Young Malkin VS Matthews

TomasHertlsRooster

Don’t say eye test when you mean points
May 14, 2012
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Fremont, CA
I call BS.
No one thought he would be as good as he is. He was considered a weak/average 1st overall pick. There were a million 'proposals' where Arizona would send OEL to Toronto for the 1st pick, and everyone laughed and said Matthews wasn't worth OEL.

Hindsight is 20/20 but Matthews has been better than expected. Still not as good as Malkin was, but time will tell. I'd say 18yr old Matthew's season is more impressive than Malkin's 20yr old rookie season. That's about it so far.

I found this thread on the main boards and this thread on the Leafs board. The general consensus was that Matthews was far superior to OEL. Not sure why you want to be the victim so bad.

Also, Matthews didn’t have an 18 year old season. He literally didn’t play one single game in the NHL at 18. He was 19 years old by the time he played his first pre-season game. If you want to compare Matthews D+1 season to Malkin’s D+3, go ahead, but Malkin’s was clearly better. Matthews is now in his D+3, in a higher scoring league than Malkin was in for his D+3, and probably isn’t going to hit the 85 points that Malkin did in his D+3.

If you want to compare them at the ages of 20, Malkin’s rookie year still looks better than Matthews’ sophomore year.
 

Regal

Registered User
Mar 12, 2010
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Vancouver
Yet somehow will be the highest paid player in the league.

Never change HF.

Wait, are you actually suggesting that Matthews's contract will show him to be a better player? And somehow people other than you are ridiculous for believing otherwise?
 

Zegs2sendhelp

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Jul 25, 2012
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He was talked up as he was projected 1st overall, but he was seen as a 2-way guy rather than someone who could potentially hit 50 goals. He was mostly compared to Toews and Kopitar at the time. No one expected Malkin comparisons of any kind.

He was in the RNH, Hischier, Ekblad, and Pat Kane tier of hype. Not the Tavares, Hall, Yakupov, or Stamkos tier (McDavid gets his own tier). Obviously hype doesn't mean much (see Pat Kane and Yakupov) but either way, Matthews is better than he was generally projected to be.



I don't disagree, but only once they won the lottery, did Matthews became a 'can't miss generational superstar'. The hype was meh before that, and really only 'super hyped' in Toronto just like everything else is anyways. It's simply the market.


We must be watching different things, I thought Matthews got a ton of hype.... right up there with McDavid/Eichel
 

DearDiary

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I found this thread on the main boards and this thread on the Leafs board. The general consensus was that Matthews was far superior to OEL. Not sure why you want to be the victim so bad.

Also, Matthews didn’t have an 18 year old season. He literally didn’t play one single game in the NHL at 18. He was 19 years old by the time he played his first pre-season game. If you want to compare Matthews D+1 season to Malkin’s D+3, go ahead, but Malkin’s was clearly better. Matthews is now in his D+3, in a higher scoring league than Malkin was in for his D+3, and probably isn’t going to hit the 85 points that Malkin did in his D+3.

If you want to compare them at the ages of 20, Malkin’s rookie year still looks better than Matthews’ sophomore year.

Malkin also had trouble adjusting to NA hockey and couldn't speak English. 85 points was good considering his struggles in communicating with linemates and learning new systems.

Matthews doesn't have a single excuse for not hitting 100+ points
 

Spirit of 67

Registered User
Nov 25, 2016
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Wait, are you actually suggesting that Matthews's contract will show him to be a better player? And somehow people other than you are ridiculous for believing otherwise?
No, I'm suggesting that HF is full of trolls who rate Matthews behind a litany of other players based on play. But then suggest he's worthy of the richest contract in league history.
 

Regal

Registered User
Mar 12, 2010
25,161
14,596
Vancouver
I found this thread on the main boards and this thread on the Leafs board. The general consensus was that Matthews was far superior to OEL. Not sure why you want to be the victim so bad.

Also, Matthews didn’t have an 18 year old season. He literally didn’t play one single game in the NHL at 18. He was 19 years old by the time he played his first pre-season game. If you want to compare Matthews D+1 season to Malkin’s D+3, go ahead, but Malkin’s was clearly better. Matthews is now in his D+3, in a higher scoring league than Malkin was in for his D+3, and probably isn’t going to hit the 85 points that Malkin did in his D+3.

If you want to compare them at the ages of 20, Malkin’s rookie year still looks better than Matthews’ sophomore year
.

On a per game basis, Matthews was slightly better than rookie Malkin last year given the context of league scoring and even further ahead this year, though the sample is small and he's been trending down. I'm not sure that means much considering the leap Malkin took in his 2nd year though
 
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koyvoo

Registered User
Nov 8, 2014
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Over the course of their first three seasons, Matthews is not a career PPG player. Malkin was so far ahead of PPG at that point he could line even see how far back that level was.
 

TomasHertlsRooster

Don’t say eye test when you mean points
May 14, 2012
33,361
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Fremont, CA
On a per game basis, Matthews was slightly better than rookie Malkin last year given the context of league scoring and even further ahead this year, though the sample is small and he's been trending down. I'm not sure that means much considering the leap Malkin took in his 2nd year though

Wrong.

