Zdeno Chara

[solidmotion]

It doesn't seem as straight forward when again you're now comparing 6 teams and like 100 players all from NA versus 640+ players from around the world and 32 teams.

Would you agree its vastly different and harder to dominate today versus 1950?

no, i probably wouldn't say that. consider that in the 06 era, there were only 18 first liners in the entire league, 12 top pair defensemen, six starting goalies. even earning an opportunity in that situation would be an accomplishment: hall of famer johnny bower toiled in the minor leagues until he was in his 30s before finally breaking in with the leafs. and then you're playing the same players 14 times a year, year in, year out—lots of pressure to keep improving and adjusting. and look at how o6 players did after expansion: hull, howe, mikita, keon, mahovlich, bucyk, lots of them still great through the 70s in a totally different environment. (similar story with 80s players like bourque and macinnis; similar story maybe playing out right now with crosby, kane, ovechkin staying relevant as top players even with a new generation coming in under them and the style of play changing drastically.)

 

[Ned Bouhalassa]

do people know there is a history of hockey section on this website?

...there is a history of hockey section this website. it is worth exploring.

here's the list they made of the top defensemen of all time: HOH Top 60 Defensemen of All Time

chara is at 43.

he's added pretty substantially to his legacy since then: two more post-season all-star selections, two more top-3 norris finishes, excellent longevity as a #1 defenseman.

i could see chara pushing for a spot in the top 25 at this point. pronger at 20 keeps him out of the top 20 but he wouldn't be far behind. top 10... no.

2011?!!

 

[solidmotion]

2011?!!

post-cup, pre-2013 finals, which i guess i should've mentioned, but still doesn't put him above pronger in my mind.

 

[Loseipeg]

Using Norris trophies as a barometer is specious at best, because we all know Chara was robbed of one when Lidstrom was basically given one as a career award in a year when Chara was light years better. You said it yourself, Keith didn't have longevity, and he also was never a dominant defenseman in the way Chara was. I don't think there's any sort of argument for them being even close. The only real argurment is for Chara and Pronger to be close. They were both dominant, in ways that Keith could only dream of.

Keith was incredibly dominant defensively for a long time. Just because he didnt do it by being a big lumbering oaf and actually used skill and speed doesnt mean it didnt happen.

 

[Loseipeg]

In that game, the isles had one shot on goal when he was on the ice and he beat up Matt Martin. The day after his 42nd birthday. Chara is hard to define. There has never been another player quite like him. I don't know how to rank him but I'd say the only guys who really played in his era that I'd take over him are Pronger and Lidstrom. In his prime he was shutting down the best players in hockey for 28 min a night while scoring 40-50 points. He's been the most intimidating player in the league for two decades. Think about that. We've been really fortunate in Boston.

Edit- modern guys like Keith and Karlsson I get why people name them but I've seen a lot of both of them in their primes and Chara was more of a force than either of them until he was about 35. They have more Norris trophies but hockey writers will always give it to a guy with 60 points over a 40 pt guy with better defense. Both of those guys were deployed as offensive weapons as attack d. Chara has never started 50% of his zone starts in the ozone. He's played the hardest of the hard quality of competition and dominated puck possession against them. Hes not the offensive player those two were in their primes but hes far better on the other side of the ice than either of them.

Love bruins fans who claim both chara and bergeron always face the toughest competition. For many seasons they were split up and so one of them didnt. And the times they are together someone is having it substantially easier because of the other.

 

[Glove Malfunction]

Keith was incredibly dominant defensively for a long time. Just because he didnt do it by being a big lumbering oaf and actually used skill and speed doesnt mean it didnt happen.

He was absolutely not dominant in the ways that Chara or Pronger were. Only a blind fan would say he was.

 

[Loseipeg]

He was absolutely not dominant in the ways that Chara or Pronger were. Only a blind fan would say he was.

Why are you even equating chara to pronger? Pronger played well against toews and kane in the 2010 final. Chara got WORKED by them in 2013. -5 over the past 3 games with everything on the line.

 

[Glove Malfunction]

Why are you even equating chara to pronger? Pronger played well against toews and kane in the 2010 final. Chara got WORKED by them in 2013. -5 over the past 3 games with everything on the line.

Because they were dominant in ways that Keith could only dream about. Do I really have to say it again?

 

[gorangers0525]

Because they were dominant in ways that Keith could only dream about. Do I really have to say it again?

Two can play the anecdotal BS way.


“No they weren’t.”

 

[Loseipeg]

Because they were dominant in ways that Keith could only dream about. Do I really have to say it again?

The whole point is pronger was and chara got exposed and ragdolled with speed and physicality instead

 

[Loseipeg]

Because they were dominant in ways that Keith could only dream about. Do I really have to say it again?

Btw, chara can only dream about anything approaching keiths 2015 playoff run. Unanimous conn smythe. Insanely high toi. Most points in playoffs for a dman since leetch etc.

 

[newfy]

Because they were dominant in ways that Keith could only dream about. Do I really have to say it again?

And Keith dominated in ways that Chara couldnt as well. Cool, Chara is big and mean. Keith is an all time great skater, I've never seen keith get beat wide the way Chara has at times with speed coming down on him. Keith also has a MUCH better playoff track record. Its fine if Keith cant dominate in ways like Chara did but he was more dominant in the playoffs in his career

 

[burstnbloom]

Love bruins fans who claim both chara and bergeron always face the toughest competition. For many seasons they were split up and so one of them didnt. And the times they are together someone is having it substantially easier because of the other.

These are searchable stats. Have a ball finding qoc numbers that refute what I said or what other Bruins fans say about Bergeron. These are not good posts. You're doing a bad job.

 

[Loseipeg]

These are searchable stats. Have a ball finding qoc numbers that refute what I said or what other Bruins fans say about Bergeron. These are not good posts. You're doing a bad job.

i don't need to search stats to know that EVEN IF you are right about both of them having high QoC, that means they are both helping each other out and therefore carrying less of the defensive burden individually

 

[nbwingsfan]

Why are you even equating chara to pronger? Pronger played well against toews and kane in the 2010 final. Chara got WORKED by them in 2013. -5 over the past 3 games with everything on the line.

So a 37yo Chara struggled the last few games of a grueling playoff run? Shocking.

Keith is only 35 and his play has already fell off a cliff. What was he, -30 last year?

 

[Loseipeg]

S

So a 37yo Chara struggled the last few games of a grueling playoff run? Shocking.

Keith is only 35 and his play has already fell off a cliff. What was he, -30 last year?

struggled is putting it mildly. Got dogwalked in best on best. Bringing up keith in a comparison between pronger who was 35 in 2010 and chara, the hawks envy runs deep.

 

[Rydan]

Wait, Keith is still playing?