Post-Game Talk: Young Stars Classic - Flames def. Canucks 4-1 (Corrado with the lone Canucks goal)

Royal Canuck

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Feb 10, 2011
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Far too many conclusions being drawn by people around here. All I have to say.

Yeah.

Not every player is going to be on top of their game on any given night. PLUS this is like the playoffs for Calgary, they got all their best talent on the ice while we only have a few close-to-NHL ready guys on our roster. Maybe Shinkaruk had a fit, maybe Horvat didn`t stand out, maybe Gaunce was invisible all game. It`s one game in a rookie tournament, these guys are dawning NHL uniforms for the first time (50% at least) they`re probably nervous beyond belief right now. And besides Horvat, Corrado and Jensen, none of these guys are going to have a crack at the team this season, so they are going to have another year to mature and develop, just because they weren`t great in one game in a prospect tournament doesn`t mean that they`re forever labeled as a ``cry baby`` or an `invisible player`, it means they had an off-game, now they need to rebound from that and show us they`re confidence and maturity to put the last game behind them and move on to the next one, simple as that.
 

King of Anarchy

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Sep 30, 2008
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Port Coquitlam, BC
Far too many conclusions being drawn by people around here. All I have to say.

Might as well just end the tournament now. We've already seen enough to know that Gaunce is going to be a career 3rd liner at best, Jensen has pretty eyes (Taylor Pyatt), Eriksson should have stayed in Sweden and Shinkaruk is next to join Luongo on #divatour2013. ;)

But yeah, we're not going to know a lot about the top prospects until they get to camp and start to really test their skills against the big dogs. This is just a good experience against good competition.

Nothing more, nothing less.
 

ohnoeszz

Registered User
May 5, 2010
1,109
266
Again at game and would make the following observations.

Team started very well but ran into some hot goal tending and few bad bounces. Then they ran into huge penalty problems and the game turned around. Team looked bagged by the third and stopped playing like a team. Huge gaps developed in their play and play got very fragmented.

The Good

Subban - superb skater and smart with the puck. Made some great stretch passes and again was clever on the PP. Unlike others there was little fall off in his play as the game went on. Though small, he doesn't get pushed around on defense. Has to be turning the heads of Canuck brass.

Jensen - Had great first period and overall not bad. Got very individualistic in the third and tried to do too much. However, always seemed the most likely to score.Would however say that he remains inconsistent and needs more mental toughness

Horvat - thought he was solid. Showed good vision with the puck and made some excellent set ups. Showed good strength along the boards. Did note that late in the game he got behind the play when team turned over the puck but by that point team had to take some chances. Really got very little help from his line mates and seemed to get burned out killing penalties in the second.

Corrado - again showed his mobility and quickness. Showed the wheels and puck movement skills to have belief that he can move on to a higher level. Like Subban and Tommernes had to continually cover up for the poor play of his defensive partners and some of the forwards.

Friesen - was very good on the pk and strong defensively. Much better than Mallet and should be ahead of Mallet as a defensive center in Utica.

Tommernes - moved game up tonite. Sometimes too casual with the puck and adjusting to smaller playing area but very smooth skater who creates good angles for his giving and taking passes. Might question physical toughness around the net.

Meh

Shinkaruk - trying to force the play too much - needs to let the play come to him more. Looked frustrated and out of sync with others. Skill here but will need to learn how to use it better. Seemed like the harder he worked the less he was getting done. Did not look good on the pk

Blomstorm - never accomplishes much. Like last year in Chicago shows the occasional spurt but at other times seems to be trying to figure out where he should be and what he should be doing.

Mallet - again illustrated lack of puck skills. Looked gassed by the second which makes you wonder about conditioning.

The Bad

Hall - knocked on his butt all night. Play, especially on PP, died on his stick. Little point playing him further.

McEneny - looked slow and weak on the puck. Hard to see up side here.

Franson - in over his head in this company. Just nothing in his play to suggest much potential.

Guimond - fumbled with his passes, telegraphed everything, little movement off the puck, turned over pucks at the blue line leading to odd man rushed. Subban had to spent lot time trying to cover for this player. Given a chance, failed badly and time to move on.

Liberati - looked nervous and showed little ability to keep proper spacing. Held back when he should have been moving up and then rushed into situations when he shouldn't have. Hurt the play of Corrado

Overall the team had too many holes in the lineup. Made a good push in the first but this was mostly the result of the good play of a few players. Once the penalties started the better players got tired and couldn't compensate for the poor play of others

I agree with a lot of this. A few things to add...

