Zack Kassian VII - There Is No Need To Be Upset

[VC]

If the nutrition advice to fitness trained he is getting to go with the hunger he has to succeed it can be a fun season to watch Kass instead of a frustrating one.

 

[vancityluongo]

Post about Kassian from HockeyWidow:



That's probably best new I've heard this off-season.

If Kassian has a monster season next year, I'll take back the criticism of 1-2-3-4 Willie on his handling. Great to hear, now hopefully Benning doesn't flip Kass for a third at the draft.

 

[biturbo19]

would make me very happy to see Bigkat succeed. it is something this team really needs.

Yeah. Absolutely. The idea of what Kassian could be...is something this team desperately needs.

The real question is going to be...if he really can be that player. And when?

The fitness component is certainly a really good sign if he's taking it seriously, and working on his ability to play full games full of full shifts at total high effort. No more of the floaty nonsense he's prone to. No more of the late in shift coasting around garbage. If he really wants to be the player he's "supposed to be"...it's all out.

The other component of course, is the mental side of things. Is he finally going to stop making the same mistakes defensively that he's made since day 1 here? Is he finally going to stay focused through whole games on a consistent night in night out basis, and engaged the whole time?

I adore what Kassian could become as much as the next guy...i'm just worried that we're talking about a bit of a ticking clock on this. He's 24 now, hasn't demonstrated that ability yet...and already coping with potentially chronic back issues. It's all well and good to urge, "patience, he'll get there one day!" with Kassian. Because frankly...that potential payoff is huge. But @24 now...how many years until these back issues start to become a recurring theme where he's out for a bunch of games, he misses key moments in the season, he can't go for the playoffs because his back is acting up? Big physical forwards like we all want Kassian to be, don't have the longest of shelf lives.

The real question is...do you bet on Kassian turning it around full scale for a number of years before that big Three-Oh rolls around and the "decline" starts? Or do you think about selling early?

 

[vanuck]

Never really got the narrative that he was playing like **** to begin the year. Interesting though that HW is still posting insider stuff anyway.

 

[WTG]

I wouldn't be against trading Vrbata and having Kassian fill the void on the 2nd/1st line. Kassian on a line with Baertschi would be great.

 

[The Stig]

I wouldn't be against trading Vrbata and having Kassian fill the void on the 2nd/1st line. Kassian on a line with Baertschi would be great.

Id be for that too if Kass wasn't such a wildcard. I love Kass. I want him to be what we see he can be. But i dont want to bet the farm on him yet. He needs a season where he isn't streakier than Geoff Courtnall, and looks in place for a year. If he pulls that off this season, im fully on the Kass train. Im cautiously optimistic about him.

 

[WTG]

Id be for that too if Kass wasn't such a wildcard. I love Kass. I want him to be what we see he can be. But i dont want to bet the farm on him yet. He needs a season where he isn't streakier than Geoff Courtnall, and looks in place for a year. If he pulls that off this season, im fully on the Kass train. Im cautiously optimistic about him.

Honestly, I think he's a top 6 forward. Sure he's streaky as hell but regardless he still produces at a top 6 rate (in P/60 metrics)

Rolling into next year with this lineup would be sweet.

Sedin-Sedin-Kassian (Sedins mentoring Kassian)
Baertschi-Bonino-Vrbata (Vrbata mentoring Baertschi)
Kenins-Horvat-Burrows (Burrows mentoring Horvat/Kenins)

The 4th line I don't care about.

 

[Ninebreaker]

Can't wait to see him dominate next season.

 

[VanillaCoke]

We NEED kassian. Streaky or not he is basically the only forward whose not soft as wet paper.

 

[arsmaster*]

Yeah. Absolutely. The idea of what Kassian could be...is something this team desperately needs.

The real question is going to be...if he really can be that player. And when?

The fitness component is certainly a really good sign if he's taking it seriously, and working on his ability to play full games full of full shifts at total high effort. No more of the floaty nonsense he's prone to. No more of the late in shift coasting around garbage. If he really wants to be the player he's "supposed to be"...it's all out.

The other component of course, is the mental side of things. Is he finally going to stop making the same mistakes defensively that he's made since day 1 here? Is he finally going to stay focused through whole games on a consistent night in night out basis, and engaged the whole time?

I adore what Kassian could become as much as the next guy...i'm just worried that we're talking about a bit of a ticking clock on this. He's 24 now, hasn't demonstrated that ability yet...and already coping with potentially chronic back issues. It's all well and good to urge, "patience, he'll get there one day!" with Kassian. Because frankly...that potential payoff is huge. But @24 now...how many years until these back issues start to become a recurring theme where he's out for a bunch of games, he misses key moments in the season, he can't go for the playoffs because his back is acting up? Big physical forwards like we all want Kassian to be, don't have the longest of shelf lives.

The real question is...do you bet on Kassian turning it around full scale for a number of years before that big Three-Oh rolls around and the "decline" starts? Or do you think about selling early?

I still don't think going "all-out" makes any sense for a player who's strengths lie in vision, big body puck protection and pretty soft hands.

