau's head he actually got; therefore can't determine if it was the principal point of contact.

You know he got enough to send his head flailing back and enough to bloody his nose...