X's and O's
- Thread starter FossilFndr
- Start date
Sounds good to me.
Josi had a rough game in the "doing too much" department. The penalty that Rocco took because he was hanging around below the dots rather than cycling back to his position and letting our tiny forward that is really good below the dots do his job down there. The goal against on the PK he was trying to play goalie instead of doing his job of tying up sticks in front of the net.
Josi played well one on one against McDavid. His speed really helps him to jam him up and stay goal side of the play.
Fabbro and Ekholm got killed on the 3 on 2 against, that was a mess.
GoldOnGold
Registered User
Does anyone know why Pekka is doing so poorly on the PK? Is it a mechanics thing, a speed thing, or something else? Or is it just the guys in front of him?
Scoresberg
In Trotz We Trust?
I'm inclined to blame the PK players in front of him. Pekka hasn't saved some of the shots he would've in previous years but our PK hasn't adjusted to his decline. Also, he has probably lost his confidence when it comes to the penalty kill and frankly, so has the rest of the team as well.
I mean, if you look at the goal by EDM last game, Chiasson gets what, two whacks at the puck right in front and Drai comes in and cleans up the mess. No way Pekka can save that.
The Debrincat goal against CHI a week ago, Ekholm and Joey go after the same guy near the boards and leave Debrincat alone in the slot, and a scorer like that isn't going to miss from there. He even had the time to deke and go forehand-backhand.
The Bergeron goal against in Hynes' debut, again Ekholm and Josi go after the same guy behind the net leaving Bergeron, one of the games most lethal forwards all alone in front of the net for a easy goal. No way I blame Pekka for that.
Like Duchene said after the BOS game, "Wrong mistakes at the wrong times". That's how I would certainly describe our PK this year.
Armourboy
Hey! You suck!
Frankly the special teams is probably something that's gonna take a bit. The PK system was so bad that I think its gonna take them a bit to adjust back. You still see the forwards roaming around way too much like they were under McCarthy.
The PP I have decided is about 25% system and about 75% execution. They just keep on stopping and holding the puck and its killing it. Josi is the worlds freaking worst about it. When they don't do that is usually when we score.
As far as Pekka, I think part of it is his rebound control hasn't been as good as years past, something Saros is struggling with as well. Starting to make me wonder if there isn't a coaching issue there.
Offensively, until the top two lines are willing to get dirty and go to the net they are going to continue to struggle. I'm not sure why the 3rd and 4th lines always seem to have someone in front of the net, but it feels like anyways that you rarely see anyone from the top 2 lines there.
The PP I have decided is about 25% system and about 75% execution. They just keep on stopping and holding the puck and its killing it. Josi is the worlds freaking worst about it. When they don't do that is usually when we score.
As far as Pekka, I think part of it is his rebound control hasn't been as good as years past, something Saros is struggling with as well. Starting to make me wonder if there isn't a coaching issue there.
Offensively, until the top two lines are willing to get dirty and go to the net they are going to continue to struggle. I'm not sure why the 3rd and 4th lines always seem to have someone in front of the net, but it feels like anyways that you rarely see anyone from the top 2 lines there.
wadesworld
Registered User
I'd like to hear opinions on behind-the-net.
In my view, nothing good, from a defensive perspective happens behind the net. That message was driven home on two recent PK's as we had two defenders chase behind the net, leading to a pass out front to some of the most dangerous scorers in the NHL standing a foot in front of the crease. The result was predictable.
Someone should always be covering the slot. In my view, when the puck is behind the net, the disadvantages of going there FAR outweigh any advantages.
Is there a school of hockey which says chasing behind the net is a good idea? If so, I'd like to hear the theory.
Just confused on what they're possibly thinking...
In my view, nothing good, from a defensive perspective happens behind the net. That message was driven home on two recent PK's as we had two defenders chase behind the net, leading to a pass out front to some of the most dangerous scorers in the NHL standing a foot in front of the crease. The result was predictable.
Someone should always be covering the slot. In my view, when the puck is behind the net, the disadvantages of going there FAR outweigh any advantages.