Selling early, as in now, makes ZERO sense, unless you're getting someone willing to pay for what he can become. Because what he is now isn't getting you more than a couple lottery tickets at the draft.

Worst case he's a guy who can play on the 3rd line, and IMO, he has driven the play from that position for pretty good stretches in his career here in the last few years. Injuries have slowed him down though.

Even the idea that he was finally starting to go "all out" this season with the Twins doesn't line up with my eye test. He wasn't going any "harder", he was just going where they wanted him to (the front of the net).

 

[I in the Eye]

Whatever this regime needs to do to convince themselves that Kassian is now their player, and untradeable, because he is a "new player" transformed by Willie... is fine by me. It's bull****, IMHO, but it's fine.

Just get him off that ****ing available to trade list.

 

[DL44]

Whatever this regime needs to do to convince themselves that Kassian is now their player, and untradeable, because he is a "new player" transformed by Willie... is fine by me. It's bull****, IMHO, but it's fine.

Just get him off that ****ing available to trade list.

There's very little chance Kassian was ever a trade candidate.

It made zero asset management sense... he had a season that crushed his value... injury riddled, poorly conditioned, unproductive.

For any GM to gamble a good asset for Kassian, they'll need to be assured his core/back issues are not chronic.

He's ours. For better or worse, he's ours.

I can't wait to see a healthy and motivated Kassian...
Such a blow to see him get set back in preseason last yr... here's to a much luckier and productive year!!

 

[biturbo19]

I still don't think going "all-out" makes any sense for a player who's strengths lie in vision, big body puck protection and pretty soft hands.

Selling early, as in now, makes ZERO sense, unless you're getting someone willing to pay for what he can become. Because what he is now isn't getting you more than a couple lottery tickets at the draft.

Worst case he's a guy who can play on the 3rd line, and IMO, he has driven the play from that position for pretty good stretches in his career here in the last few years. Injuries have slowed him down though.

Even the idea that he was finally starting to go "all out" this season with the Twins doesn't line up with my eye test. He wasn't going any "harder", he was just going where they wanted him to (the front of the net).

I think obviously the bolded is still key. If you're going to move Kassian, it's gotta be for the right price. It's gotta factor in what he could become.

That said...as it pertains to playing with the Twins, i still don't really think that's the best fit. I think anyone can have a stretch of productive play there, but i don't think it really plays to his strengths in what he could be as a player, just being a big net-front lug with the Twins, and i don't think he's really an ideal puck-retriever for them either.

I don't think "all out" Kassian is really the same sort of player that i'd expect say...Virtanen to become either. But there's a big difference between "totally engaged and hustling" Kassian, and "floating and trying to play a pure skill game" Kassian, who just simply doesn't seem skilled enough to get by on that.

Those brief stretches we've seen where he seems to strike a balance on that, those are awfully encouraging...but they're also so few and far between overall. Also the reason i think you might be able to sell him "high" relative to what he's done so far in his career. Though if you can't...obviously there's no point really.

This idea of waiting on him to "break out" for good though, has to have some end to it. At some point, either he becomes a legitimate top-6 scoring forward with size and the whole shebang, or he doesn't...and you've got yourself a defensively weak bottom-6 banger who doesn't often go "all out"...with the odd flashes of scoring touch. Which is an okay play to have i guess...but i think you'd regret not "selling high" on him if that's where it ends up. Especially when you throw in the back issues which are already starting to factor in...it's just one of those conditions that often haunts guys for the rest of their careers. Certainly if that becomes a chronic issue with his back, it's going to be a lot tougher for him to consistently play the way we all want to see him play. The whole point of Kassian really, being that he can be big and physical and "rugged" as a scoring winger...potentially. If the physicality and ruggedness gets removed from the equation...he's not a very "unique" player anymore.

 

[arsmaster*]

I think obviously the bolded is still key. If you're going to move Kassian, it's gotta be for the right price. It's gotta factor in what he could become.

That said...as it pertains to playing with the Twins, i still don't really think that's the best fit. I think anyone can have a stretch of productive play there, but i don't think it really plays to his strengths in what he could be as a player, just being a big net-front lug with the Twins, and i don't think he's really an ideal puck-retriever for them either.

I don't think "all out" Kassian is really the same sort of player that i'd expect say...Virtanen to become either. But there's a big difference between "totally engaged and hustling" Kassian, and "floating and trying to play a pure skill game" Kassian, who just simply doesn't seem skilled enough to get by on that.

Those brief stretches we've seen where he seems to strike a balance on that, those are awfully encouraging...but they're also so few and far between overall. Also the reason i think you might be able to sell him "high" relative to what he's done so far in his career. Though if you can't...obviously there's no point really.

