Your Top 6 for the Draft

[Frk It]

I think the thing being lost on MacTavish is the people who watched him this year feel like he’s improved a ton since last year. Brock Otren (who covers OHL players year round) said he was not as high on Mason going into the year, but he improved in every area where he had questions. Which is what you want to see.

So unless you took time to watch him play in the Swiss league, do we really know where he’s at? The only time I saw him play was at the U18s, and he looked pretty damn good to me.

 

[jkutswings]

People are all over the place on McTavish. This report questions his passing, skating, quick decision making, and play in transition, and projects him as a, "Top Nine Center/Top Six Winger (NHL). Depends mainly on how he is deployed."

Scouting Report: Mason McTavish - Smaht Scouting



While this one says he's as good a setup man as he is a scorer, anticipates well, should be a good center, and projects as a top line power forward.

2021 Draft Profile: W/C Mason McTavish



I think I'm just going to stop reading (let alone believing) any of this stuff. I'll flip through McKenzie's final rankings this summer, but I honestly don't even care who Detroit drafts anymore. I'll trust their staff to develop a guy as best they can, and we'll see what happens.

This draft class is as clear as mud. Wake me when Seider dons the winged wheel.

 

[lilidk]

People are all over the place on McTavish. This report questions his passing, skating, quick decision making, and play in transition, and projects him as a, "Top Nine Center/Top Six Winger (NHL). Depends mainly on how he is deployed."

Scouting Report: Mason McTavish - Smaht Scouting



While this one says he's as good a setup man as he is a scorer, anticipates well, should be a good center, and projects as a top line power forward.

2021 Draft Profile: W/C Mason McTavish



I think I'm just going to stop reading (let alone believing) any of this stuff. I'll flip through McKenzie's final rankings this summer, but I honestly don't even care who Detroit drafts anymore. I'll trust their staff to develop a guy as best they can, and we'll see what happens.

This draft class is as clear as mud. Wake me when Seider dons the winged wheel.

About 4 months ago before world Junior world cup in Dobber prospects they said about McTavish ,he has hockey Iq and unbelievable shot, but problem with him it's his ethics consistency and he stands around too much.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Wonder if Price's performance puts more of a premium on Wallstedt. If you don't have an elite goaltender or goaltender prospect, you'd suddenly sleep a lot better if you did.

 

[jkutswings]

Wonder if Price's performance puts more of a premium on Wallstedt. If you don't have an elite goaltender or goaltender prospect, you'd suddenly sleep a lot better if you did.

Let's take a larger sample size:

NHL Conn Smythe Trophy Winners

In the modern era, I'd argue that it's every 4-5 years on average that a netminder catches lightning in a bottle and really puts his team on his back in the playoffs. Thomas, Quick, and Ward came to mind for me, and I had forgotten that Giguere won it in a losing effort. (Roy got the MVP in 2001, but that team was stacked top to bottom, winning the President's Trophy and having 5-6 guys around PPG scoring in both the regular season and the playoffs, not to mention the "win it for Ray Bourque" motivation that ran through the entire season. So despite Roy's great playoff numbers, I don't consider his impact in quite the same breath as the others on the list.)

So yeah, a Habs championship because of Price would advance that pattern, but I don't think it elevates the position. I think it's just a continuation of the fact that while you always need GOOD goaltending, you can sometimes get carried by ELITE goaltending.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

And we've officially lost cabin pressure.

Beniers is widely ranked as the top center in this class - possibly the only center in this top ten - and he's being talked about as being in the ballpark of Larkin.

It is indeed POSSIBLE that Mason McTavish ends up a better NHL player than Dylan Larkin, and maybe even a better NHL center. But if he does, he will significantly out kick his coverage when it comes to pre draft evaluations.

This is precisely WHY we should not reach for a center. There's no point.

 

[Henkka]

How good is Chaz Lucius?

Another center option at #6.

 

[Henkka]

This is precisely WHY we should not reach for a center. There's no point.

We'll take the best player, reach or not. It could be anybody from top18, just like Seider was.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

We'll take the best player, reach or not. It could be anybody from top18, just like Seider was.

