Post-Game Talk: Your 5 "Goats" of this debacle against the Sharks

[Buck Dancer]

This is where it actually helps to know a damn thing about the team you’re talking about. Look at San Jose’s roster. They have more undersized players than us.

Being big on the puck isn't always about size. I didn't think I had to spell that out for you but I guess I do since you're conviently ignoring it for some reason I can't seem to grasp.

We have smallish finesse players and the big forwards we do have get bullied off the puck easily. Outside of Mercer and Johnsson, who are two small guys that play big, we have a cast of pushovers. You might not like it, but that's our reality and opposing teams aren't scared one bit of us. We don't dump and chase because we don't have the guys to force turnovers by having opposing dmen look over their shoulder when retreiving the puck in the corner. Stacking up the blueline in order to deny our zone entries is what led us to look like we couldn't get anything going but we tried over and over to do the same thing and unfortunatly for us, we got the same results. We have the roster to play one style and if we can't generate speed in the neutral zone, we're basically cooked.

Shooting pucks from everywhere doesn't mean we had a good period, which would be the 1st period. We lost the game in the 2nd and in the 3rd, the Sharks were going all out in a prevent defense since they had a 4 goal lead, making us look more dangerous then we really were. If they would've kept playing like they did for 40 minutes, we honestly could've lost by 6 or 7 goals. It took Blackwood to make 2 or 3 five star saves in order for us not to go down by 5.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Not what I meant. I said that we've had periods where they dominated possession, time on puck and all that and still couldn't score. The games against Wild, Panthers (two of the best 5v5 teams in the league), first period last night... Devils played big boy hockey and couldn't score then the other team strikes back and score at will... Of course I'd love to have some bigger guys in our top9, I just feel like what we most need is skilled players regardless of their size.

But the thing is you can dominate possession and even shots but it doesn’t mean you’re generating quality. That’s basically what happened in the first period last night. And yeah there’s times when we do generate quality but the finish isn’t there…but I think the bigger problem than that, is generating that kind of quality consistently. And it seems evident that part of the reason they struggle to consistently generate quality is the inability to play a big strong game when needed.

I’m not at all advocating that Fitz pick up guys who are only a specific size. Small guys can play a big game. It’s just that there’s not that many of those types of players. If your team is filled with small guys, the likelihood that even half of them can play heavy is not very high. Those are most likely going to be finesse guys.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Why did the lineup decisions sabotage the team in the 2nd, but not the first?

I do agree bad periods happen sometimes.

I don’t think they were great in the 1st either, just that San Jose really didn’t generate anything save for a fairly lucky rebound goal. It just didn’t make sense to put a guy that has always stunk at wing on Nico’s wing and put a guy that always stinks in the middle at center.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Because they’re an extremely young team that is average (and their most important forward was clearly very rusty). Average teams will be up and down.

Agree with the bolded. We need a volume shooter. That has little to do with what you’re talking about though.

This is where I think we fundamentally disagree. The ability to get off high danger shots consistently is influenced by a players ability to be strong on the puck (or at minimum have someone else on the line who is).

 

[Triumph]

The Devils have an average offense so far this season and that is in spite of a horrible power play. This idea of 'the Devils can't score on these big fast teams' is also rooted in old knowledge about teams - people just have outdated ideas about who is on the Sharks. It's not the Sharks of 5 years ago.

The Devils started forcing plays when they were down 3-0 - a lot of pass attempts that went nowhere. This to me is more a sign of inexperience, of trying to get everything back at once. They settled down bit in the third but still gave up some bad chances against.

 

[Buck Dancer]

I don’t think they were great in the 1st either, just that San Jose really didn’t generate anything save for a fairly lucky rebound goal. It just didn’t make sense to put a guy that has always stunk at wing on Nico’s wing and put a guy that always stinks in the middle at center.

I do agree that we looked better when they swapped both guys but we were also playing a team that was up by 4 with 20 minutes left and took their feet off the gas so to speak.

 

[devilsblood]

I don’t think they were great in the 1st either, just that San Jose really didn’t generate anything save for a fairly lucky rebound goal. It just didn’t make sense to put a guy that has always stunk at wing on Nico’s wing and put a guy that always stinks in the middle at center.

Is Hughes the guy who always stinks at wing?

Zacha was probably our best player last night. And that includes when he was playing center.

