Xs and Os question.

[henchman21]

Are you sure you're talking about the Stastny from the last few years and not his first couple? He has not been consistent at all.

Duchene was light years more consistent than Stastny last year.

He has a bit of a point. Excluding this past season because it wasn't a full season. Stastny is the only player on the Avs to get 20+g in the previous two seasons.... Stastny has hit 20+ goals in every one of his seasons that he has played more than 46 games (66 is the next lowest, he didn't make in seasons where he played 45 and 40 games).

 

[Foppa2118]

He has a bit of a point. Excluding this past season because it wasn't a full season. Stastny is the only player on the Avs to get 20+g in the previous two seasons.... Stastny has hit 20+ goals in every one of his seasons that he has played more than 46 games (66 is the next lowest, he didn't make in seasons where he played 45 and 40 games).

20 goal seasons are nice, but it does not represent consistency when you've established yourself as a near PPG player.

In 2010-11 he put up 57 points in 74 games. 2011-12 he put up 53 in 79. Last year he was on a 49 point pace. This is not consistency by his standards.

His first four years where he put up 78 in 82, 71 in 66, and 79 in 81 are what should be considered consistent hockey for Stastny.

The line was "no one brings consistency like Stastny does." Stastny's 49 point pace last year was not better than Duchene's 75 point pace where he might have had one bad game all year.

 

[henchman21]

20 goal seasons are nice, but it does not represent consistency when you've established yourself as a near PPG player.

In 2010-11 he put up 57 points in 74 games. 2011-12 he put up 53 in 79. Last year he was on a 49 point pace. This is not consistency by his standards.

His first four years where he put up 78 in 82, 71 in 66, and 79 in 81 are what should be considered consistent hockey for Stastny.

The line was "no one brings consistency like Stastny does." Stastny's 49 point pace last year was not better than Duchene's 75 point pace where he might have had one bad game all year.

I never said he had a full point on that, just a bit.

It is a sad fact that Stastny has been this team's most consistent goal scorer over his career here.

 

[Pual Statsny]

20 goal seasons are nice, but it does not represent consistency when you've established yourself as a near PPG player.

In 2010-11 he put up 57 points in 74 games. 2011-12 he put up 53 in 79. Last year he was on a 49 point pace. This is not consistency by his standards.

His first four years where he put up 78 in 82, 71 in 66, and 79 in 81 are what should be considered consistent hockey for Stastny.

The line was "no one brings consistency like Stastny does." Stastny's 49 point pace last year was not better than Duchene's 75 point pace where he might have had one bad game all year.

Quote all of the stats you want, but Stastny was the most consistent player in every zone last year, the year before, and the year before that. Duchene lit up the scoreboard and made some nice neutral zone plays, but he was still often out of position on the breakout and relied on his stick too much to make defensive plays.

Stastny brought the same discipline and hockey IQ to every game, but it was ill reflected by the scoreboard.

 

[Avs_19]

Stastny was more consistent than Duchene last season and more consistent than O'Reilly the year before?

 

[Bonzai12]

lol @ Stastny consistent.


Is he a 50 point consistent center or a 70 point? Because some of you guys will tell us he needs better wingers to produce the 70 points, despite spending a top 3 draft (Landeskog) and trading for 2 wingers (Downie/McGinn). Ironically, Downie’s gone downhill since joining the Avs and McGinn’s production has stagnated. So do we need to spend more money on wingers? If so, then why are we paying Paul so much? I somewhat sympathize with the winger debate, but if we have to pay 2 elite wingers +$6M to get Paul to perform, then he needs to take a cut to about $4M. There’s got to be a threat from Paul to open up space for the wingers and I don’t really see that in him anymore like I did in his first few years with the Avs. Maybe that’s because Joe was taking away attention from Paul. The problem with Paul is that he’s established himself as an assists guy, but a mediocre one. Guys like Adam Oates could play with lesser skilled players on the flanks and still post great assist numbers. I hate the concept that our most expensive player is only as good as the guys playing with him. That just doesn’t seem right at all.

 

[henchman21]

lol @ Stastny consistent.


Is he a 50 point consistent center or a 70 point? Because some of you guys will tell us he needs better wingers to produce the 70 points, despite spending a top 3 draft (Landeskog) and trading for 2 wingers (Downie/McGinn). Ironically, Downie’s gone downhill since joining the Avs and McGinn’s production has stagnated. So do we need to spend more money on wingers? If so, then why are we paying Paul so much? I somewhat sympathize with the winger debate, but if we have to pay 2 elite wingers +$6M to get Paul to perform, then he needs to take a cut to about $4M. There’s got to be a threat from Paul to open up space for the wingers and I don’t really see that in him anymore like I did in his first few years with the Avs. Maybe that’s because Joe was taking away attention from Paul. The problem with Paul is that he’s established himself as an assists guy, but a mediocre one. Guys like Adam Oates could play with lesser skilled players on the flanks and still post great assist numbers. I hate the concept that our most expensive player is only as good as the guys playing with him. That just doesn’t seem right at all.