Subban showed well, but he at times skated himself into poor situations, being overaggressive without the support. One instance stands out where he got caught between decisions at the offensive blueline after rushing with no support and gave up the puck.

I think you are really underselling Jensen's game. He was everywhere. Multiple takeaways in the defensive zone both on the PK and 5 on 5.

A few perfect set-ups: 1. pass from behind the goal, between defender's legs to Mallet in front of the net for a prime scoring chance 2. against an immediate body check, pass from just outside the trapezoid into the high slot for a wide open quality chance on goal 3. he initiated the play where Horvat was robbed by drawing the lone Dman and passing the puck to Shinkaruk on one side of the net who fed it across to Horvat on the other side.

He was robbed once in tight but almost jammed one in during another goalmouth scrum. A couple shots missed high but the rest were dangerous - one of them fluttering into the slot after catching just the corner of the goalie's equipment.

He was pretty clearly the best player on the ice - particularly during the power play where the effectiveness really jumped up a notch once they started featuring him (at both the high left slot and the right halfwall - I dunno if the use of both was by design or intuition but it was working) instead of Subban at the point.

I would add that I felt Franson was having trouble keeping up with the play of Cassels and Jensen at times. It seems like people either want to knock him for being too individualistic or for not making his mark on the game enough. I don't think either label fit in this game - though he was clearly trying to do more himself when the team went south(IMO this was the right decision - not a selfish one).


Speaking of Cassels - he's awesome. The setup to Jensen early in the first was pure art, turning the defensmen around and sliding a backhand pass right underneath him to Jensen in the slot. Extremely smart stick. He's always ahead of the play and turning it towards where he thinks it should go. He also takes stick liberties (hacks to the legs) like Bieksa, Kesler, and Burrows - that was what led up to his cross-checking penalty which was him losing his head a bit. He showed a sneaky Sedin-hook on the hands that went uncalled too. The other penalty was an effort penalty IMO where his stick got to high when he tried to play the puck carriers stick. What I liked most was that after all that cheap stuff, he attacked the crease and was expecting, even looking for contact. His puck handling and passing is very very good as well. I think he has top 6 potential.

Horvat had a couple Higgins like moves on the boards where he initiated contact and moved the puck with control at the same time.

I definitely agree on Friesen. I feel like he's going unnoticed but he had a really good defensive game. He was extremely active and positionally sound at the same time. A few times he identified where the play was heading and used his excellent skating to angle off the outlet player.

Mallet did look a bit drained towards the end but I don't agree about his puck skills. He has one on one ability and average to above average vision. I also really like that any mistakes he makes with the puck happen going forward. That's a nice habit for a bottom 6 player.

Tommernes impressed me the most of all the D. Corrado is excellent with his decision making but Tommernes can really open up the ice with his skating and understanding of the play.

Also agree Liberati and Guimond were miserable. Liberati looked in over his head - slow poor decisions compounded by a lack of high end puck handling. It seemed like Guimond was chasing around the whole defensive zone at times.

Last thing I'd like to add is that Shinkaruk has a ways to go but over the course of the last two games I've been impressed by his play without the puck. He reads the play well, he supports his teammates, he passes well and willingly with good vision. Most of all he's impressed me with his ability to pressure in the offensive and neutral zones. His offensive game isn't quite clicking but I hadn't expected him to be this rounded a player.
 
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tantalum

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Apr 2, 2002
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pretty clear that in a few years the canucks will have no issue beating the Sharks but they may as well hand the division to the Flames. :sarcasm:
 

King of the ES*

Guest
I did not like the way Shinkaruk expressed his frustration during the latter part of the game. Apparently, he broke his stick forcefully on the ice after messing up a play.

Don't get me wrong, showing emotion and frustration means he cares. But there are better outlets and smarter plays to do that with. He's only a kid, so he's immature and will have his growing pains, but nobody else on the team took out their dissatisfaction like that.

Attitude problems aren't as fixable as say, poor skating. He has time to develop and iron out these personality faults but I don't think anyone on the coaching staff like to see that kind of behaviour on the ice.

Didn't watch, but I don't know why you think this is an indication of an attitude problem. If he played as bad as most are saying, I'm glad to see him pissed off about it, and expressive. Gets really annoying to see a guy like Henrik Sedin talk about how great the Canucks played, after a game when it was obvious that they had no business winning.