This idea of waiting on him to "break out" for good though, has to have some end to it. At some point, either he becomes a legitimate top-6 scoring forward with size and the whole shebang, or he doesn't...and you've got yourself a defensively weak bottom-6 banger who doesn't often go "all out"...with the odd flashes of scoring touch. Which is an okay play to have i guess...but i think you'd regret not "selling high" on him if that's where it ends up. Especially when you throw in the back issues which are already starting to factor in...it's just one of those conditions that often haunts guys for the rest of their careers. Certainly if that becomes a chronic issue with his back, it's going to be a lot tougher for him to consistently play the way we all want to see him play. The whole point of Kassian really, being that he can be big and physical and "rugged" as a scoring winger...potentially. If the physicality and ruggedness gets removed from the equation...he's not a very "unique" player anymore.

The team doesn't have a great mix to maximize his abilities. You would have thought Kesler would have been a perfect linemate for him. Shoot first player that drives the net.

Obviously the dream is one day he'll play with a guy who can snipe. Even going back to his junior career, namely the WJC, he was the PP QB on the half wall, not the net front guy. I never agreed with that then, but that's they type of hands and vision he has (while stationary), it's pretty hilarious than Ryan Johansen was his net front guy.

I think we all drool at the hopes someday Virtanen-Horvat-Kassian can be a legit 2nd line. How realistic that is, I don't know, but it's fun to dream sometimes.

 

[Samzilla]

good to hear. should be noted, every off-season since he became a canuck we've seen videos of kass getting lean and mean in the gym. so what's different about these ones?

 

[DL44]

good to hear. should be noted, every off-season since he became a canuck we've seen videos of kass getting lean and mean in the gym. so what's different about these ones?

Nothing. He just needs a little luck in the injury department.

Last season... every time he started to look good, he was hurt 5 games later...

Finished the 13-14 season with Matthias and Richardson where they often our best line behind the twins.. So promising to see come into camp.
Hurt in preseason... off to a slow start start... then his line had a solid 10ish game run where they were great like the end of the previous season.... then he gets hurt..
comes back, take time to get going... begins to look ok... hurt again.

It was just a miserable yr of bad luck..

He looks to be doing a tonne of core work as per those videos... not sure it its anything he's doing different from past yrs... but always positive and great to see reports of the effort being put in.

 

[Huggy]

Theres a reason a lot of us have him with the sedins in armchair

 

[Cupless44]

We NEED kassian. Streaky or not he is basically the only forward whose not soft as wet paper.

Fully agree. Hopefully he is in shape and really committed next year. Still only 24, I think Canucks have to give it another season. I don't want to see him traded at the draft for a pick.

 

[NoRaise4Brackett]

It would be a bad idea to move a player that is/was accused of being lazy, right before a contract year.

 

[Goon42]

good to hear. should be noted, every off-season since he became a canuck we've seen videos of kass getting lean and mean in the gym. so what's different about these ones?

So much this ^

Love me some Kassian but we have heard the same thing about him every off season for what? 4 years now?

 

[Scurr]

So much this ^

Love me some Kassian but we have heard the same thing about him every off season for what? 4 years now?

We have.... and every year I think we've seen a better athlete on the ice. A little bit stronger, a little bit quicker, a little bit more endurance. Small steps. I think the hope is that a "monster offseason" has him take a big step. It would benefit him to satisfy the organization on this front. I think a Kassian that comes into camp in great shape is going to get a great opportunity.

 

[a Fool]

I still don't think going "all-out" makes any sense for a player who's strengths lie in vision, big body puck protection and pretty soft hands.

Selling early, as in now, makes ZERO sense, unless you're getting someone willing to pay for what he can become. Because what he is now isn't getting you more than a couple lottery tickets at the draft.

Worst case he's a guy who can play on the 3rd line, and IMO, he has driven the play from that position for pretty good stretches in his career here in the last few years. Injuries have slowed him down though.

Even the idea that he was finally starting to go "all out" this season with the Twins doesn't line up with my eye test. He wasn't going any "harder", he was just going where they wanted him to (the front of the net).

Whatever this regime needs to do to convince themselves that Kassian is now their player, and untradeable, because he is a "new player" transformed by Willie... is fine by me. It's bull****, IMHO, but it's fine.

Just get him off that ****ing available to trade list.

I think they see the 6'3 215lb with the look of a cave man and project that into their expectations of how Zack needs to play. They want the hustling, glass banging, performance artist. They want a 6'3 Dorsett instead of looking at what they have.

What is Kassian at this point? Top 9, big body playmaker with some conditioning and defense issues. He's a net positive though even with those issues. He's not afraid of anyone, and seems to relish the games with high intensity. He has another quality that I like: entertainment value. Watching him troll other fan bases, coaches, and players is a treat.

He has more value to us than we would get in a trade. If he comes into camp the same player as last year I'll be happy. If he comes into camp a better player than last year I'll be happy. I won't be happy if he shows up to the Oilers' camp because Benning needed an extra top 90 pick.

Horvat-Kassian is something I want to see next season. The rumour that he's been putting in a "monster" off season is some of the best news around the Canucks lately.

 

[Win One Before I Die]

Better to hold onto Kassian and hope he pans out rather than hoping a 3rd pick (which he is probably worth) develops into what we already have in him. Kassian is streaky but wait until his value is higher if you trade him.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

As has been said, just hold onto him. Let him develop.

 

[m9]

Hopefully Kassian is going nowhere.