Zac Rinaldo

[BruinsBtn]

I don't understand the controversy. He's a guy who can sit in the press box for half the year and shake things up when he's in the lineup. He can throw a hit and throwdown with almost anyone.

He brings a bit of emotion to the table and the Bruins team can feed off that.

 

[Tim Vezina Thomas]

3rd round picks are kind of like gift cards. They don't really seem like that big of an asset because they are kind of vague and nebulous. However, once you draft a player or buy something, you see a tangible result and get more attached to it. So forget "3rd rd pick".

Would you deal a Heinen or a Vladar or a Bjork or Cehlarik or Fitzgerald for a guy that can be argued to be the worst player in the league?

I'm not going to forget the "3rd round pick," because thats exactly what it is. A pick that has a high likelihood of busting whether you like it or not. And no, I would not trade any of those 5 for Rinaldo, but I would trade 90% of the other Bruins 3rd-4th round picks of the last 10 years for him (slight exaggeration, but needless to say the Bruins drafting hasnt been up to par).

Like I said above, this team needed energy. Too many times have I seen this team go through the motions with no snarl or energy and show a pathetic amount of desire. If Rinaldo is as advertised he will bring that.

Now, like you've alluded to, Rinaldos deficiencies at the defensive end of the ice are quite significant and if he doesn't move away from that he has no place here. With that said though, what if he meshes perfectly on the 4th line and at least plays acceptable defense? Would this acquisition make sense to you?

The move is definitely an overpayment, no question, and making a habit of these deals is a great way to get a GM fired. With that said though, Sweeney (and I'm sure he consulted with Julien a bit before) saw a fit here and went after it.

 

[Tim Vezina Thomas]

I don't understand the controversy. He's a guy who can sit in the press box for half the year and shake things up when he's in the lineup. He can throw a hit and throwdown with almost anyone.

He brings a bit of emotion to the table and the Bruins team can feed off that.

Or, **gasp**, Julien coaches him up and gets him to play acceptable defense. People are so negative.

Its a 3rd round pick in 2017, if we suck this year we'll have plenty of Heinens and Chelariks to draft in 2016 when we trade everyone at the deadline.

 

[Tim Vezina Thomas]

But he fights!!!!!!

Its not even about fighting with me, its about energy.

Believe me, there are plenty of players I'd rather have than Rinaldo to fill that role, but how many of them are 1. Available and 2. Only cost a 3rd round pick?

Its clear we won't agree on this subject (and thats fine), but I think you dont realize that this could actually be a positive move.

 

[BB88]

Its not even about fighting with me, its about energy.

Believe me, there are plenty of players I'd rather have than Rinaldo to fill that role, but how many of them are 1. Available and 2. Only cost a 3rd round pick?

Its clear we won't agree on this subject (and thats fine), but I think you dont realize that this could actually be a positive move.

But does he bring more energy or does he kill more enegy than bring if he is the leading penalty taker, gives you 5points max, bad defensively and only give you hits/fights?

Like I've said before if we see Kelly-Talbot-Rinaldo line this trade can be brutal, in the D-zone every shift chasing the play and getting frustrated which leads to bad penalties.

Right now I'd invite Bergenheim to camp and let him bring points,
D-play, speed and hits to 4th line who can play on the 3rd line when injuries,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ke3GkY1gQA

 

[GoBs]

I don't understand the controversy. He's a guy who can sit in the press box for half the year and shake things up when he's in the lineup. He can throw a hit and throwdown with almost anyone.

He brings a bit of emotion to the table and the Bruins team can feed off that.

Agree. But their complaint is the 3rd rounder. But these are the posters who believe the Seguin trade was a good deal.

 

[Sheppy]

All I know is if I have to watch the same emotionless dead ass team as I did last year i'm going to lose my mind. It was like watching a game of chess in a morgue.

This hockey team was bullied by Montreal for god sake.

 

[Tim Vezina Thomas]

But does he bring more energy or does he kill more enegy than bring if he is the leading penalty taker, gives you 5points max, bad defensively and only give you hits/fights?