Is there a school of hockey which says chasing behind the net is a good idea? If so, I'd like to hear the theory.
Just confused on what they're possibly thinking...
FFWRX
Unregistered User
My squirt (10 and under) player was taught to never do this unless the other defenseman is out numbered, and the center slides into the slot position defensively. I think ideally the center would be the one to help out the out numbered D while the other D stays in front of the net.
Kat Predator
Registered User
- Nov 28, 2019
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PP: The Preds have improved from last year when they couldn't even get in the offensive zone and when they did, they played four corners to kill the clock.
But it still looks very static, like they are just Xs on a whiteboard waiting to be erased and redrawn in another spot.
If you watch a team with a good PP in contrast, guys are buzzing and weaving all around, getting open and changing the passing lanes very quickly, and especially right in front of the net. They move their feet. And the puck is moved quickly back and forth through the triangles being created to get defenders heads swiveling and bodies moving to protect those constantly changing passing lanes.
Predsanddead24
Registered User
- Mar 7, 2019
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They are extremely static and the sadder thing about it is even though they basically just stand there they rarely ever make clean passes. You essentially need movement and good passing to have a successful powerplay and we really have neither of those.
The other thing that kills me both on the PP and general is the amount of point shots we take that completely miss the net and then just wrap around the boards out of our zone. One thing I have noticed more of since Hynes took over is that our defensemen seem to be taking more wrist shots or lower power slap shots from the point focusing on getting it through the traffic rather than just shooting it as fast as possible.
Legionnaire11
Registered User
From "Take Your Eye Off The Puck"... Regardless of the structure of a team's power play, every PP needs three key basics to be successful:
1. Constant movement
2. Traffic in front
3. Recovery options
And the Predators in recent years have rarely displayed even a single one of those components. It looks like Hynes has tried to move things toward the front of the net, which takes care of #2 and helps #3, but constant movement is something that really, really, really needs work.
It's kind of baffling how something so basic, that novice hockey fans should know, isn't happening for the Preds. And they could kind of mitigate that lack of movement with quick passing, but they don't do that either. For the most part our players receive a pass and then hold it while weighing their next passing option, as if the players we put on the PP lack the ability to process the game at a fast enough speed to be consistently successful.
also, I highly recommend this book as a beginning point for anyone who wants to learn more about the NHL game. Even if you know quite a bit about strategy and how the game works, it's still going to have a few tidbits for you, and it's a great quick reference book to keep yourself sharp, I picked it up at Barnes & Noble a few years ago, read it in two days and still pick it up every couple of weeks to reference something that i'm seeing in the Preds games.
Take Your Eye Off the Puck: How to Watch Hockey By Knowing Where to Look|Paperback
1. Constant movement
2. Traffic in front
3. Recovery options
And the Predators in recent years have rarely displayed even a single one of those components. It looks like Hynes has tried to move things toward the front of the net, which takes care of #2 and helps #3, but constant movement is something that really, really, really needs work.
It's kind of baffling how something so basic, that novice hockey fans should know, isn't happening for the Preds. And they could kind of mitigate that lack of movement with quick passing, but they don't do that either. For the most part our players receive a pass and then hold it while weighing their next passing option, as if the players we put on the PP lack the ability to process the game at a fast enough speed to be consistently successful.
also, I highly recommend this book as a beginning point for anyone who wants to learn more about the NHL game. Even if you know quite a bit about strategy and how the game works, it's still going to have a few tidbits for you, and it's a great quick reference book to keep yourself sharp, I picked it up at Barnes & Noble a few years ago, read it in two days and still pick it up every couple of weeks to reference something that i'm seeing in the Preds games.
Take Your Eye Off the Puck: How to Watch Hockey By Knowing Where to Look|Paperback
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wadesworld
Registered User
Absolutely agree with this. I remarked on this in another post but another thing you see about successful power plays is all that movement often results in a puck coming to their stick as they're moving towards the net. That makes the defense scramble to try to block what is going to be a dangerous chance, often leaving them out of position. Or, it allows the shooter to really step into the shot.