Hockey's an emotional game, and emotions should not be suppressed.
 

ddawg1950

Registered User
Jul 2, 2010
11,273
585
Pender Island, BC Palm Desert, CA
What?

We lost to "Calgary" Flames?

We are doomed. The Canucks have no talent. No character.

Fire the coach.

We should tank and build the way Chicago did.

The Leafs are better than us.

GM Mike Gillis does not know how to build a winner.

The CoHo trade was the worst in the history of the game. The world. The universe.

Higgins sucks.

We never should have gotten rid of Mason Raymond.
 
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quat

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Apr 4, 2003
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I did not like the way Shinkaruk expressed his frustration during the latter part of the game. Apparently, he broke his stick forcefully on the ice after messing up a play.

Don't get me wrong, showing emotion and frustration means he cares. But there are better outlets and smarter plays to do that with. He's only a kid, so he's immature and will have his growing pains, but nobody else on the team took out their dissatisfaction like that.

Attitude problems aren't as fixable as say, poor skating. He has time to develop and iron out these personality faults but I don't think anyone on the coaching staff like to see that kind of behaviour on the ice.

I'm surprised anyone would feel this is actually true.

Shinkaruk simply looked a bit worn down and it shows he's physically just a little behind other players. I was actually impressed with his passing and ability to read plays. He's got a lot of upside but is still needs more development, which is totally fine.

I thought the best Canuck players were Corrado and Jensen. Subban also looked good, and Tommernes had some good moments.

Games like these simply show where guys need to develop. People making sweeping generalizations about the players are kind of missing the point. Fact is, the majority of these players will never play an NHL game.
 

quat

Faking Life
Apr 4, 2003
15,232
2,354
Duncan
I agree with a lot of this. A few things to add...

Subban showed well, but he at times skated himself into poor situations, being overaggressive without the support. One instance stands out where he got caught between decisions at the offensive blueline after rushing with no support and gave up the puck.

I think you are really underselling Jensen's game. He was everywhere. Multiple takeaways in the defensive zone both on the PK and 5 on 5.

A few perfect set-ups: 1. pass from behind the goal, between defender's legs to Mallet in front of the net for a prime scoring chance 2. against an immediate body check, pass from just outside the trapezoid into the high slot for a wide open quality chance on goal 3. he initiated the play where Horvat was robbed by drawing the lone Dman and passing the puck to Shinkaruk on one side of the net who fed it across to Horvat on the other side.

He was robbed once in tight but almost jammed one in during another goalmouth scrum. A couple shots missed high but the rest were dangerous - one of them fluttering into the slot after catching just the corner of the goalie's equipment.

He was pretty clearly the best player on the ice - particularly during the power play where the effectiveness really jumped up a notch once they started featuring him (at both the high left slot and the right halfwall - I dunno if the use of both was by design or intuition but it was working) instead of Subban at the point.

I would add that I felt Franson was having trouble keeping up with the play of Cassels and Jensen at times. It seems like people either want to knock him for being too individualistic or for not making his mark on the game enough. I don't think either label fit in this game - though he was clearly trying to do more himself when the team went south(IMO this was the right decision - not a selfish one).


Speaking of Cassels - he's awesome. The setup to Jensen early in the first was pure art, turning the defensmen around and sliding a backhand pass right underneath him to Jensen in the slot. Extremely smart stick. He's always ahead of the play and turning it towards where he thinks it should go. He also takes stick liberties (hacks to the legs) like Bieksa, Kesler, and Burrows - that was what led up to his cross-checking penalty which was him losing his head a bit. He showed a sneaky Sedin-hook on the hands that went uncalled too. The other penalty was an effort penalty IMO where his stick got to high when he tried to play the puck carriers stick. What I liked most was that after all that cheap stuff, he attacked the crease and was expecting, even looking for contact. His puck handling and passing is very very good as well. I think he has top 6 potential.

Horvat had a couple Higgins like moves on the boards where he initiated contact and moved the puck with control at the same time.

I definitely agree on Friesen. I feel like he's going unnoticed but he had a really good defensive game. He was extremely active and positionally sound at the same time. A few times he identified where the play was heading and used his excellent skating to angle off the outlet player.

Mallet did look a bit drained towards the end but I don't agree about his puck skills. He has one on one ability and average to above average vision. I also really like that any mistakes he makes with the puck happen going forward. That's a nice habit for a bottom 6 player.