Like I've said before if we see Kelly-Talbot-Rinaldo line this trade can be brutal, in the D-zone every shift chasing the play and getting frustrated which leads to bad penalties.

Right now I'd invite Bergenheim to camp and let him bring points,
D-play, speed and hits to 4th line who can play on the 3rd line when injuries,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ke3GkY1gQA

This all remains to be seen, which I have maintained throughout. If he is more harm than good then hes gone.

How much would he cost though? Franson is holding a lot of this up

 

[BB88]

This all remains to be seen, which I have maintained throughout. If he is more harm than good then hes gone.

How much would he cost though? Franson is holding a lot of this up

He wants to play in the NHL and he doesn't have a contract so not much, give him 1y 1M deal to "boost" his value and get a new contract next year, invite him to camp before signing.
He'd be a great great add to our 4th line when the kids won't be used there next year, just drop Talbot and have Kelly-Kemppainen-Bergenheim-Rinaldo fighting for 4th line spots and create the best 4th line in the league.

 

[Sheppy]

The Bruins will continue to get pushed around.

 

[Dr Quincy]

There were 6 regular forwards in philly last year with a worse ga/60 and 5 the year before. We get it you don't like him - now can we take a break from beating the horse that hasn't even put on a spoked B yet?

I love how making a bunch of posts critical of Rinaldo is "beating a dead horse", but making a bunch of posts defending him is quality posting.

We get you like him. So if you feel like taking a break go right ahead, but last time I checked the only people who have a right to tell me to stop talking about something are my wife and my boss.

Don't think you are either one of them.

 

[Dr Quincy]

And Dr. Quincy would be posting just as much vitriol in their threads as this one.

When one has to resort to ad hominems to defend a player then you know who has won the day.

Actually there are plenty of players who fight who I will say are good players. One of my favorite players of all time was Keith Primeau, who fought.

I'm against bad players who do nothing but fight.

 

[Sheppy]

Who are good playing fighters that you'd slot into the 4th line spot on Boston? Just Curious.

It's not even so much about fighting with Rinaldo, it's his ability to hit like a freight train even at 180 pounds. Right now, the Bruins don't really have a good hitter other than Rinaldo and Miller, who likely will be the 7th D.

 

[Dr Quincy]

IIf Rinaldo is as advertised he will bring that.

Now, like you've alluded to, Rinaldos deficiencies at the defensive end of the ice are quite significant and if he doesn't move away from that he has no place here. With that said though, what if he meshes perfectly on the 4th line and at least plays acceptable defense? Would this acquisition make sense to you?

I don't get the "as advertised" line. He is a player. A player I've watched. A player I've seen stats for. I have evidence of what kind of player he is: a not good one. Whatever "energy" he brings SHOULD show up in other ways.

For example, let's say that a player is a great hitter on the forecheck. He comes in and just lays out D men when they go back to play the puck on a dump in. Ok, that's "energy" and an "intangible", but it should have a measurable effect right?

We should see that his team gains possession more when he's on the ice. We should see that the other team has a problem getting the puck out of their zone.

We should see more shots, shot blocks and missed shots for his team than the opposition when he is on the ice. We should see more faceoffs in the opposition's defensive zone than offensive zone when he's on the ice right? I mean, all that is logical.

If you think that a hard hitting, fast, agressive player intimidates and effects a game we'll see some results of that.

Yet all those tangible examples of how a forechecker may effect a game DON'T happen with Rinaldo. In fact, we see the opposite. We see poor zone entry stats. We see poor possession stats. We see stats that show faceoffs happen more in HIS defensive zone when he's on the ice.

Look, I don't believe in magic or voodoo. If you tell me that a player does something good on the ice, there should be some tangible effect. If all you have is invisibilities then I'm not convinced.

 

[jgatie]

When one has to resort to ad hominems to defend a player then you know who has won the day.

Actually there are plenty of players who fight who I will say are good players. One of my favorite players of all time was Keith Primeau, who fought.