On our power play it seems like a majority of our passes are received standing still or even fading away from the net. We'll collect the puck and then start driving, but by that time there's been plenty of chance to adjust so there's no need for a mad scramble and only a perfect shot can score.
token grinder
Facts Get Deleted
No clue what they are thinking. A guy isn't scoring from behind the net. If he does it is on a wrap-around which a goalie should stop. If a good PP has a guy behind the net, it is for a little bump pass to a guy in the slot. A good box, discipline and tying up sticks when necessary will take care of most PK issues. The Preds just seem to have mush between them a lot of times.
Other thing to consider too is you have the best players in the world passing the puck, and there isn't a man alive that moves faster than that puck when passed around properly. That is why discipline for whatever pk is important. Active sticks. Tying them up when you can. Win 50/50 battles. But sometimes, players that are paid to score, score.
A lot of good stuff here!
PK vs Goaltending:
I think Scoreberg had a good response, I too think it's a little of both and I've been hard on the goalies this season. At this point I think the major gafs on defense need to be cleaned up then we can worry about the goalie. As I noted in other threads a good example of this is Josi trying to make a save instead of simply controlling the opponents stick. I believe Pekka would have been able to control the rebound of the initial shot if given a split second to recover instead of needing to make a second save.
Defensemen behind the net:
The general rule is to pressure when there isn't control and block passing lanes when there is. So, as we've seen the Preds fail at this A LOT and as long as it's been happening I have to believe that it is what the coaching staff wanted. There was a sequence in the EDM game I think where Josi and Weber stood at the posts to block passes from a guy behind the net but you could see that their instinct was to attack that player and both of them were going to at first.
If you watch players away from the puck in the Dzone right now you will see them roaming around or doing something that was part of the old system and suddenly realize what they're doing wrong and get back into position. It's kinda funny to me to watch Josi try to remember he's supposed to actually cover the front of the net.
PK vs Goaltending:
I think Scoreberg had a good response, I too think it's a little of both and I've been hard on the goalies this season. At this point I think the major gafs on defense need to be cleaned up then we can worry about the goalie. As I noted in other threads a good example of this is Josi trying to make a save instead of simply controlling the opponents stick. I believe Pekka would have been able to control the rebound of the initial shot if given a split second to recover instead of needing to make a second save.
Defensemen behind the net:
The general rule is to pressure when there isn't control and block passing lanes when there is. So, as we've seen the Preds fail at this A LOT and as long as it's been happening I have to believe that it is what the coaching staff wanted. There was a sequence in the EDM game I think where Josi and Weber stood at the posts to block passes from a guy behind the net but you could see that their instinct was to attack that player and both of them were going to at first.
If you watch players away from the puck in the Dzone right now you will see them roaming around or doing something that was part of the old system and suddenly realize what they're doing wrong and get back into position. It's kinda funny to me to watch Josi try to remember he's supposed to actually cover the front of the net.
Scoresberg
In Trotz We Trust?
Exactly, I don't need to see perfect PK'ing from the team but just simple percentage plays and not giving up the chances we've given up recently. We will still give up shorthanded goals but at least we'll make it harder for the opposition.
The PK'ers should be able to trust our goaltending to do the saves they need to do and not let easy backdoor tap-ins or let a guy walk right in and score. Just worry about their own job.
To me, the easy mistakes also speak of the lack of discipline and that has to be addressed.
The PK'ers should be able to trust our goaltending to do the saves they need to do and not let easy backdoor tap-ins or let a guy walk right in and score. Just worry about their own job.
To me, the easy mistakes also speak of the lack of discipline and that has to be addressed.
These players, in order to reach the NHL, started out as pee-wee players. At every level they advanced they probably received good, if not excellent, coaching particularly as they developed outstanding skills. Most had the requisite junior hockey wherever they are from and spent a year or 2 in the AHL or like European league.
These are seasoned, well coached players. Changing a system of play shouldn’t confuse them; power play performance and penalty killing should not be strange to them.
