Your Desired Result for ROR ?

[BobRossColton]

Since we're going to have to deal with a Barrie and Mac extension, I say trade.

 

[18Mike18]

I would like a defensive playmaking centre and a Top 4 LHD for ROR + Holden + pick. I want him traded at all costs, I like him alot and wish he would stay, but after losing Stastny, this team cant go though that again.

 

[Boud]

I'm just wondering what would it take to get O'Reilly considering he is a UFA. Would something like:

Zibanejad, Dal 2nd Rounder, Freddy Claesson/ Patrick Wiercioch

vs

O'reilly

or something like

Tinordi, Lekhonen ?

Really not sure what type of return he would land considering he could also be used as a rental

 

[bohlmeister]

I am a firm believer in getting the best player in a trade. Add to ROR if you have to, but bring in a better player. Most of the time the package deals end up being garbage. The Carter and Richards are ones that have worked well for Philly.

So get either a #1 winger, or get a top pairing defeseman.

I understand that the cupboards are bare, and that it seems like a better move to get a few pieces. But they won't be as good of pieces. You can't trade core players for role players. Get a good player.

 

[RockLobster]

I wish people would stop calling him a UFA...he's not a UFA after this season, he still has another year left.

I perfectly understand being hesitant to trade for him given that he is a UFA in 1.5 seasons, but the team that trades for him is going to have an idea of what it will take to sign him (I personally don't believe it will be $7M, I think it'll be closer to 6.75M, but that's neither here nor there) to a long term contract extension.

 

[henchman21]

I am a firm believer in getting the best player in a trade. Add to ROR if you have to, but bring in a better player. Most of the time the package deals end up being garbage. The Carter and Richards are ones that have worked well for Philly.

So get either a #1 winger, or get a top pairing defeseman.

I understand that the cupboards are bare, and that it seems like a better move to get a few pieces. But they won't be as good of pieces. You can't trade core players for role players. Get a good player.

ROR is going to be the best player in the trade. First, because teams that want him will be trying to get better and compete in the playoffs. Second, because he makes too much money and a deal with ROR + is going to have 7-9m in salary moving out. Those deals are very hard to pull off in today's NHL.

 

[bohlmeister]

Then we are going to lose the trade.

Roy should let Sherman make this trade. He has a better track record.

 

[henchman21]

Then we are going to lose the trade.

People are certainly going to think so... the board here will meltdown for a while .

I can see ways the Avs can win one of those deals, and ways they can lose them. Both are somewhat likely at this point. It really depends on the team they trade him to.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Then we are going to lose the trade.

Roy should let Sherman make this trade. He has a better track record.

Well, if Bob McKenzie is to be trusted (he is), the Avs will have their fair share of suitors.

http://www.nicholsonhockey.com/worthreading/2015/1/6/mckenzie-avs-oreilly-would-generate-huge-interest-on-trade-market

“The only thing I know of what’s going on in Colorado now is what I read over the Christmas break and there have been suggestions out of Denver that Ryan O’Reilly is available. And if he is, that’ll generate huge interest. It really will. Because the Avalanche aren’t having a great year. O’Reilly is not having a great year. And yet he’s one of those players who general managers really covet because they think he’s got a ridiculous hockey IQ, tremendous competitive instincts and does have the ability not to be a high-end offensive player, but to be a top-two line center that can play the 200-foot game as well as anybody in the NHL.

“So if he’s available, there would be substantial interest and the price would be extremely high, and Colorado would try to get out of the slump they’re in and they obviously need defensemen. There’s no queston about that.â€

 

[Mosby]

Coyotes fan here. I know this has been discussed ad nauseum before, but Yandle for O'Reilly?

 

[tigervixxxen]

Coyotes fan here. I know this has been discussed ad nauseum before, but Yandle for O'Reilly?

No because Yandle is UFA at the same time O'Reilly is, it's just rearranging assets and doesn't help us.

 

[henchman21]

I think from a value perspective a Yandle for ROR swap makes sense, but it really doesn't make sense for either organization.

 

[Avs71]

I wonder if the Avs hold onto O'Reilly till July, offer him a long term deal at 6 even though his point totals declined, and keep him at center, if that would be enough to keep him.

 

[FoppaForsberg*]

Honestly, if we could keep ROR on a long term 6, 6.5M type deal & then trade Duchene for a solid Dman I'd be ecstatic.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

I wonder if the Avs hold onto O'Reilly till July, offer him a long term deal at 6 even though his point totals declined, and keep him at center, if that would be enough to keep him.

You can't hold onto O'Reilly that long. If he's getting traded, it has to be at the draft, at the latest. Anything past that, his value goes down and teams start losing cap space because of free agency.