McGinn spent most of last season with Duchene and PAP. Landeskog has spent ~85-90% of his career with ROR (about another 5% with Duchene).... and Downie has never played with Stastny on a line. The most consistent winger for Stastny over the past couple seasons was David Jones.

I understand what you are trying to say, but Stastny really has gotten the shaft with linemates over the past couple seasons. The last time he was really producing he had a legit top 6 maybe top line winger in Stewart on his line with a tweener on the other side. Before Stewart it was Hejduk. For all of McGinn and Jones and Kobasew's talents, you will never mistake them for a Stewart or pre-downhill slide Hejduk.

 

[Avs_19]

McGinn spent most of last season with Duchene and PAP. Landeskog has spent ~85-90% of his career with ROR (about another 5% with Duchene).... and Downie has never played with Stastny on a line. The most consistent winger for Stastny over the past couple seasons was David Jones.

I understand what you are trying to say, but Stastny really has gotten the shaft with linemates over the past couple seasons. The last time he was really producing he had a legit top 6 maybe top line winger in Stewart on his line with a tweener on the other side. Before Stewart it was Hejduk. For all of McGinn and Jones and Kobasew's talents, you will never mistake them for a Stewart or pre-downhill slide Hejduk.

This time last year we were talking about being set with the McGinn-Stastny-Jones line because they played so well together after the trade with the Sharks. Most of us thought our offense would take a huge step forward with that line being one of the biggest reasons for it. You can't go from talking up that line in the summer to saying Stastny once again got the shaft when it comes to linemates. McGinn got moved off that line in a hurry and Jones played horribly but I thought Stastny was also very inconsistent. I won't go as far as Dater who ripped Stastny and Jones everytime they got scored on but Stastny had a lot of bad games. It wasn't all because of his linemates.

 

[Bonzai12]

Seriously how many wingers do they gotta try with Stastny until we point the finger at the guy centering the line? He's not terrible, but he doesn't exactly make guys around him better either, which is usually a requirement if the main traits you bring in your game are defense and passing.

 

[henchman21]

This time last year we were talking about being set with the McGinn-Stastny-Jones line because they played so well together after the trade with the Sharks. Most of us thought our offense would take a huge step forward with that line being one of the biggest reasons for it. You can't go from talking up that line in the summer to saying Stastny once again got the shaft when it comes to linemates. McGinn got moved off that line in a hurry and Jones played horribly but I thought Stastny was also very inconsistent. I won't go as far as Dater who ripped Stastny and Jones everytime they got scored on but Stastny had a lot of bad games. It wasn't all because of his linemates.

I'm not saying Stastny is infallible here... just saying that it doesn't paint an accurate picture. Stastny can take a lot of blame for the way the season went and his own inconsistency.

A McGinn-Stastny-Jones line working like it did to end the season last year would have been a big improvement to the team.... but nobody envisioned a 3 goal 6 assist season from Jones, and when Landy got hurt McGinn went right to Duchene's line (and McGinn hit a lot of posts to begin the season with Stastny). Leaving Stastny with a Kobasew/McLeod/Jones/Mitchell/Palushaj combination of wingers. Not many players would produce in those situations AND getting ~41% offensive zone starts. Stastny is at fault for his lack of production, but he isn't the only one.

 

[henchman21]

Seriously how many wingers do they gotta try with Stastny until we point the finger at the guy centering the line? He's not terrible, but he doesn't exactly make guys around him better either, which is usually a requirement if the main traits you bring in your game are defense and passing.

Doesn't matter how many you try if they are all 2nd/3rd or worse line tweeners which is exactly what McGinn and Jones are right now. When they are hot they are 2nd line players, when they are not they are 3rd line or worse players.

On a team you can get away with running a tweener in the top 6 if they other two players on the line are good... Duchene/PAP, ROR/Landy, Stastny/Stewart or Pre2011 Hejduk, but when you put two tweeners around a top center, unless that center is a Crosby type, you will have a line that is inconsistent at scoring.

 

[Foppa2118]

Quote all of the stats you want, but Stastny was the most consistent player in every zone last year, the year before, and the year before that. Duchene lit up the scoreboard and made some nice neutral zone plays, but he was still often out of position on the breakout and relied on his stick too much to make defensive plays.

Stastny brought the same discipline and hockey IQ to every game, but it was ill reflected by the scoreboard.

Quote all the stats? What the hell were we talking about? Defensive consistency? Intangibles consistency? If that's what you were talking about, O'Reilly is way more consistent and effective.