 

[Mgd31]

I don’t think they were great in the 1st either, just that San Jose really didn’t generate anything save for a fairly lucky rebound goal. It just didn’t make sense to put a guy that has always stunk at wing on Nico’s wing and put a guy that always stinks in the middle at center.

This is true, I don't think the first period was that great. We had more shots , but definitely less high danger changes than the Sharks, and from the start the Hischier Hughes line did not work.

 

[devilsblood]

Being as how I can't trust NST anymore regarding faceoffs, don't hold me to this.

But I'm seeing zero faceoffs taken for Hughes. Him starting at wing may have been an effort to protect the shoulder from the dots.

 

[devilsblood]

This is true, I don't think the first period was that great. We had more shots , but definitely less high danger changes than the Sharks, and from the start the Hischier Hughes line did not work.

We started the game pretty well, and were certainly better to start the game then we were in the middle of the game.

Just not buying that the line combinations were at the root of this loss.

 

[MartyOwns]

.500 hockey, on pace for 90 points. i’ll take it. at this rate, special teams will probably prevent us from clinching a spot, which is annoying.

 

[Triumph]

Being as how I can't trust NST anymore regarding faceoffs, don't hold me to this.

But I'm seeing zero faceoffs taken for Hughes. Him starting at wing may have been an effort to protect the shoulder from the dots.

You should stop using that site for faceoffs, but it is true that Hughes did not take any faceoffs last night. The other winger on his line stepped in when Nico was thrown out.

Still, they could put Sharangovich on his wing and let Yegor take all the faceoffs. It sucks, but I think it's an improvement.

 

[Buck Dancer]

.500 hockey, on pace for 90 points. i’ll take it. at this rate, special teams will probably prevent us from clinching a spot, which is annoying.

We are definitly moving forward and that is mostly linked to the play of Johnsson, Mercer and Hamilton. Those are all 3 guys that were either playing elsewhere or wasn't playing close to the level of what we've seen since the start of the season.

 

[Azathoth]

.500 hockey, on pace for 90 points. i’ll take it. at this rate, special teams will probably prevent us from clinching a spot, which is annoying.

I feel like even the PK has been slowly getting better as the season has gone on. Its really the dog shit PP and Recchi (and by extension Ruff) that are going to sink this team's chances if things don't start to improve.

 

[devilsblood]

You should stop using that site for faceoffs, but it is true that Hughes did not take any faceoffs last night. The other winger on his line stepped in when Nico was thrown out.

Still, they could put Sharangovich on his wing and let Yegor take all the faceoffs. It sucks, but I think it's an improvement.

I doubt Hughes on Nico's wing was ever a long term consideration, and they did move him back to center late, but I do think it was part of the decision.

 

[devilsblood]

I feel like even the PK has been slowly getting better as the season has gone on. Its really the dog shit PP and Recchi (and by extension Ruff) that are going to sink this team's chances if things don't start to improve.

I want to see the #1 PP unit together for a stretch. Nico winning faceoff is important. Hamilton is important. Hughes is important. Zacha as a shooter but I also think he and Hughes will have some good looking passing combinations. Tatar? Well, hopefully he'll find a groove.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a bit of a coming together process early, and I think we saw some of that last night, with Hughes having a couple passes that didn't connect, but I do like the construction of the unit and I think they will figure things out in time.

 

[My3Sons]

Not what I meant. I said that we've had periods where they dominated possession, time on puck and all that and still couldn't score. The games against Wild, Panthers (two of the best 5v5 teams in the league), first period last night... Devils played big boy hockey and couldn't score then the other team strikes back and score at will... Of course I'd love to have some bigger guys in our top9, I just feel like what we most need is skilled players regardless of their size.

NJ played some boneheaded lazy hockey last night. You had the PP goal where three guys went into the corner and one guy guarded no one leaving the back door player wide open. You had the fourth goal where every Devil stopped skating and kneeled down and tried to take away the pass with their stick on the ice and no one pressured the puck holder who had all day to dissect the play. MBW also made some great saves but I'm sure he'd like one or two of the SJ goals back. It was an ugly period and at least they stayed with it even if they didn't make it all the way back. Hopefully they can work on the PK issue since this isn't the first time we've seen that exact scenario lead to a goal against in virtually the same way.