I'm not convinced he'd sign a deal with us anyway, even if it was offered. Last time the Avs tried to negotiate early with him, they were told to wait until the summer. The Avs cannot risk that again.

 

[InjuredChoker]

You can't hold onto O'Reilly that long. If he's getting traded, it has to be at the draft, at the latest. Anything past that, his value goes down and teams start losing cap space because of free agency.

I'm not convinced he'd sign a deal with us anyway, even if it was offered. Last time the Avs tried to negotiate early with him, they were told to wait until the summer. The Avs cannot risk that again.

i'd change that to early july. he can immediately agree to an extension with an other team by then.

but it can't go much longer, like until august when most teams have their rosters set.

 

[Avs71]

You can't hold onto O'Reilly that long. If he's getting traded, it has to be at the draft, at the latest. Anything past that, his value goes down and teams start losing cap space because of free agency.

I'm not convinced he'd sign a deal with us anyway, even if it was offered. Last time the Avs tried to negotiate early with him, they were told to wait until the summer. The Avs cannot risk that again.

True. I guess there is really no rule against agreeing in principle to a contract and waiting to sign it on July 1st. Technically they could know before the draft whether he would agree to stay on those terms.

 

[Avs For Life]

I may be in the minority here but I think ROR's return depends a bit on what the organization thinks Bigras can be. If they really think Bigras is EJ's future partner, we need to get a Dman and at least a decent forward prospect.

I'm with everyone in that we need a partner for EJ but we also will have a hole to fill in the top 6. A fairly large hole too.

Just something to consider.

 

[Pokecheque]

Then we are going to lose the trade.

Roy should let Sherman make this trade. He has a better track record.

How so? The Briere and Tanguay deals look pretty damned good right about now. The Berra deal looks really bad right now, but I guess that's the price you pay when you give Francois Allaire that much say in personnel matters. Sometimes he's going to get it wrong, but given what he's done for Varly and Picks, I can't say it's all that regrettable. And even I have to admit the jury is still out on the Stuart deal. It's the friggin' extension I hate more than anything else, there was absolutely no reason to do it that early. Doesn't mean the trade was bad, I'm not a fan of it, but we'll see if he's at least a capable depth defender.

We really, really need to get away from the whole notion of "winning" or "losing" a trade. The only questions that should be asked are:

1. Did the team get good value?
2. Did they address a weakness?
3. Were they able to mitigate what was lost in the trade?

If all those questions are adequately answered, then there should be no problem.

You're not going to get a stud defenseman for Ryan O'Reilly straight-up. Given the realities of the salary cap and other factors, it's likely going to be a package deal coming the other way, which means, yes, lesser players coming back in return. But if the return fills holes in the lineup capably, then I'm fine with the deal.

Seriously, even in Lacroix's heyday, he really only "won" one of his big trades. The others cost quite a bit in terms of assets given up. And the circumstances behind his one clear win, the circumstances were quite unique. And given the fallout from that deal (Roy, Houle, Tremblay, and "Red Light" Racicot) it's highly unlikely we'll ever see something like that ever again.

 

[JoemAvs]

How so? The Briere and Tanguay deals look pretty damned good right about now. The Berra deal looks really bad right now, but I guess that's the price you pay when you give Francois Allaire that much say in personnel matters. Sometimes he's going to get it wrong, but given what he's done for Varly and Picks, I can't say it's all that regrettable. And even I have to admit the jury is still out on the Stuart deal. It's the friggin' extension I hate more than anything else, there was absolutely no reason to do it that early. Doesn't mean the trade was bad, I'm not a fan of it, but we'll see if he's at least a capable depth defender.

We really, really need to get away from the whole notion of "winning" or "losing" a trade. The only questions that should be asked are:

1. Did the team get good value?
2. Did they address a weakness?
3. Were they able to mitigate what was lost in the trade?

If all those questions are adequately answered, then there should be no problem.

You're not going to get a stud defenseman for Ryan O'Reilly straight-up. Given the realities of the salary cap and other factors, it's likely going to be a package deal coming the other way, which means, yes, lesser players coming back in return. But if the return fills holes in the lineup capably, then I'm fine with the deal.

Seriously, even in Lacroix's heyday, he really only "won" one of his big trades. The others cost quite a bit in terms of assets given up. And the circumstances behind his one clear win, the circumstances were quite unique. And given the fallout from that deal (Roy, Houle, Tremblay, and "Red Light" Racicot) it's highly unlikely we'll ever see something like that ever again.

The jury is not out on the Stuart deal.
He flat out was not worth a 2nd after coming off of a terrible season with the Sharks.
The same way UFA to be Berra was never ever worth a 2nd to anyone but the Avs.
Rookie management made rookie mistakes.