By all accounts, Seider was their guy at 6 no matter what. I don't think they reached for him because he was a defenseman. If McTavish is their guy, I trust their judgement, I just don't think it's worth reaching for a player because of a specific position they play.

 

[jkutswings]

This is precisely WHY we should not reach for a center. There's no point.

Agreed. But hopefully they manage to find a Point somewhere anyway.

 

[lilidk]

We'll take the best player, reach or not. It could be anybody from top18, just like Seider was.

We got simple lucky with Seider. Yzerman, tried to get the best available defenseman. I don't think anyone could expect that kind of progress after the draft
Let's see if Yzerman will try to get best available center this time.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

How good is Chaz Lucius?

Another center option at #6.

I’m not a fan. He’s about as one way a center as there is in this draft.

 

[William Rusco]

We got simple lucky with Seider. Yzerman, tried to get the best available defenseman. I don't think anyone could expect that kind of progress after the draft
Let's see if Yzerman will try to get best available center this time.

I don't think any luck was involved. I think StevieY knew what he was looking for and Seider was his man.

His progress may have been a suprise, or not. My question is has Saider under, met or over exceded expectations.

 

[jkutswings]

I don't think any luck was involved. I think StevieY knew what he was looking for and Seider was his man.

His progress may have been a suprise, or not. My question is has Saider under, met or over exceded expectations.

I think scouting a player is about two things: where a guy is now, and where you expect vs hope him to go.

Yzerman saw an existing skill set in Seider that he liked, and bet that he'd continue to round out his game enough to justify a #6 selection. But I think even Yzerman has to be pleasantly surprised at what Mo has done thus far.

 

[Killerjas]

McTavish is a middle 6 player. I am sorry but I want more than that from a top 6 pick

 

[Hen Kolland]

I don't think any luck was involved. I think StevieY knew what he was looking for and Seider was his man.

His progress may have been a suprise, or not. My question is has Saider under, met or over exceded expectations.

Exceeded. By a wide margin. Consider what was thought of him on draft day and think about all the things he’s done and has shown since then. Excelling in the AHL, tearing up the SHL, leading Team Germany in most international events.

From draft day to today we aren’t even talking about the same prospect that we thought we got.

 

[lilidk]

McTavish is a middle 6 player. I an sorry but I want more than that from a top 6 pick

Is anyone in this draft first line? It's all depends on progress. Mctavish have big progress compare to last year. Eklund could be first line wing, but that's about it

 

[Frk It]

I think there was definitely skill in drafting Seider. I think it was a good and gutsy evaluation. To take a kid playing in a men's league and say, OK even though he is not being currently utilized this way, I think he shows flashes of doing these things at a high level in the future requires skill to me.

Just like I think there was some skill in the previous scouting staff scouting Hronek. To take a kid playing tiny minutes in a Czech mens league, and say we think he has these abilities and can be a player, and then to be right based on that limited role, that requires skill to me. You have to really trust your eyes.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

We got simple lucky with Seider. Yzerman, tried to get the best available defenseman. I don't think anyone could expect that kind of progress after the draft
Let's see if Yzerman will try to get best available center this time.

Seider wasn’t even the next best defenseman on essentially every draft board leading up that night. I think Yzerman and his team legitimately just had Seider at 6. He was their guy after Turcotte went.

 

[lilidk]

Seider wasn’t even the next best defenseman on essentially every draft board leading up that night. I think Yzerman and his team legitimately just had Seider at 6. He was their guy after Turcotte went.

between Broberg and Seider SY decided to go with Seider . Broberg was moving down on the mock draft , Seider was moving up . This season Raty moving down and McTavish moving up. In 2017 Liljegren went down , 2018 Veleno ,Last year it was Lundell went down and Sanderson went up, but we dont know who will progress and Yzerman dont know also . we have plenty picks in first 3 rounds , hope we get some luck and get 3-4 good NHL players

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

between Broberg and Seider SY decided to go with Seider . Broberg was moving down on the mock draft , Seider was moving up . This season Raty moving down and McTavish moving up. In 2017 Liljegren went down , 2018 Veleno ,Last year it was Lundell went down and Sanderson went up, but we dont know who will progress and Yzerman dont know also . we have plenty picks in first 3 rounds , hope we get some luck and get 3-4 good NHL players

Many lists had Harley and York ahead of Seider as well, so it’s not just Broberg.

