Zemgus for Captain

[Jame]

Weber wouldn't be scratched? Why? Simply because you shouldn't healthy-scratch your captain?

yes.

That would mean he's playing every night simply because he was named captian, and not due to his play, which has been suspect and scratch-worthy.

You don't scratch your 40 goal scorer either... he would be playing everynight due to his leadership, and the example he sets through his effort and work ethic. Setting the example, for the young guys.... the fact that he is flawed, less talented, is almost a bonus.

Now you've created a really a horrible situation at captain. Far worse than what we have now. Good idea, indeed.

No I haven't. No one in the lockerroom would be sitting therethinking, "Mike is playing really badly, but he's not getting sat because he's Captain...".

That's not how it works...

Weber as a player is the type of guy who can be leveraged in and out of the lineup as needed. Sometimes it's his play, sometimes it's the coaches tool to get other players time (same goes for someone like McCormick, or Flynn). As Captain, he wouldn't be leverage in/out in such ways

Weber sat a whopping 4 games...

 

[Jame]

Consistency in doing a good enough job to dress when healthy, there's nothing mythical about that. You keep ignoring that, which is why it continues to be brought up.

The myth is what you need from a captain in our scenario.
The myth is that a coaches decisions would be the same in hindsight, if the scenario were different
The myth is that talent, is a prerequisite for leadership

 

[SabreBlood]

You don't scratch your 40 goal scorer either... he would be playing everynight due to his leadership, and the example he sets through his effort and work ethic. Setting the example, for the young guys.... the fact that he is flawed, less talented, is almost a bonus.

Only if you need to twist reality to meet your own narrative, which you are superior at. If he's flawed to the point of playing himself out of the lineup, that's anything but a bonus.

No I haven't. No one in the lockerroom would be sitting therethinking, "Mike is playing really badly, but he's not getting sat because he's Captain...".

That's not how it works...

I'm going to guess you've never played organized sports. I could be wrong, of course. But this opinion is so far gone, it must be the case. Otherwise, let the reality-twisting commence.

Weber as a player is the type of guy who can be leveraged in and out of the lineup as needed. Sometimes it's his play, sometimes it's the coaches tool to get other players time (same goes for someone like McCormick, or Flynn). As Captain, he wouldn't be leverage in/out in such ways

Weber sat a whopping 4 games...

McCormick would never be scratched because he played poorly, because McCormick is consistent in his job and abilities. Weber, on the other hand..

 

[SabreBlood]

The myth is what you need from a captain in our scenario.

Your disagreement of other's opinions does not make other's opinions myth.

The myth is that a coaches decisions would be the same in hindsight, if the scenario were different

What are you talking about?

The myth is that talent, is a prerequisite for leadership

False. All that's required talent-wise, is to have enough to warrant being penciled into the lineup every night.

 

[Jame]

Only if you need to twist reality to meet your own narrative, which you are superior at. If he's flawed to the point of playing himself out of the lineup, that's anything but a bonus.

it's not really complicated...

Craig Rivet played 78 games in 09-10, he was terrible

I'm going to guess you've never played organized sports. I could be wrong, of course. But this opinion is so far gone, it must be the case. Otherwise, let the reality-twisting commence.

From Pee wee to college

sounds like you were a crappy teammate

McCormick would never be scratched because he played poorly, because McCormick is consistent in his job and abilities. Weber, on the other hand..

not the point

 

[Jame]

Your disagreement of other's opinions does not make other's opinions myth.

right, Vanek was a great choice... totally, it's all about having your best players be leaders...

What are you talking about?

The insistence that the reasons for and the action itself (benching), would be the same under a different scenario(captain)

False. All that's required talent-wise, is to have enough to warrant being penciled into the lineup every night.

so, your entire argument hinges on the 4 games Weber sat? And your perception of the reasons why.

brilliant.

 

[Beerz]

To be fair .. Weber hasn't played that poorly this year except for a stretch of games in beginning of year under Rolston ...when everyone was playing pretty horribly. I don't think a Weber as captain is entirely as absurd as most. He has the traits I look for most in a Captain

 

[SabreBlood]

it's not really complicated...

Craig Rivet played 78 games in 09-10, he was terrible

Craig Rivet's age caught up with him. That's a lot different than Mike Weber's situation. Also, the 2009-10 Sabres don't help your argument.

From Pee wee to college

Color me surprised. Reality-twisting commence.

not the point

That's the problem. It's the entire point. Ignoring it doesn't make you right. Your inability to admit being wrong is all that makes you right, here.

 

[haseoke39]

I don't think anybody's arguing that Weber doesn't have the character to be captain. I think everyone but Jame just acknowledges that there's a talent floor you have to meet to be in the discussion, and that floor is be a regular contributor. You can't lead anyone from the press box. Weber's not there.

 

[FamilyGuy716]

In hindsight Jame was wrong picking Weber as captain. What we didn't know is that Weber would be worse this year and it's hard to have a captain who is not a full time player.

Clearly Z should be the choice but it's probably 1 year too early for him.

 

[Jame]

Craig Rivet's age caught up with him. That's a lot different than Mike Weber's situation. Also, the 2009-10 Sabres don't help your argument.

Now you're making exceptions to your rule. classic.

Color me surprised. Reality-twisting commence.

color me surprised, the more holes poked in your argument, the more you discredit yourself with this baby nonsense.

That's the problem. It's the entire point. Ignoring it doesn't make you right. Your inability to admit being wrong is all that makes you right, here.

the entire point? Great, so McCormick is consistent in his job. Which allows for mistakes to be made in certain areas, as long as he's meeting his job description. His role. I totally agree. And Weber's job description would be vastly different if he was Captain. And you'd live with the mistakes, if he was delivering a motivated, hard working team. If he was leading by example off the ice, in the lockerroom, when things got difficult, blocking shots, giving up his body, playing injured, never taking a shift off. As CAPTAIN, he'd be viewed differently, because his role would be different

It is the entire point... you are right.

 

[Jame]

In hindsight Jame was wrong picking Weber as captain. What we didn't know is that Weber would be worse this year and it's hard to have a captain who is not a full time player.

Clearly Z should be the choice but it's probably 1 year too early for him.

Weber isn't worse this year, the team is worse... Weber is the same player he's always been.

 

[SabresFanNorthPortFL]

So back to Z because it doesn't matter who would be named captain of this mess as we discussed over and over, this team is playing 1 to 2 lines over where they should be. There are no top line players on the team, and besides a "screwed-over, don't want to be here" Moulson and Hodgson's sometimes 2nd line center capabilities, there are no top 6'ers either.

Personally, I thought Weber was a bad choice as Captain but I will agree to some of his intangibles are what a Captain should have. Someone said there needs to be a talent bar one should hit, and he's under it; that I agree with too.

As for Z, I am looking forward to his career. I think he's going to be a keeper, produce and has that aura of a winner about him. Too early for him to be Captain but he doesn't need a letter to be vocal, show enthusiasm, etc...he does that every game. He'll have a letter soon enough.

I believe the above so much I just bought his game worn 3rd jersey on Sabres.com for $502.00.....what I can't figure out, was that Adam's went for $750....hahahhaha

cheers!

 

[machpo]

I don't think anybody's arguing that Weber doesn't have the character to be captain. I think everyone but Jame just acknowledges that there's a talent floor you have to meet to be in the discussion, and that floor is be a regular contributor. You can't lead anyone from the press box. Weber's not there.

you just distilled this whole thread perfectly.