The extension is a whole other (terrible) story.
I am not a fan of paying 3.6M to a bottom pairing defender.
Even if he is your 4th best Dman at the moment.


The thing with "winning" and "losing" trades is exactly your point 1:

Did the team get good value?
And the answer to almost all of the trades (besides the Tangs deal) is No.

Major reason why our prospect pool is probably the worst in the league.


I also completely disagree with your assesment on the ROR situation.
It is about getting the best possible value (probably picks + prospects at this point).
Not getting a few mediocre roster players to fill some holes.


EDIT:

There is also a reason why Lacroix could afford to lose deals.

It is called the Lindros trade.
We "won" that trade so bad that we could afford to make some bad deals down the line and still win some championships.

I would make the argument that they should have even won more with all the great talent they had and that some of those trades really cost the Avs.
In the end it did not matter and we will never know but it certainly is no blueprint for success for this current team.

Also: No salary cap.

 

[Pokecheque]

The jury is not out on the Stuart deal.
He flat out was not worth a 2nd after coming off of a terrible season with the Sharks.
The same way UFA to be Berra was never ever worth a 2nd to anyone but the Avs.
Rookie management made rookie mistakes.


The extension is a whole other (terrible) story.
I am not a fan of paying 3.6M to a bottom pairing defender.
Even if he is your 4th best Dman at the moment.


The thing with "winning" and "losing" trades is exactly your point 1:

Did the team get good value?
And the answer to almost all of the trades (besides the Tangs deal) is No.

Major reason why our prospect pool is probably the worst in the league.


I also completely disagree with your assesment on the ROR situation.
It is about getting the best possible value (probably picks + prospects at this point).
Not getting a few mediocre roster players to fill some holes.


EDIT:

There is also a reason why Lacroix could afford to lose deals.

It is called the Lindros trade.
We "won" that trade so bad that we could afford to make some bad deals down the line and still win some championships.

I would make the argument that they should have even won more with all the great talent they had and that some of those trades really cost the Avs.
In the end it did not matter and we will never know but it certainly is no blueprint for success for this current team.

Also: No salary cap.

Well, I guess there's another question that needs to be asked then:

1a. Did the team accomplish its intended goal with the trade?

Because they absolutely did with the PAP/Briere deal. I'm not sure how anyone can argue with that one given current circumstances. I wasn't happy with the deal at first because I thought the Avs traded a somewhat decent scoring winger for a washed-up vet, but given the fact that Briere has been far better than expected and Parenteau is currently failing with a much more talented Habs squad, I'm more than okay with it. Even if Briere goes into the toilet from here on out, his salary comes off the books at season's end. Parenteau's doesn't. The trade was done for cap considerations--the fact the Avs got the better player (so far) in the deal is just gravy.

Again, not at all happy with the Stuart acquisition--just saying there's still a chance he's decent value. If he adds ANY sort of stability to a blueline that's had anything but, then I'll be fine with the trade. Not thrilled, but okay with it.

The Berra deal looks like a flat-out bust, but what can ya do...that's still two big wins (Varlamov, Pickard) and one loss (Berra) for Allaire. I mean, we can say the team missed out on Ben Scrivens, but he's played just about as badly.

As far as ROR goes, realistically I just don't think the market is gonna cough up what you think it will. This is a guy who has had two pretty public contract disputes and is already making $6 million. Whatever team takes him on is already going to know that they'll likely have to pay upwards of $7 million just to keep him. That already limits the number of suitors by a large margin. I foresee a deal along the lines of Tyler Seguin, but hopefully it'll yield better value than that travesty.

 

[doug88]

Preds fan here. Would love to see Jones for ROR given that Weber is untouchable and Poile would move Jones over Josi since he's a lefty. You might wanna add Fiala as well to make it fair.

 

[Frenchy]

Preds fan here. Would love to see Jones for ROR given that Weber is untouchable and Poile would move Jones over Josi since he's a lefty. You might wanna add Fiala as well to make it fair.

I believe a lot of Avs fans would be listening, to a trade offer involving those two.
I dont think it's realistic because Jones is untouchable with the Preds, but IF in fact by a miracle he's involve in trade talks, many Avs fans would be willing to pay a kings ransom to land Jones

 

[Nihiliste]

I think when you trade a player like O'reilly, it's very hard to get something back that you would be as satisfied with on the ice. But when you compare trading him versus losing him for nothing it becomes an essential decision and you do what you can.

 

[Pokecheque]

I definitely think if he gets traded it'll be this offseason. If contract talks run aground again then no doubt whatsoever. Can't imagine he'll be dealt during this season though--he's way too integral to what Roy is trying to do out there right now.