I'm against bad players who do nothing but fight.

I haven't defended Zac Rinaldo once. I've stated I hope he changes his ways, and works out, but I've never defended him. So who is leveling an ad hominem attack at whom?

 

[Sheppy]

We keep blaming Rinaldo for those "stats" - Last time I checked two other players play on that 4th line too. Now, i'm not claiming that Rinaldo is a Patrice Bergeron but I think it's kind of unfair to just peg him as the defensive nightmare without doing the same to his other teammates. It was philly for god sake.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Who are good playing fighters that you'd slot into the 4th line spot on Boston? Just Curious.

It's not even so much about fighting with Rinaldo, it's his ability to hit like a freight train even at 180 pounds. Right now, the Bruins don't really have a good hitter other than Rinaldo and Miller, who likely will be the 7th D.

See my comments about hitting in the post below yours.

I'll expand on that thought and then answer your question about other "fighting" 4th liners.

Ok let's look at another sport, football and one stat, tackles.

Now in the course of a particular play, a ball carrier running towards LB, of COURSE you want him to make the tackle. A tackle is a good thing.

However, when we are just looking at the statistic of amassing tackles, it's a little more complicated. A player who amasses a ton of tackles doesn't necessarily mean he's a great defensive player.

It could mean his D can't get off the field so there are just way more plays against his team so he just gets a ton of chances to get tackles.

It could mean his O sucks and does way too many 3 and outs.

It could mean he's a 3 down player and stays on the field in all situations.

It could mean that his team is always behind and the other team is running the ball a lot to run out the clock.

It could mean that his secondary is great and teams don't try to pass much.


In other words, just looking at a whole bunch of tackles as a number doesn't tell us if he's really effective. We have to look at other things too.

It's the same with hits. A player has the puck and is about to enter the O zone. A dman stands him up with a hit and denies entry. Great hit.

But if a player has a LOT of hits it can also mean he (and his line) never possesses the puck. You can't just look at a big number of hits and say a guy is effective. You have to look at more, and when you look at more with Rinaldo you see he just isn't very good and his hits DON'T prevent the other team from scoring! Isn't that important to people?

Now for other guys who fight but who I think are effective 4th liners:

Nate Thompson (doesn't fight a tone any more but had seasons of 5 or 6)
David Clarkson (only as a player, not taking into contract, if you are talking about player+contract I wouldn't touch him)
Lance BOuma
Andrew Desjardins
Matt Hendricks
Dale Weise
Paul Gaustad
Derek Dorsett

There are a few off the top of my head.

 

[Fenian24]

Who are good playing fighters that you'd slot into the 4th line spot on Boston? Just Curious.

It's not even so much about fighting with Rinaldo, it's his ability to hit like a freight train even at 180 pounds. Right now, the Bruins don't really have a good hitter other than Rinaldo and Miller, who likely will be the 7th D.

Chris Stewart would have been nice on the third line for 1.5, make a deal for Wayne Simmonds, Add Barret Jackman on D to go along with McQuaid. Tom Wilson and Brandon Prust also would have been great additions.

Add them and you don't need Rinaldo. Prust of course makes 3 times what Rinaldo makes and the screams about Rinaldo would have seemed like nothing if we added a fighter who makes as much as Prust, even though he is a much better player. Stewart I heard all last year was lazy yet managed to score 14 goals and 36 points and get in 9 fights, but he has nothing to offer, unlike say Alex Semin

Rinaldo is a low cost player who will be a (mostly) fan favorite, the same people that hated Jay Miller, Darren Kimble, Shawn Thornton and P.J. Stock will hate him and use advanced metrics to say he should be replaced by Alex Kokolachev because nobody hits or fights anymore and Kokolachev will bring more to the table.

Again Sweeney, Neely and Julien (fortunately) seem to have a much different opinon.

 

[Fenway]

good news is I think this topic will die down with the new stuff going on.




or at least I hope.

Well it didn't die and as we reach thread limit we shall continue here

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=106148747