Tommernes impressed me the most of all the D. Corrado is excellent with his decision making but Tommernes can really open up the ice with his skating and understanding of the play.

Also agree Liberati and Guimond were miserable. Liberati looked in over his head - slow poor decisions compounded by a lack of high end puck handling. It seemed like Guimond was chasing around the whole defensive zone at times.

Last thing I'd like to add is that Shinkaruk has a ways to go but over the course of the last two games I've been impressed by his play without the puck. He reads the play well, he supports his teammates, he passes well and willingly with good vision. Most of all he's impressed me with his ability to pressure in the offensive and neutral zones. His offensive game isn't quite clicking but I hadn't expected him to be this rounded a player.

I want to quote this because it makes me feel like somehow I have had a part in writing it. lol. Good points all.
 

arsmaster*

Guest
Was outside during the 2nd intermission and came back in and missed the 3rd and 4th Calgary goal.

Long story short, I thought the kids looked the better team all night long. Just got beat by a hot goalie.
 

Grumbler

Registered User
Oct 25, 2012
3,085
851
What?

We lost to "Calgary" Flames?

We are doomed. The Canucks have no talent. No character.

Fire the coach.

We should tank and build the way Chicago did.

The Leafs are better than us.

GM Mike Gillis does not know how to build a winner.

The CoHo trade was the worst in the history of the game. The world. The universe.

Higgins sucks.

We never should have gotten rid of Mason Raymond.

Wait, your not serious?
 
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arsmaster*

Guest
I'd also like to add that Jensen is still trying junior hockey moves out there. Just about every time he drives down the right wing he tries to cut in for a shot. Even at this level it was quite easily defended with a simple poke check. I'd like to see him drive wide and take the puck to the crease.

That said, he was the most exciting player to watch last night, constantly created chances etc.

I thought he looked really impressive, just felt he became a one trick pony late on.

I also love that he's willing to pay the price for goals. He's not afraid of the crease and really wants to score. Should bode well for him.
 

Trae

____________________
May 16, 2011
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Calgary
The three guys that stood out for me as a Flames fan were Subban, Corrado, and Eriksson. Thought Horvat had a better game than some of you are giving him credit for but seemed to miss a lot of time with all the penalties. Appeared he lost a lot of faceoffs but unlike our actual hockey club, we had guys like Monahan and Knight who are quite good in that department. In general it seemed all the "top" forwards for both teams had poor showings, i was really disappointed with Baertschi, Shinkaruk, and Knight. I didn't even think we played that well, if it weren't for Ortio, this would have been a lot closer.
 

Mr. Canucklehead

Kitimat Canuck
Dec 14, 2002
41,099
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Kitimat, BC
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Trae. Ortio was a beast last night.

On Jensen - in addition to him probably being the biggest scoring threat for us last night, I really liked his PK work. Ditto for Subban, who showed well in other situations aside from the PP (from my perspective).
 

Proto

Registered User
Jan 30, 2010
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Didn't watch, but I don't know why you think this is an indication of an attitude problem. If he played as bad as most are saying, I'm glad to see him pissed off about it, and expressive. Gets really annoying to see a guy like Henrik Sedin talk about how great the Canucks played, after a game when it was obvious that they had no business winning.

Hockey's an emotional game, and emotions should not be suppressed.

I dunno. Based on that moment, I can only conclude that Shinkaruk is a whiny diva-type who doesn't care about his teammates, but only his own performance, no matter what he says. It seems clear to me that when he lifted the stick above his head to crash it down to the ice, the stick was symbolic of his teammates, and Shinkaruk was smashing them into the ice -- in a sense blaming them for everything that had gone wrong.

The last thing you need in a prospect is a guy who is a lone wolf out there for himself. What a shambolic effort by a gutless player who doesn't have the will to win, even in a contest between two underskilled teams with very little NHL talent.
 

Trelane

Registered User
Feb 12, 2013
1,987
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Salusa Secundus
Went to the first two games. Focused only on few players.

Jensen -- most ready forward among our kids (as he should be given his senority and draft pedigree). The posts from the 1st game that questioned his skating had to have been from net watchers or folks simply got him mixed up with someone else. I rate his skating as good, or very good (considering his size), both in style and speed. There are consistency issues, to be sure, but--when he wants to--he’s clearly a superior player at both ends of the ice, and will on occasion take the body. Has a wicked wrister, not always so accurate as highlight films would have you belive, but it has serious zip. Most importantly, he’ll shoot from anywhere, an element the Nucks have been missing badly since the departure of Samuelsson – the player Jensen compares closest to if he puts it all together. A mercenary of sort who’ll create his own chances, without necessarily needing an elite playmaker, and who could hit for 25 in his prime.

