Zegras Worth From Fans..

[Gliff]

If I'm Chicago, I'd totally spend a 1st, 2nd, 3rd to get Z and Bedard together. They could lock him up for 7 years at 8.5m at that price or force Verbeek into a contract he obviously doesn't want to offer.

7x8.5 would be 4 1st rounders. I would imagine the Ducks would take the 4 1st rounders.

Offer sheet offers will not go over 5 years because of how the cap goes way up for anything longer then 5 years. If he gets an offer sheet it will likely be for 1-5 years at 8.5 mil, in which case the Ducks will match and be put in a bad situation.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

If I'm Chicago, I'd totally spend a 1st, 2nd, 3rd to get Z and Bedard together. They could lock him up for 7 years at 8.5m at that price or force Verbeek into a contract he obviously doesn't want to offer.

That would cost them 4 1sts. Total value of the contract is amortized over 5 years for compensation calculations.

 

[Ducks]

I'm pretty sure 8.5 AAV is only 1st, 2nd, 3rd.

edit: Just saw the 5 year vs 7 year thing. Gotcha.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

If I'm Chicago, I'd totally spend a 1st, 2nd, 3rd to get Z and Bedard together. They could lock him up for 7 years at 8.5m at that price or force Verbeek into a contract he obviously doesn't want to offer.

Prob just offer moore + lightning 1st + another piece or 2

 

[Ducks DVM]

If I'm Chicago, I'd totally spend a 1st, 2nd, 3rd to get Z and Bedard together. They could lock him up for 7 years at 8.5m at that price or force Verbeek into a contract he obviously doesn't want to offer.

7 years at 8.5M would be 4 1sts. You divide the total money by 5 to get the AAV for compensation.

It would need to be 7.35 x 7 to get it to 2 1sts + 2nd + 3rd, which is an easy match.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Drysdale really feels like the Drysdale camp saying “look how good he was!”, and Verbeek saying “we have no idea what that shoulder injury has done to your overall game, and history has shown we won’t know for another 6-12 months”.

"Hey, the guy drafted right before me got 8x8. Let's go 7.5x8 and call it a day!" LoL!

 

[Hamilton Bulldogs]

Honestly, I checked out when your lead was that Carlsson in his 3rd year would be “lucky”, as a significantly better player at 18, behind ONLY the Sedins in combined regular season and playoff points in the Swedish league as an 18 year old, to match Zegras’ production. All the other stuff ignores that none of those players has to be better than Zegras to ask for more money.

I am using terms like “potentially”, “could”, “might”, and the like. You are refusing to read that.

Im curious where you think Zellweger would have been drafted if he was a couple weeks older.

Your tweet is also rubbish. We don’t know that he wasn’t offered that contract. I would also say every single one of those players is better at actual hockey that Zegras, and for several it’s in AINEC territory.

How many points did the Sedins have in their third year in the NHL? less than 65! Does that mean that Zegras is bound for the HOF? No but it shows that what Zegras has been doing is fairly difficult and there isn't 3-4 guys in the pipeline that could do that.

They can ask for more money and if they're worth more than Zegras (not likely in most cases) you pay them. Most teams have 3-4 guys that are paid very well and they build around those 4. I don't see how Zegras isn't in that four for you.

Potential is a nice word to use but it's very unlikely you'll have more than 4 guys better or even close to Zegras. Those listed might be better at "actual" hockey but unless you have 4 of them in your prospect pool there's really no justification for not paying zegras his worth.a

 

[Hockey Duckie]

There is very little chance any team has 3-4 guys in the pipeline better than Zegras, if the Ducks do then count your lucky stars because this team is going to be a dynasty.

With the reset rebuild, creating depth for a dynasty is what the Ducks are trying to do. We are already thinking that Z's the odd man out at top-6C with McTavish and Carlsson onboard. Terry is a better all around player than Z today. Then there are those defensemen who already possess great offense and will be learning to play defense in Zell, Minty, and Luneau. Although Luneau was drafted in the middle of the 2nd round, he has first round pedigree before his knee surgery. We'll be adding another potential top-10 pick this year too.