Turns out putting in hard work and taking care of their assignments is about all they have to remember. They’ve seen it all; there are no new secret plays.
The coach needs to get assignments communicated and then the expectation is that the players will do it.
That leaves only skill levels and I cannot believe this roster of players is lacking those. It has to be lack of hard work and execution.
I do believe they currently miss Sissons(PK) and Ellis(PP,PK). But Preds were bad on both before their injuries.
These are seasoned, well coached players. Changing a system of play shouldn’t confuse them; power play performance and penalty killing should not be strange to them.
Turns out putting in hard work and taking care of their assignments is about all they have to remember. They’ve seen it all; there are no new secret plays.
The coach needs to get assignments communicated and then the expectation is that the players will do it.
That leaves only skill levels and I cannot believe this roster of players is lacking those. It has to be lack of hard work and execution.
I do believe they currently miss Sissons(PK) and Ellis(PP,PK). But Preds were bad on both before their injuries.
Scoresberg
In Trotz We Trust?
This is what we're all afraid of. If these relatively simple things (discipline, special teams) can't be corrected regardless of the coach, then it is on the players and that's a much bigger issue. The most disappointing thing for me about this coaching change has been exactly that, the same problems are still haunting us even if the guy behind the bench is different now.
It's just a tough pill to swallow when you saw this team in -17.
Predsanddead24
Registered User
- Mar 7, 2019
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I think part of the problem is breaking a lot of the habits associated with how they used to run things. At the NHL level especially the game is so fast that you have to make your decisions as a reaction and any delay and the play has gone past you. So while I don't doubt that all the players can easily grasp the concept of the new systems the ability to execute reflexively is going to take time. This applies to all aspects of the game, but special teams in particular. You can often see on the PK that we start out playing well and once players get stuck out there they make a poor decision at the end of their shift. Unfortunately, one mistake is often enough for the puck to end up in the back of the net. At a a larger scale it's why I think since Hynes has taken over we seem to start out the games playing well under the new system and slowly regress back to where we were. Once you get gassed the first thing to go is your brain and you start to go back to old habits.
This is exactly right and the reason our expectations should be realistic on the timeline to see the changes. At 3 games in we've seen the changes progressively more on the ice but I wouldn't expect full scale execution of the plan until after 10 games minimum.
token grinder
Facts Get Deleted
Just as a point of clarification--most of these players didn't start out as Peewees.
Canadian-WombU
Termite-6U
Mite-8U
Squirt-10U
PeeWee-12U
Bantam-14U
Midget-16U
Canadian-WombU
Termite-6U
Mite-8U
Squirt-10U
PeeWee-12U
Bantam-14U
Midget-16U
Ok, but PeeWee has such a ring to it. But you got my point?Just as a point of clarification--most of these players didn't start out as Peewees.
Canadian-WombU
Termite-6U
Mite-8U
Squirt-10U
PeeWee-12U
Bantam-14U
Midget-16U
FossilFndr
RIP Steve
That was a struggle, glad after dominating SOG early that they didn't just collapse after the one Sabres goal. I guess leaving Reinhart open was on Joey who was in the slot watching the puck on the far boards. Everyone else was in position and on their man.
There are worse ways to go into the ASG break.
There are worse ways to go into the ASG break.
Legionnaire11
Registered User
Hal Gill called out Josi on that play saying he should have played Dahlin more aggressively by moving up on him and forcing a play rather than just coming halfway and sweeping his stick.
Kat Predator
Registered User
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It took a perfect pass, and Weber still got his stick on it but wasn't able to get a good enough deflection. Josi gave up too much time and space and he threaded the needle.
wadesworld
Registered User
Not related to any conversation, but one thing I don't like in modern hockey is philosophy of allowing attacking players behind you at the net-front. I guess the idea is try to prevent your defenders from screening the goalie, but I prefer a "never let someone deeper than you (unless below the goal line) defensive philosophy. Stay deeper than them and knock them on their butt when they try to tip/screen.