Stastny was a model of consistency his first few years in the league. Not his last few.

 

[Bonzai12]

Doesn't matter how many you try if they are all 2nd/3rd or worse line tweeners which is exactly what McGinn and Jones are right now. When they are hot they are 2nd line players, when they are not they are 3rd line or worse players.

On a team you can get away with running a tweener in the top 6 if they other two players on the line are good... Duchene/PAP, ROR/Landy, Stastny/Stewart or Pre2011 Hejduk, but when you put two tweeners around a top center, unless that center is a Crosby type, you will have a line that is inconsistent at scoring.

There's plenty of reasons why every quality winger on this roster plays better on ROR or Duchene's line (and probably eventually will with McKinnon as well). I consider Stastny to be our 3rd center right now, maybe even 4th. He just isn't enough of a threat anymore to pair him with anyone decent.

 

[DarioinDenver]

He got buried in his own zone with bad D behind him. That's the story basically. When you get a defensive zone draw against the other team's best forwards you generally spend your 30+ seconds getting a clear, you change and that's it. Maybe you get a shot on goal but you're lucky if you spend 10 seconds in the offensive zone. Also, putting Jones on his wing for those D zone draws didn't do him any favors. Jones isn't exactly a take away specialist that will start a good breakout.

The team will still likely suffer this next season without a bona-fide defensive minded third line. Stastny and Duchene will be taking more D zone draws to protect MacKinnon.

Here's Stastny's season in a nut shell.

 

[Bonzai12]

If anything, that chart just shows me that Stastny's assumed the role of McClement, who had a similiar chart and was taking those draws the year before. With MacKinnon on board I think he's going to see that role increase even morseso.

Should have never let go of McClement. I'll never understand that move. We're paying Stastny almost 2 times the price and McClement did as well (if not better) of a job on the defensive end and in faceoffs.

I really do believe the organization had given up on Stastny. It will be interesting to see where Roy rolls him out in the season opener. That will probably be very indicative of their status of negotiations with Stastny as well.

 

[henchman21]

There's plenty of reasons why every quality winger on this roster plays better on ROR or Duchene's line (and probably eventually will with McKinnon as well). I consider Stastny to be our 3rd center right now, maybe even 4th. He just isn't enough of a threat anymore to pair him with anyone decent.

Pure hyperbole... McGinn played his best hockey with Stastny... same with Jones... same with Stewart... etc. Landeskog is probably the only example of a player that hasn't played better with Stastny than somebody else.

I will repeat this time and time again... Stastny is at fault for his lack of production, but he isn't the only one at fault.

 

[Ivan13]

If anything, that chart just shows me that Stastny's assumed the role of McClement, who had a similiar chart and was taking those draws the year before. With MacKinnon on board I think he's going to see that role increase even morseso.

Should have never let go of McClement. I'll never understand that move. We're paying Stastny almost 2 times the price and McClement did as well (if not better) of a job on the defensive end and in faceoffs.

I really do believe the organization had given up on Stastny. It will be interesting to see where Roy rolls him out in the season opener. That will probably be very indicative of their status of negotiations with Stastny as well.

Avs offered Jay significantly more than the Leafs, but he wanted to go home, to say they've let him go isn't the truth.

And one more thing, Paulie is way better when it comes to taking faceoffs.

 

[AslanRH]

I feel it is very important to remember that Sacco's style of play was less suited to Stastny's when evaluating "consistency" issues. There was far less cycling and possession (Stastny's bread and butter IMO) with Sacco. Blame it on anything, poor dump ins, our forwards did not retrieve the puck well, Jones possesses the puck like its a greased pig, whatever.

I think we will see a better Stastny if he has another possession guy (Tanguay) next to him this year and if the Avs control the puck entering the zone more rather than chasing it in.

 

[Pual Statsny]

He got buried in his own zone with bad D behind him. That's the story basically. When you get a defensive zone draw against the other team's best forwards you generally spend your 30+ seconds getting a clear, you change and that's it. Maybe you get a shot on goal but you're lucky if you spend 10 seconds in the offensive zone. Also, putting Jones on his wing for those D zone draws didn't do him any favors. Jones isn't exactly a take away specialist that will start a good breakout.

The team will still likely suffer this next season without a bona-fide defensive minded third line. Stastny and Duchene will be taking more D zone draws to protect MacKinnon.

Here's Stastny's season in a nut shell.

Sacco essentially asked Stastny to do everything while he was on the ice, and he did it pretty well neglecting the offensive side of things. He did it because he couldn't trust any other center with that aspect.

And to clarify, Dater spent most of his time criticizing Stastny for not "elevating his game when the moment called." This is very different than "playing badly."

The organization hadn't given up on Stastny, he was the only player they trusted to do their dirty work.