We're stacked in defense. We're looking promising in goal. We have four out of our top-6 figured out for the next 6/7 years (using 7 years b/c Terry signed a 7-year contract). I believe we have a lot of bottom-6 forwards developing with bite.

And we're still going to be drafting more players! It's actually fun seeing the potential macro view for this franchise, hopefully with Z still on it!

 

[70sSanO]

Prob just offer moore + lightning 1st + another piece or 2

I’m thinking the other piece would be Perry… lol!

John

 

[Ducks DVM]

How many points did the Sedins have in their third year in the NHL? less than 65! Does that mean that Zegras is bound for the HOF? No but it shows that what Zegras has been doing is fairly difficult and there isn't 3-4 guys in the pipeline that could do that.

They can ask for more money and if they're worth more than Zegras (not likely in most cases) you pay them. Most teams have 3-4 guys that are paid very well and they build around those 4. I don't see how Zegras isn't in that four for you.

Potential is a nice word to use but it's very unlikely you'll have more than 4 guys better or even close to Zegras. Those listed might be better at "actual" hockey but unless you have 4 of them in your prospect pool there's really no justification for not paying zegras his worth.a

You might want to look at the team the Sedins were on and the minutes they were getting because of it. They also would have been straight to the bench/press box for the antics Zegras was allowed to repeatedly perform.

Your last paragraph makes zero sense. We do have 4-6 prospects and players potentially better or as good as Zegras.

Explain to me why you think a guy who’d be in the discussion for 1st overall most years should not be considered a better prospect than Zegras? I’m honestly confused.

Zegras is likely in my top 4-5. Teams that win do not grossly overpay players coming off of their ELC, however. That’s left to the also-rans and never-were’s

 

[branmuffin17]

I feel we need Z. We need someone with his level of creativity, and the fact he makes highlight plays, has a marketable personality, and makes the game exciting is something that can help sell the Ducks to the fans. He's got a very underrated, sneaky shot IMO, and I don't think he needs to be a C. If they make sure he's happy/satisfied playing top 6 wing, I think he's potentially worth 7-8M, possibly a bit more, as long as they can secure him long term.

I think we can't just take the last year or two in a bubble, specifically with regard to the level the Ducks played to...the entire team was overall defensively awful, and that brings analytical data down...I'm sure multiple players had career lows in various categories, and with a better overall team and system in place, Z will be able to better showcase his worth.

 

[CrazyDuck4u]

Damn this might more serious than we thought. To let it drag this long. The silence on Drysdale is horrible too

 

[Leonardo87]

Damn this might more serious than we thought. To let it drag this long. The silence on Drysdale is horrible too

Meh

Remember Rakell and Lindholm.

 

[Hamilton Bulldogs]

With the reset rebuild, creating depth for a dynasty is what the Ducks are trying to do. We are already thinking that Z's the odd man out at top-6C with McTavish and Carlsson onboard. Terry is a better all around player than Z today. Then there are those defensemen who already possess great offense and will be learning to play defense in Zell, Minty, and Luneau. Although Luneau was drafted in the middle of the 2nd round, he has first round pedigree before his knee surgery. We'll be adding another potential top-10 pick this year too.

We're stacked in defense. We're looking promising in goal. We have four out of our top-6 figured out for the next 6/7 years (using 7 years b/c Terry signed a 7-year contract). I believe we have a lot of bottom-6 forwards developing with bite.

And we're still going to be drafting more players! It's actually fun seeing the potential macro view for this franchise, hopefully with Z still on it!

Even if Zegras wasn't in your top 6 as a centre , use him as a winger and then you have an elite top 6. A top 6 with only Carlsson, Terry and McTavish is good but not great. The ducks are not going to find a zegras anytime soon in the draft and they certainly wont get it with Gaucher (who was drafted to be a bottom 6), Tracey or any other forward prospect in the pipeline.As I pointed out he's a fairly rare talent and there won't be many guys at 5-10 that'll become zegras and the other prospects have other roles that they can fill.

