DaNaultinus
The Human Fund Donor
- Mar 25, 2013
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Player Discussion Zach Redmond (Cleared Waivers- Sent Down)
- Thread starter Deebs
- Start date
Wonder how that compares to Weber ?
And then we can see the value of advanced stats without context LOL.
I love how guys in here are looking at actual, true quantifiable numbers, and saying nah.. watch him play. The numbers are gathered from his play. It is the actual results. You can't just say "Well actually I saw him turn it over so therefore he's not that good". Yes, he may be turning the puck over.. but he is producing these #'s while doing that.. so I don't think it's a big deal.
DaNaultinus
The Human Fund Donor
- Mar 25, 2013
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Picking stats to suit your narrative is easy. How about his offensive zone starts are 57.1 and his PDO is 99.3 (good for 8th among our defencemen).
Those two stats tell a lot about all the stats Help mentioned....
Maybe because he's starting over 37% of his shifts in the offensive zone and only 27% in the defensive zone. It's easier to put up good numbers like that when you're mostly in the offensive zone, whereas someone like Redmond would start over 33% of his shifts in the defensive zone (30% in the offensive zone) but Redmond still finishes most of his shifts in the offensive zone.
Since stats were brought up, 5-on-5, Redmond has a better:
CF60
CA60
CF%
FF%
SF%
xGF%
SCF%
So... yeah.
Not sure why they'd waive Redmond over Barberio.
He was. I still have no idea why he was scratched for so long for Hanley, Johnston and Barberio unless he was injured. He's the only one of our depth options that didn't look like a tire fire in his own end.
Help
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Zone starts are a minor thing, and I'll tell you why. The overwhelming majority of shift starts occur on the fly, and are not accounted for in zone start numbers, and that 57% number isn't taking into account NZ starts. When it comes down to it, it's not that big a difference, especially considering that about 50% of the time, your team is going to win the DZ face off (and especially if Barberio is on the ice) it's probably coming out of your zone. One can adjust for zone starts, and Barberio still fares well
I'm glad you mentioned PDO, because a low PDO is usually a sign of a guy getting poor puck luck. It would explain the disparity between Barberio's high SCF% and his not-quite-as-high GF%. Individual players, especially non-stars don't have any real influence over on-ice shooting% and on-ice save%. I find that PDO also correlates with guys failing/overperforming the ice test. See: Shayne Gostisbere this year vs last
I watch him play too. We all do, I would imagine, otherwise it'd be unlikely that someone would post here. In fact, since his acquisition, I can almost guarantee that I've watched him more than you, on account of the fact that I reside in St John's and frequent the games
You mention cowardly, I'm guessing you and I value different skillsets. Might explain the discrepancies in our eye tests
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He is effective at creating positive corsi numbers for his team, spending more time in the offensive zone than the defensive zone.
Corsi doesn't imply that he knows what to do when he enters either zone, which is somewhat important.
The Great Weal
Phil's Pizza
- Jan 15, 2015
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Couldn't agree more...it should have been Barberio, but once again, the RDS crowd has a hand in MT's decisions...
The only good thing here is, Barberio is next and there is no way around that...
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So strange... Why does he clear waivers?
How come he plays such sheltered minutes and such limited 5 on 5 minutes?
I guess everybody else is missing the "true quantifiable numbers" and "actual results" that you have brilliantly unearthed.
I mean, what else could it be?
TheAntiPrice
Registered User
Oh but there is, watch them choose Barberio over Pateryn.
Pateryn was sitting half the time even when Barberio wasn't up with the team earlier in the season. Barberio will definitely (very undeservedly) play over him in the 3rd pairing with Beaulieu. And then everyone in the media will blame Beaulieu for the struggles of that 3rd pairing. Beaulieu is this year's scapegoat.
Kudo Shinichi
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- Apr 20, 2012
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Absolutely. I don't get Therrien...so much love for 5'5-DD and soft-Barbie-Barberio.
Redmond was our 6-7 dman (while others were injured), but with Nestorov...he's now our 7-8-9.
Barberio shouldn't be higher than 8-9-10...or keep him away from our Habs (6-7-8 is for Pateryn, Redmond, and Hanley).
Playoffs:
Emelin - Weber
Beaulieu/Markov - Petry
Markov/Beaulieu - Nesterov
Pateryn
Redmond
Hanley
AHL:
Barberio
Johnston
Outlet passes...sure (sometimes), but I've seen him too many times just watch opponents fall on/crash our goalies while he would just stare, do nothing, and then casually skate back to the bench like nothing happened. And, without the puck in our zone...he's lost and very very soft.
Please keep Barberio away from the 6-7-8 spots (especially for playoffs). Those spots should be for Nesterov, Pateryn and Redmond. And, heck...I'd give more chances to a healthy-Hanley before soft-Barberio.
We don't want this ''fine puck mover'' anywhere near our 6-7 spots for playoffs...yikes. If they're showcasing him right now for a 5th or 6th rnd pick...ok, but it better not be to get him ready for playoffs 'cause he's not a playoff dman...far from it (way too soft for the regular season...will be ten times softer for the more intense/tougher/grittier playoffs).
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WeThreeKings
Habs cup - its in the BAG
pezcore
Registered User
Redmond or Barberio...doesnt matter, in the end neither are good enough to make this team. Markov and Pateryn's imminent return with the addition of Nesterov, Barberio and Redmond are battling for the position of 8th and 9th defensemen on our depth chart.
I wouldve waived Barberio over Redmond, but in the end, it doesnt really make a difference since both are pretty much interchangeable
I wouldve waived Barberio over Redmond, but in the end, it doesnt really make a difference since both are pretty much interchangeable
Leon Lucius Black
Registered User
- Nov 5, 2007
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I saw some good things from him, I also think he had it tough since he got hurt right at the start of the year and missed 2 months before getting a game in.
Hopefully he clears, he's good to have as a 8th D that can play a few games if needed and can help St. John's awful D.
Agalloch
EliteProspects
MarkovsKnee
Global Moderator
Redmond is terrible and should be in the AHL. Barberio is next. Neither player should be in the NHL, but our NHL depth at D is terrible. Redmond played seriously sheltered minutes because he's terrible.
When Barbie's off the blueline, it'll mean we have an NHL blueline once again. Barberio is the better skater which is why he's still here. Barberio can skate the puck out if given space. He'll also dump the puck if under pressure. Redmond plays too slow of a game.
When Barbie's off the blueline, it'll mean we have an NHL blueline once again. Barberio is the better skater which is why he's still here. Barberio can skate the puck out if given space. He'll also dump the puck if under pressure. Redmond plays too slow of a game.