Last season, Matthews scored 64 adjusted points in 62 games. (1.03 adjusted points per game)

In his rookie season, Malkin scored 87 adjusted points in 78 games. (1.12 adjusted points per game)

This season, Matthews
scored 42 adjusted points in 34 games. (1.24 adjusted points per game)

In his sophomore season, Malkin scored 115 adjusted points in 82 games. (1.40 adjusted points per game)

These comparisons feature each player at the same age for the entire season. Matthews and Malkin at 20 years old for the first comparison and 21 years old for the second comparison. However, they do feature Matthews in his D+2 and D+3, compared to Malkin in his D+3 and D+4. But because Matthews has one more year of NHL experience in both comparison, I think that evens it out and makes it more than fair to Matthews to compare these two years. (As opposed to D+3 for each, which would be this year for Matthews compared to rookie Malkin.)

On top of that, points per game will generally flatter players who were injured and played fewer games. The effects of fatigue - both physical and mental - will have a much larger effect on a player who plays 78 games than a player who plays 62.
 

Regal

Registered User
Mar 12, 2010
25,161
14,596
Vancouver
Wrong.

Last season, Matthews scored 64 adjusted points in 62 games. (1.03 adjusted points per game)

In his rookie season, Malkin scored 87 adjusted points in 78 games. (1.12 adjusted points per game)

This season, Matthews
scored 42 adjusted points in 34 games. (1.24 adjusted points per game)

In his sophomore season, Malkin scored 115 adjusted points in 82 games. (1.40 adjusted points per game)

These comparisons feature each player at the same age for the entire season. Matthews and Malkin at 20 years old for the first comparison and 21 years old for the second comparison. However, they do feature Matthews in his D+2 and D+3, compared to Malkin in his D+3 and D+4. But because Matthews has one more year of NHL experience in both comparison, I think that evens it out and makes it more than fair to Matthews to compare these two years. (As opposed to D+3 for each, which would be this year for Matthews compared to rookie Malkin.)

On top of that, points per game will generally flatter players who were injured and played fewer games. The effects of fatigue - both physical and mental - will have a much larger effect on a player who plays 78 games than a player who plays 62.

Adjusted points is a poor stat. The higher PPOs in the seasons after the lockout affected top players more than the rest of the league and scoring was less spread out. Adjusted points suggest that McDavid last year would have only been 4th in scoring in '07.

Matthews was 21st in PPG last year, and his PPG was 84% of the combined PPG of the top 10. In '07, Malkin was 20th in PPG, and his PPG was 84% of the combined PPG of the top 10. So I was wrong because I forgot Malkin missed games, but Matthews's sophomore season is essentially on par with Malkin's rookie year.

I also didn't compare Matthews this season to Malkin in his sophomore season, as Malkin's jump makes it pointless. I compared it again to Malkin's rookie year because of both being D+3s as you suggested. Here, Matthews is clearly better per game, as he's currently 12th in PPG. Though obviously in a smaller sample.

I also have to disagree with the idea that PPG generally flatten with more games. There's no evidence to suggest that's the case, as we see just as many players improve as the season goes along as regress. Matthews was likely not "helped" by his injury, because any time off for rest also comes with whatever affects the injury has once he resumes play, as well as general rustiness. What does happen is that players will regress to the mean over larger samples of games. The problem with Matthews is that he's too early in his career to know what that mean is yet. Last year, you could suggest he would have likely regressed with more games as he had a high on-ice shooting percentage, but he continues to have one this year, so he might just be an anomaly since he creates a lot of high danger chances and has a great shot.

Considering Matthews also never looked the same at the end of the season, I would suggest the injury time didn't have a positive effect on his PPG, and I think he compares favourably with Malkin's rookie year, and despite the same sample size would likely continue to do so this year.

As I said though, Malkin made a jump in his 2nd year that makes the comparison pointless. We can't assume that type of jump from the level Matthews is currently at for any player, regardless of how they compare at a young age.
 
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playasRus

Registered User
Mar 21, 2009
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I admittedly can't speak toward the hype in other markets but at least here in Toronto, even while the season prior to the lottery was still winding down, the Leafs were being urged by fans and media to tank in order to have the best possible shot at winning "The Matthews Sweepstakes". People were actually very tense leading up to the lottery. Granted, as you allude to, the hype here for anything is ridiculous at the best of times (the William Nylander saga is a prime example, because only here would it be fairly termed a "saga"), so I don't get to see/hear much rational discourse on anything Leaf-related, like I might hear in other markets.

I'm not sure his exclamations are true. This is only one source and the first I've found, but they call him a generational franchise forward in this September scouting report...

https://www.thedraftanalyst.com/prospects/auston-matthews/
 

Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
55,820
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Malkin was better and still is better than Matthews. Malkin is a Crosby level talent who still somehow can't get the respect he deserves not only from HF, but also from hardcore fans of Crosby.

Are you talking about daver? Because most, if not all, Pens fans I know and converse with love both guys. Even if they have their favorites, it's like having two kids you love with all your heart, but one of them just happens to be your favorite because that kid shares your same interests or whatever. Doesn't mean you go out of your way to diminish the other kid.
 
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