Z-Less Line-up 18-19

[njx9]

Given that, I really wouldn't be surprised if last years Parenteau and Booth end up being a couple of unsigned centers at this years camp.

As long as they only get a 1 year deal (I don't know if that's inherent in PTOs or not), then meh. I don't ultimately see a lot of difference in that or bringing up Turgeon and sliding Helm around a bit to shelter him.

The crazy thing is that as much as the Nielsen and Helm signings are bemoaned, our Center depth would be non-existent without them.

Unless, of course, they'd signed other Cs for less term.

 

[SirloinUB]

Unless, of course, they'd signed other Cs for less term.

Unless of course, comparable Cs didn't want to sign here for less term. Works both ways.

Either way, we can't change the past and our current C depth would be nothing without them.

Further, Nielsen signed a 6 year contract in 16-17 and obviously played the last 2 years as a center. This season he will play center giving a minimum of 3 years of value on the contract. Realistically, unless Veleno and Rasmussen take a leap forward where they can step into a top 6 c role in 2019-2020 we will get 4 years of value.

With a declining salary it is quite possible we can move him to a team like Arizona to help their financials. You can argue that the contract was maybe a year too long but otherwise we have needed him.

 

[lilidk]

Bert and AA we're comfortable playing together

 

[njx9]

Unless of course, comparable Cs didn't want to sign here for less term. Works both ways.

So all Cs only signed for more term than Nielsen and Helm? Interesting theory.

Either way, we can't change the past and our current C depth would be nothing without them.

That's a super lame cop out. "We can't talk about the past except in some super hypothetical way wherein the Wings did literally absolutely nothing instead of something. God, just think, if the Wings hadn't made any draft picks since like, 1970, they wouldn't even have any players!"

Further, Nielsen signed a 6 year contract in 16-17 and obviously played the last 2 years as a center. This season he will play center giving a minimum of 3 years of value on the contract. Realistically, unless Veleno and Rasmussen take a leap forward where they can step into a top 6 c role in 2019-2020 we will get 4 years of value.

With a declining salary it is quite possible we can move him to a team like Arizona to help their financials. You can argue that the contract was maybe a year too long but otherwise we have needed him.

We definitely needed him. Just look at the standings, right? God forbid the Wings had signed like, Eric Staal for less term and less total dollars. What a dumpster fire that would've been. Frans Nielsen is the clear key to the rebuild.

 

[Winger98]

Unless of course, comparable Cs didn't want to sign here for less term. Works both ways.

Either way, we can't change the past and our current C depth would be nothing without them.

Further, Nielsen signed a 6 year contract in 16-17 and obviously played the last 2 years as a center. This season he will play center giving a minimum of 3 years of value on the contract. Realistically, unless Veleno and Rasmussen take a leap forward where they can step into a top 6 c role in 2019-2020 we will get 4 years of value.

With a declining salary it is quite possible we can move him to a team like Arizona to help their financials. You can argue that the contract was maybe a year too long but otherwise we have needed him.

comparable? At the time, I'm not sure there was a comparable. I'm not sure how comparable a different signing would have to be, though. If we're looking at a 2C, yeah, it's hard. If we're looking for a 3C, hell, there's still a few on the market now I'd give a look at for a 3/4C (Letestu, Shore, Stajan). If Z calls it quits this summer, and even if we didn't sign another C, what do we do? Larkin is the 1C. Maybe use Glendening as a 2/3C defensive center. Let Helm/Rasumussen center a 2/3C offensive line, and then Turgeon on the fourth line? Blashill would have to coach a bit more, but maybe that'd work out better for him.

I don't think the Nielsen signing is exactly killing us, but I think it's a symbol for how Holland is overly cautious and always takes the safest route when he makes a move. There's something to be said for limiting mistakes, it's what helped keep the playoff streak alive and put off this sort of crash and burn rebuild for so long. At the same time, it also comes off as timid and the lack of aggressiveness can be just as damaging.