Low balling Zegras because a middle of the round second round pick might turn out to be a gem is foolishness. If ALL of these players turn out then yeah you can move on from zegras but to bank on that when most of them haven't even played an NHL game is madness.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Meh

Remember Rakell and Lindholm.

Were not allowed to remember Lindholm, only in the former duck thread

 

[Leonardo87]

Were not allowed to remember Lindholm, only in the former duck thread

It is he who shall not be named.

 

[Hamilton Bulldogs]

You might want to look at the team the Sedins were on and the minutes they were getting because of it. They also would have been straight to the bench/press box for the antics Zegras was allowed to repeatedly perform.

Your last paragraph makes zero sense. We do have 4-6 prospects and players potentially better or as good as Zegras.

Explain to me why you think a guy who’d be in the discussion for 1st overall most years should not be considered a better prospect than Zegras? I’m honestly confused.

Zegras is likely in my top 4-5. Teams that win do not grossly overpay players coming off of their ELC, however. That’s left to the also-rans and never-were’s

Look at the teams the sedins were playing on? Look at the team zegras was playing on. There was times he was playing with Derek Grant of all people. Where is he now? Not even in the league. Not all mins are created equal. Sedins played on a real NHL team that could score. Zegras played on a team ran by a camp counselor playing with dudes who are on PTOs, Bottom 6 NHLers, swiss leaguers and the occasional good player.

The only "antics"Zegras is guilty of is overpassing. I guess if Babcock was coaching that would have him scratched or decapitated but yeah not seeing this antics angle.

Who would be in the discussion to be first overall? Leo is the only one I could think of and I believe he could be better and even if he was he would still be grouped with the core 4 of zegras, mct and Terry, which means all 4 can get paid and should be the focal point of the franchise.

It's not a grossly overpayment by any means. 7 million a year for your early 20s leading scorer who is one of the most marketable athletes in the league for 3 years is a fair and reasonable deal.

 

[AngelDuck]

He’s a good player but he’s likely going to be a winger and isn’t good defensively at all. We need him to be our Kane - even if it’s a poor man’s version. Can he get there?

It’ll certainly be interesting to watch him under a real coach

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

He’s a good player but he’s likely going to be a winger and isn’t good defensively at all. We need him to be our Kane - even if it’s a poor man’s version. Can he get there?

It’ll certainly be interesting to watch him under a real coach

i dont think his defense will be as noticeable in a capable system.

As for what he can be i dont think 30/60/90+ play making winger is out of the question

 

[Ducks DVM]

Look at the teams the sedins were playing on? Look at the team zegras was playing on. There was times he was playing with Derek Grant of all people. Where is he now? Not even in the league. Not all mins are created equal. Sedins played on a real NHL team that could score. Zegras played on a team ran by a camp counselor playing with dudes who are on PTOs, Bottom 6 NHLers, swiss leaguers and the occasional good player.

The only "antics"Zegras is guilty of is overpassing. I guess if Babcock was coaching that would have him scratched or decapitated but yeah not seeing this antics angle.

Who would be in the discussion to be first overall? Leo is the only one I could think of and I believe he could be better and even if he was he would still be grouped with the core 4 of zegras, mct and Terry, which means all 4 can get paid and should be the focal point of the franchise.

It's not a grossly overpayment by any means. 7 million a year for your early 20s leading scorer who is one of the most marketable athletes in the league for 3 years is a fair and reasonable deal.

Not even remotely what I meant. The Sedins had very good players taking the top minutes. Zegras isn’t putting up points getting 11-12 minutes a game either.

I consider misconducts for yapping at officials, repeatedly, with no letter on your chest to be antics. Also selfish slashing penalties, temper tantrums, and forcing needlessly fancy passes resulting in turnovers for goals when there’s a very clear easy play to make instead, again - repeatedly. YMMV.