Horvat -- not sure what to make of him. He’ll be a player for us one day (not this year) but I’d go easy on any beyond moderate offensive expectations. At this point the guy is a checker, maybe more skilled, but still a checker. His playmaking lacks a certain je ne sais quoi, maybe call it a flair for the unexpected. He makes good, conventional decisions with the puck, is not selfish by any means, but there is not much creativity to his passing game in the offensive zone. The good news is he is a serious battler with a good nose for the net who knows how to get himself into a scoring position, so the goals will come.

Shinkaruk – probably the consistently, biggest offensive threat for us during both games. Thought he overpassed a few times, but if he’s destined to play with Bo in the future, him being the primary playmaker may work out OK for both. Size seems to be no issue and I’d say his gives more shinola than he gets--quite chippy, maybe even dirty along the boards when he has to be.
 

Pip

Registered User
Feb 2, 2012
69,198
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Granduland
I find it interesting that everyone is praising Subban, and crucifying Shinkaruk as I think almost the opposite. Minus the PL, HS looked very dangerous offensively basically every time he was out there and showed some serious talent. Subban, other than the PP looked very average, and pretty poor defensively.

I would have put my top 3 Canucks, in order:

1)Jensen- Looked consistently dangerous, and solid defensively. Had a great game imo.
2)Corrado- NHL ready, great in all three zones and was very physical last night.
3)Shinkaruk- As I said, offensively he's always creating something and his speed/skill continues to impress me.

3 Worst:

1)Hall- Just looked brutal tbh, not much to say here
2)Guimond- Can't handle this level.
3)McEneny- Poor with the puck, and meh without it. Looked like he was a step behind for most of the night
 
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Bourne Endeavor

Registered User
Apr 6, 2009
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Montreal, Quebec
I believe the issue with Shinkaruk is his defensive game. While he is quite creative, almost NHL-esque level in that respect, he struggles in his own zone and his offensive oriented style has led to miscues and subsequent turnovers. How bad he was last night has certainly been exaggerated, but I did find him looking a bit lost. Likely just coming off a high from yesterday's win and attempting to do too much.

Corrado looked posed and, at times, downright dominate on the point. Perhaps, it was only in brief transition play, however I noticed him switching to the left side a fair bit throughout the game.

Jensen looks the most capable from a forward perspective. Great offensive instincts and seems to love rushing directly into the fray, a few feet from the crease. Unfortunately, as I have said earlier, we do not have much room for a forward unless injuries occur.
 

Shareefruck

Registered User
Apr 2, 2005
29,031
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Vancouver, BC
Yeah.

Not every player is going to be on top of their game on any given night. PLUS this is like the playoffs for Calgary, they got all their best talent on the ice while we only have a few close-to-NHL ready guys on our roster. Maybe Shinkaruk had a fit, maybe Horvat didn`t stand out, maybe Gaunce was invisible all game. It`s one game in a rookie tournament, these guys are dawning NHL uniforms for the first time (50% at least) they`re probably nervous beyond belief right now. And besides Horvat, Corrado and Jensen, none of these guys are going to have a crack at the team this season, so they are going to have another year to mature and develop, just because they weren`t great in one game in a prospect tournament doesn`t mean that they`re forever labeled as a ``cry baby`` or an `invisible player`, it means they had an off-game, now they need to rebound from that and show us they`re confidence and maturity to put the last game behind them and move on to the next one, simple as that.
I thought Gaunce didn't play this one.
 

Shareefruck

Registered User
Apr 2, 2005
29,031
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Vancouver, BC
Jensen and Horvat should be playing together, IMO-- They play a game that actually seems to complement each other.

I'm not really buying into this chemistry with Shinkaruk thing, personally. Horvat forces Shinkaruk to play an along-the-boards-game, which doesn't suit him.

I also feel like they should stop balancing the lineup and playing good players with bad ones. Would like to see

Jensen - Horvat - Blomstrad
Shinkaruk - Cassels - XX
Friesen - Gaunce - Mallet
XX - XX - XX

Tommernes - Corrado
Andersson - Subban
McEneny - Cederholm
 
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