 

[Go Wings]

well who knows when those things actually happen at this point

I could easily see Karlsson not being moved until the deadline now if he isn't moved within the next week or two which would give Ottawa ~75% of the season with him on the roster

Duchene I don't think they move at all unless he outright tells them he isn't coming back with how much they paid to acquire him just last year

and as for Stone wh0 knows

Montreal should be pretty awful yeah especially with Weber injured for a bunch of the season,although Price could always have a really good season and keep them from the very bottom I suppose

i'd add Vancouver to that list as well,they were pretty awful last year and while they have some young players and are bringing in Petersson who should help a bit they also lost 3 of their top 5 scorers

I am totallt fine with finishing dead last but I think there will be worse teams.

 

[ShelbyZ]

As long as they only get a 1 year deal (I don't know if that's inherent in PTOs or not), then meh. I don't ultimately see a lot of difference in that or bringing up Turgeon and sliding Helm around a bit to shelter him.

IIRC, the only PTO that was going to result in multiple years was the fabled (and failed) offer from the Flyers to bring Dan Cleary in on a PTO and sign a 3 year once they got some LTIR relief after the season started.

The bonus would be that a one year to a guy like Letestu/Winnik/Vermette/Stajan could bring in another mid to late round pick at the deadline.

 

[SirloinUB]

So all Cs only signed for more term than Nielsen and Helm? Interesting theory.

The point is that with Datysuk and Zetterberg's departures we needed someone who was capable of playing top 6 minutes as a center. So no, you probably couldn't find an alternative to Nielsen on a contract that is materially different.

That's a super lame cop out. "We can't talk about the past except in some super hypothetical way wherein the Wings did literally absolutely nothing instead of something. God, just think, if the Wings hadn't made any draft picks since like, 1970, they wouldn't even have any players!"

Way to deliberately misrepresent the point with a ridiculous hyperbole. We weren't going to bring in a random 4th liner to replace Datsyuk/Zetterberg.

We definitely needed him. Just look at the standings, right? God forbid the Wings had signed like, Eric Staal for less term and less total dollars. What a dumpster fire that would've been. Frans Nielsen is the clear key to the rebuild.

1) Despite your sarcasm, you're now acting like Nielsen is some kind of determent to the organization. Care to back that one up?

2) I would have preferred Staal, but who says he has interest in playing in Detroit? You’re judging the moves Holland made as if we live in some EAsports vacuum were things like personal preferences don’t affect who wants to sign where, and what contract they would demand. Sorry, but that's ridiculous. You can't just assume that the Staal contract was an option to us

 

[Left handed]

Man this is going to be sad. No Z does make us the worst team in the league in my opinion.

I find this exceptionally difficult to believe. There are far worse teams than the Wings. Especially with the young talent we have coming up.

 

[ThankGord]

Doesn't seem like many people have confidence in AA at center, but I'd like to see what Bert / AA / Vanek would look like. AA and Vanek had good chemistry and Bert could cover their asses and do the dirty work.

Maybe something like:

Ras / Larks / Big Tony
Abby / Frans / Gus
Bert / AA / Vanek
Svech / Helm / Glendening / Frk

 

[lilidk]

Doesn't seem like many people have confidence in AA at center, but I'd like to see what Bert / AA / Vanek would look like. AA and Vanek had good chemistry and Bert could cover their asses and do the dirty work.

Maybe something like:

Ras / Larks / Big Tony
Abby / Frans / Gus
Bert / AA / Vanek
Svech / Helm / Glendening / Frk

Is big Tony Rasmussen?
I am with you about AA

 

[ThankGord]

Is big Tony Rasmussen?
I am with you about AA

Anthony "Big Tony" Mantha
I've got Ras there with him on the wing though.

 

[Eye of Ra]

seeing Glendening - Abdelkader ,helm on peoples lineups...makes me puke. when will they go away.

 

[lilidk]

seeing Glendening - Abdelkader ,helm on peoples lineups...makes me puke. when will they go away.

If you get rid of them we almost guaranty to get Hughes. Not a bad thing after all

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

If Zadina is ready.

Mantha- Larkin - Zadina
Vanek- Athanasiou - Rasmussen
Nyquist - Nielsen -Bertuzzi
Helm-Glenny-Abdelkader

It's contingent on a lot of things, but if everything goes right, that would be a very fun forward corp to watch.

If Zadina isn't ready.