 

[Eggtimer]

We are definitly moving forward and that is mostly linked to the play of Johnsson, Mercer and Hamilton. Those are all 3 guys that were either playing elsewhere or wasn't playing close to the level of what we've seen since the start of the season.

I agree with but would add Graves and rolling out two good goalies. Adding a top pairing was massive . Moves Severson and Smith down a pairing is massive as well.

 

[Buck Dancer]

I agree with but would add Graves and rolling out two good goalies. Adding a top pairing was massive . Moves Severson and Smith down a pairing is massive as well.

Oh yeah, moving Serverson to the 2nd pairing is definitly a plus and adding a legit backup is definitly a game changer, you're absolutely right. Was just pointing out that the turn around was mainly linked to the 3 guys I pointed out.

 

[New Jersey Devils]

NJ played some boneheaded lazy hockey last night. You had the PP goal where three guys went into the corner and one guy guarded no one leaving the back door player wide open. You had the fourth goal where every Devil stopped skating and kneeled down and tried to take away the pass with their stick on the ice and no one pressured the puck holder who had all day to dissect the play. MBW also made some great saves but I'm sure he'd like one or two of the SJ goals back. It was an ugly period and at least they stayed with it even if they didn't make it all the way back. Hopefully they can work on the PK issue since this isn't the first time we've seen that exact scenario lead to a goal against in virtually the same way.

Sharks absolutely (and literally) ate us alive whenever they saw the center or defender cheat into the corner. Always had a guy wide open to take the far side pass all alone. Such dumb mistakes.

 

[My3Sons]

Sharks absolutely (and literally) ate us alive whenever they saw the center or defender cheat into the corner. Always had a guy wide open to take the far side pass all alone. Such dumb mistakes.

Then layer in a game where they tried to emphasize some sort of structure and they were too passive. This isn't the first time they've played that way when they emphasize structure which to my eyes essentially amounts to a zone style of defense. I think the team does better when they try to pressure the puck as part of the defensive plan. Maybe they were concerned about Burns and Karlsson exploiting puck pressure but NJ's young players just can't seem to handle the nuance of the zone defense yet.

Older veteran teams like the NYI, WAS, and PIT play it well but they have years of experience and have collected a fair number of players that play that style to begin with. NJ has skilled forwards and a miss mash of defenders behind Graves and Dr. Evil. I don't doubt that Siegnthaler could play it properly but the forwards just don't have a great feel and I'm not sure the details are being taught to give them the best chance.

That pile up in the corner last night on the PK resembled a scrum for a loose ground ball in a high school lacrosse game. Maybe a JV one at that. It was unnecessary. Same with that extended sequence where NJ defended lazily and surrendered that fourth goal. They looked like a tired team playing a prevent defense late in a game where they are ahead by three. I'm sure the players are disappointed in the second period last night and hopefully they can pull some corrections from the video. They are young and these sorts of games will happen but I'd like to see some systemic changes in how they approach some of these games.

 

[RSeen]

He was bad in the dzone last year. The thing was he was decent offensively, so he it wasn’t as noticeable.


Game was lost due to coaching having horrible lines for entirely way too long. Special teams was godawful.

it would be nice if Nico did more than just get assists, like score a goal once in a while. Going in almost 10 games no goals from him.

he looks slow as well.

Not nice pass by Johnsson to Bratt.


Teams got serious consistency issues. That’s in the coaching staff. 2nd game in their last 3 they shit the bed. Embarrassing.

Send smith down already. Let white play. Find some scoring help. Kuokanen also has been awful this season as well.

I don't think Smith was this bad, but you could be right, his transition game turning into being awful could make his flaws more noticeable.

Regarding Nico, I don't think he is playing with the right players. Zacha and Tatar aren't providing great value in board battles and I think Nico needs at least a strong winger in that regard. I think Mercer could be his long-term RW.

 

[Devs3cups]

A little out of left field but I just gotta say, this place is fun! Sometimes it gets heated but man this board is entertaining and fun, especially during games.

Almost 40 pages in last night's GDT, I see a lot of teams that barely crack 10... I love being here on game nights and sharing this with all you posters, we sure are passionate about this team!

 

[tr83]

Why do we have 3 stars but 5 goats?

 

[JK3]

Why do we have 3 stars but 5 goats?

The worse the game the more goats, we had 10 from the game we lost before this one.

It's whoever makes the poll I guess but people usually give an honorable mention to a few players that didn't make the 3 Stars.