Yes, Carlsson. And again, the point is that overpaying leads to the next guy also demanding overpaying after his ELC. Which will be even more than the current guy.

Zegras didn’t draw flies last year after it became clear the team was no good. Marketability is reflected in your endorsements, not your salary. Agree to disagree that 7x3 for a bridge on a 1 dimensional 60 point player whose play actually regressed last year is fair. He wants to extract all he can, that’s his right. It’s the team’s right to not want to blow up the salary structure.

I prefer the team be prioritized, you (it appears, correct me if I’m wrong) prefer the player. I prefer to budget conservatively to not be forced into trading people too soon (or at all) because there’s no room for them, and I think that teams that do that rarely succeed. You appear (again, correct me if I’m wrong) think significantly less of the prospects than I do and want to invest in what is currently a surer thing. Neither of us are going to change our minds.

 

[Emerald Duck]

There are several players that drive their lines and power plays but are not centers. Kucherov, Kane, Panarin, Ratannen and Marner come to mind.

I'm not suggesting that Zegras is at their level yet, but I could see McTavish and Zegras playing together where Mac gets the center assignments in the F/O and defensive zones and is a finisher for Zegras in the O zone.

Carlsson/Killorn/Terry would make a good balanced line playing together.

 

[Ducks]

I'm really surprised to see so many people in here souring on Zegras and predict his long term future with the team after two seasons, one as the leading scorer. You guys are a fickle bunch.

 

[MMC]

I'm really surprised to see so many people in here souring on Zegras and predict his long term future with the team after two seasons, one as the leading scorer. You guys are a fickle bunch.

I don’t think people are souring on him, but when all indications are that this will be a bridge deal you’re paying him for what he’s done so far, which people are being honest about.

 

[Ducks DVM]

I'm really surprised to see so many people in here souring on Zegras and predict his long term future with the team after two seasons, one as the leading scorer. You guys are a fickle bunch.

There’s a difference between souring on him and simply not believing he’s going to be elite within the next 3 seasons. For forwards with over 40 games, he was 66th in scoring, and 386th in +/- last year.

The kid has work to do to get to elite. That’s not saying we can’t or won’t, but the NHL isn’t TikTok. Your image isn’t what gets you paid.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Even if Zegras wasn't in your top 6 as a centre , use him as a winger and then you have an elite top 6. A top 6 with only Carlsson, Terry and McTavish is good but not great. The ducks are not going to find a zegras anytime soon in the draft and they certainly wont get it with Gaucher (who was drafted to be a bottom 6), Tracey or any other forward prospect in the pipeline.As I pointed out he's a fairly rare talent and there won't be many guys at 5-10 that'll become zegras and the other prospects have other roles that they can fill.

Low balling Zegras because a middle of the round second round pick might turn out to be a gem is foolishness. If ALL of these players turn out then yeah you can move on from zegras but to bank on that when most of them haven't even played an NHL game is madness.

We did draft Zegras 9th overall to identify talents like Zegras can be possible to be found in picks 5-10. In last year's draft, Michkov went 7th overall.

I believe you're conflating negotiating an RFA contract with comparing a 2nd round pick to replace Zegras, which is both a red herring and false dilemma fallacies. We only know a part of the negotiations, which is the low end, but we don't know the high end. What if Z asked for $8 mil for a bridge deal. Will you then call him a prima donna because he's just a one-dimensional player?

I've already shared that Lindholm didn't sign until after the 8th regular season game. And Lindholm wanted to be a Duck for life, but GM Verbeek only wanted Lindholm as a side chick than a wife. Rakell also didn't sign until mid-October and the wait was longer due to visa and health recover issues. Lindholm and Rakell holdouts were in the same off-season in 2016.

With Z and Drysdale holding out, it doesn't bother me because they'll eventually be signed. Unfortunately, holdouts do happen, but that doesn't mean Z is gone.