Mantha-Larkin-Bertuzzi
Vanek-Athanasiou-Rasmussen
Nyquist-Nielsen- Abdelkader
Helm-Glen-Frk

If you get rid of them we almost guaranty to get Hughes. Not a bad thing after all

I doubt Abdelkader is going anywhere, no one is touching that contract and for better or worse, the Wings have decided to make him a "leader". I would not be opposed to retaining a million in salary to move Helm come TDL, I think Helm at 2.8 is a reasonable contract to move.

Either way, I want some spots opened up post TDL. Ship Nyquist for what we can get, if he wants to come back he always can in the summer.

 

[Shaman464]

If Zadina is ready.

Mantha- Larkin - Zadina
Vanek- Athanasiou - Rasmussen
Nyquist - Nielsen -Bertuzzi
Helm-Glenny-Abdelkader

It's contingent on a lot of things, but if everything goes right, that would be a very fun forward corp to watch.

If Zadina isn't ready.

Mantha-Larkin-Bertuzzi
Vanek-Athanasiou-Rasmussen
Nyquist-Nielsen- Abdelkader
Helm-Glen-Frk



I doubt Abdelkader is going anywhere, no one is touching that contract and for better or worse, the Wings have decided to make him a "leader". I would not be opposed to retaining a million in salary to move Helm come TDL, I think Helm at 2.8 is a reasonable contract to move.

Either way, I want some spots opened up post TDL. Ship Nyquist for what we can get, if he wants to come back he always can in the summer.

AA shouldn't even be a top 6 winger, let alone a top 6 center. That line would have a team record for highest GA/min.

 

[Henkka]

AA shouldn't even be a top 6 winger, let alone a top 6 center. That line would have a team record for highest GA/min.

High GA/min gives you high pick.

 

[Shaman464]

High GA/min gives you high pick.

A team sans Z doesn't need any more help being a dumpster fire.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

AA shouldn't even be a top 6 winger, let alone a top 6 center. That line would have a team record for highest GA/min.

So it will be fun to watch AND help lose for Hughes!? Omfg, even better than I initially thought

 

[Henkka]

I dunno. I think Athanasiou would be the guy I would experiment at Center, if Z is done.

If he is bad, then we can say, "we already knew this". If he suddenly succeeds, hell yeah.

 

[Winger98]

I dunno. I think Athanasiou would be the guy I would experiment at Center, if Z is done.

If he is bad, then we can say, "we already knew this". If he suddenly succeeds, hell yeah.

I think the problem with Athanasiou at center is that you're probably going to get the same guy we get at wing, which will just put greater pressure on his wings to cover for him defensively. I'm not against trying it, but I'd rather just slide Rasmussen into the third line center spot behind Larkin and Nielsen. His minutes and match-ups could be cherry picked a bit, and we have enough talent to still put someone decent on his wings.

Bertuzzi-Larkin-Mantha
Vanek-Nielsen-Athanasiou
Gator-Ras-Nyquist

Deal Vanek and Nyquist later, bring up Zadina and Svech, and we're on our way.

 

[lilidk]

AA should be 3 line center were other 2 forwards plays defense first and always looking to give puck to AA .

 

[Wingsfan 4 life]

I really don't see the point in posting all 4 lines. Blash juggled the lineups last year with Z. He'll be doing the same without Z.

Larkin-Mantha; Nielson-Nyquist; AA-Vanek are probably the only relatively constant duos we'll see together for a good chunk of the year.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

So it will be fun to watch AND help lose for Hughes!? Omfg, even better than I initially thought

I'm sorry but my team giving up easy goals and odd man rushes is not fun to watch for me. I've had it happen to me personally far too often.

And just because AA is giving up a ton of opportunities the other way does not mean that he's going to be a 40 goal scorer in top 6 C time. Just because we give up a ton of goals does not mean that all of a sudden we are going to score a bunch too.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

And also, AA shouldn't be a center at all if he doesn't up his compete level. As C, you gotta be the one helping the D out and have to commit to playing more of a two way game. Try it in the pre-season maybe and tell him it's something he's got to do. But if he's going to coast, he can't be a C. If there are any questions about his heart and energy, I don't want him there.