 

[lilidk]

if we get McTavish i see lines in couple years
Bertuzzi - Larkin Fabbri
Rasmussen- Veleno - Zadina
Bergreen -McTavish- Raymond
we simply have 3 first lines and we should compete for the cup
on defense
big name defenseman- Seider
Johansson - Hronek
Sebrango, Tuomisto , Viro, Mcisaac, Wallinder, Cholo.
After this draft this team just need to get right coach

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

if we get McTavish i see lines in couple years
Bertuzzi - Larkin Fabbri
Rasmussen- Veleno - Zadina
Bergreen -McTavish- Raymond
we simply have 3 first lines and we should compete for the cup
on defense
big name defenseman- Seider
Johansson - Hronek
Sebrango, Tuomisto , Viro, Mcisaac, Wallinder, Cholo.
After this draft this team just need to get right coach

If that's our roster in 2 years time we're looking at another top 10 pick unless Raymond gets 80 points and Seider becomes the 2000 version of Chris Pronger. I like what we're seeing out of the young guys like Veleno, Berggren, Raymond, Johansson, Sebrango, Viro and Seider. Those all look like sure bet players to me. Fabbri if healthy is good for 40-50 points and I like the guy but I don't know if he's going to be here long term. Larkin really needs to channel his inner MacKinnon to be worth keeping because if we're getting the 2019-2020 and 2020-21 Larkin then he can be replaced.

It's likely that both Bertuzzi and Hronek are both gone in 3 years time. And Rasmussen simply doesn't have the hands for a top 6 role. He's another guy I wouldn't be surprised to see on his way out in the next couple of seasons if he doesn't produce. And Cholowski is either gone in a trade this upcoming season or at the end of the season. I think Zadina buys himself some leash if he produces 20+ goals next year but if he doesn't then he could see himself on the way out just as well.

Simply put, anyone that we drafted or was on the roster prior to 2018 could be moved. Bertuzzi/Larkin/Mantha/Hronek are not our core moving forward. If Larkin and Bertuzzi are on our first line 3 years from now then Yzerman f***ed up.

McTavish at #6 should not be a 3rd line center, and if we really think that's where he is 3 years from now then we just drafted another Rasmussen. Let's not repeat that mistake. We should be drafting him if we think he's a surefire top 6er as either a winger who can provide an element that neither Raymond, Berggren or Zadina provide, or we should be drafting him as a center because we see him with top 6 upside as a pain in the ass matchup guy like Brock Nelson, David Backes, Mikko Koivu, Bobby Holik and guys of that ilk.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Many lists had Harley and York ahead of Seider as well, so it’s not just Broberg.

Dude Seider was ranked so low because he was terribly underscouted. The DEL doesn't get as much press as it should, especially in recent years with a good influx of German talent to the league since Draisaitl.

Yzerman said in a presser a while ago he doesn't get scared off by the league the player is in and used Cale Makar as an example of a guy people were skeptical of because the league he played in. There were probably plenty of scouts who had Seider lower on their boards simply because he played in a lower division at the WJC and played in the DEL instead of the SHL. We didn't make that mistake.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Dude Seider was ranked so low because he was terribly underscouted. The DEL doesn't get as much press as it should, especially in recent years with a good influx of German talent to the league since Draisaitl.

Yzerman said in a presser a while ago he doesn't get scared off by the league the player is in and used Cale Makar as an example of a guy people were skeptical of because the league he played in. There were probably plenty of scouts who had Seider lower on their boards simply because he played in a lower division at the WJC and played in the DEL instead of the SHL. We didn't make that mistake.

You are misreading my entire point. I’m not saying Seider was bad or a bad pick. I am saying I believe Yzerman chose Seider at 6 because he had him ranked at 6, not because he was trying to reach for a defenseman at 6.

My whole point is to take the best player available and to not reach for someone based on position.