Post-Game Talk: WSH @ TOR | 10/29/19 | 7PM EST

[traparatus]

Caps are paying Hagelin $2.75 million. They are not gonna put him on the 4th line unless he's really struggling with his game.

There is nothing wrong with paying $2.75 to an elite 4th liner and primary PK guy. Bump their ice time to ~14min range and things get pretty blurry as far as what's the 4th/3rd line, anyway.

 

[Melkor]

Sorry for dumb question but what happened to Panik?

 

[traparatus]

Sorry for dumb question but what happened to Panik?

He paniked and ran away.

Just kidding. Siegenthaler nogginned him pretty hard and he is now on LTIR. His impact on Caps' success continues undiminished.

 

[Melkor]

He paniked and ran away.

Just kidding. Siegenthaler nogginned him pretty hard and he is now on LTIR. His impact on Caps' success continues undiminished.

Damn the guy sure cant catch a break.

 

[traparatus]

Damn the guy sure cant catch a break.

I know. That's about as rough a start as a new player can have.

I have to place my trust in BMac here. He doesn't always get everything a 100% right but he almost never makes complete blunders. If he signed Panik to that deal, there must be something to this guy. At least, I hope so 'cause he was completely useless prior to his inglorious exit.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

I know. That's about as rough a start as a new player can have.

I have to place my trust in BMac here. He doesn't always get everything a 100% right but he almost never makes complete blunders. If he signed Panik to that deal, there must be something to this guy. At least, I hope so 'cause he was completely useless prior to his inglorious exit.

I wouldn't say he was useless. He brought elements that they wanted which was size along the boards, strength with the puck, and some speed through the neutral zone but it's clear he wasn't totally comfortable in the system yet. He was unlucky a few times or else he would have been on the scoreboard, and I believe they played him on PP1 when Kuznetsov was suspended, so it's clear the coaches saw value in him.

I think fans generally underestimate how difficult it can be for players to learn new systems in hockey. It's the reason that most deadline acquisitions turn out to be busts. It's why a lot of FAs struggle the first half of the season with their new teams. Some guys adapt quicker than others but all players go through an adaptation process. This isn't a video game where you just plug a player into a roster and everything is fine right away.

 

[traparatus]

I wouldn't say he was useless. He brought elements that they wanted which was size along the boards, strength with the puck, and some speed through the neutral zone but it's clear he wasn't totally comfortable in the system yet. He was unlucky a few times or else he would have been on the scoreboard, and I believe they played him on PP1 when Kuznetsov was suspended, so it's clear the coaches saw value in him.

I think fans generally underestimate how difficult it can be for players to learn new systems in hockey. It's the reason that most deadline acquisitions turn out to be busts. It's why a lot of FAs struggle the first half of the season with their new teams. Some guys adapt quicker than others but all players go through an adaptation process. This isn't a video game where you just plug a player into a roster and everything is fine right away.

Maybe useless is the wrong word. He wasn't doing anything that, for example, Stephenson cannot do.

I don't know. He played eight games. I was kind of expecting to see a glimmer of offense somewhere in there. 7 shots on goal in that time. I'm not giving up or anything, I'm somewhat concerned.

 

[895]

Pretend Hathaway and Panik switch salaries and everything is okay.

 

[Melkor]

I wouldn't say he was useless. He brought elements that they wanted which was size along the boards, strength with the puck, and some speed through the neutral zone but it's clear he wasn't totally comfortable in the system yet. He was unlucky a few times or else he would have been on the scoreboard, and I believe they played him on PP1 when Kuznetsov was suspended, so it's clear the coaches saw value in him.

I think fans generally underestimate how difficult it can be for players to learn new systems in hockey. It's the reason that most deadline acquisitions turn out to be busts. It's why a lot of FAs struggle the first half of the season with their new teams. Some guys adapt quicker than others but all players go through an adaptation process. This isn't a video game where you just plug a player into a roster and everything is fine right away.

It's all understandable, sure. But the fact is he has not delivered the way he's supposed to yet. Wouldnt call it a fact but there are even some opinions that he totally sucked so far. His offensive contribution would be much appreciated considering that the team is tight against the cap.

Pretend Hathaway and Panik switch salaries and everything is okay.

Even for Hathaway's money Panik looked underwhelming.

 

[txpd]

Funny to hear this from OV considering what went down before 2018.

Maybe he sees it all differently now.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Sure, Panik has not delivered enough offense through eight games; I'll grant you that if that's an important point to concede. I will also note that through his first 14 games as a Capital Brett Connolly had one point. He had three points his first fifteen games (and two of those points came in the same game). I think we're all pretty happy with how signing Conno turned out. Maybe give Panik more than a few games before we start calling him useless and a bust?

 

[txpd]

I'd like to see Reirden eventually put Hagelin, Dowd/Stephenson and Hathaway together and give them a little more ice time than a typical 4th line, somewhere in the ~14min range.

Not sure were you get the minutes from to skate Dowd 14 mins. Vrana and Hagelin are already averaging that. Meanwhile you have to consider the assignments that these lines are getting. Hagelin has a job and he wont be doing that job on the 4th line. When you look at line combinations consider the jobs these forwards are suppposed to be doing. Right now the Caps shutdown forward groups have been either
Ov Backstrom Wilson or Hagelin Kuzy Wilson. Hagelin is the best defensive LW, Backstrom the best defensive center, Wilson the best defensive RW. Hagelin on the 4th line doesnt work for that structure.

 

[txpd]

Sure, Panik has not delivered enough offense through eight games; I'll grant you that if that's an important point to concede. I will also note that through his first 14 games as a Capital Brett Connolly had one point. He had three points his first fifteen games (and two of those points came in the same game). I think we're all pretty happy with how signing Conno turned out. Maybe give Panik more than a few games before we start calling him useless and a bust?

I would just cut Panik some slack. Its not at all unusual for a player changing teams to have a rough first year. Panik probably only needs time to get used to the new team....that and now recovering from a concussion as well

 

[traparatus]

Not sure were you get the minutes from to skate Dowd 14 mins. Vrana and Hagelin are already averaging that. Meanwhile you have to consider the assignments that these lines are getting. Hagelin has a job and he wont be doing that job on the 4th line. When you look at line combinations consider the jobs these forwards are suppposed to be doing. Right now the Caps shutdown forward groups have been either
Ov Backstrom Wilson or Hagelin Kuzy Wilson. Hagelin is the best defensive LW, Backstrom the best defensive center, Wilson the best defensive RW. Hagelin on the 4th line doesnt work for that structure.

What if we had a four line team? It's not a radical concept. That way we don't end up in game 7 double OT against Carolina with 'shutdown' specialists Ovechkin and Backtrom looking like two geriatrics while Canes skate circles around them.

I don't know why you have the need to always explain what the team is right now or how they use players. I watch every game, I know what the team is. So does pretty much everyone else on the board. That doesn't mean that it's infallible or the ultimate winning deployment.

 

[txpd]

What if we had a four line team? It's not a radical concept. That way we don't end up in game 7 double OT against Carolina with 'shutdown' specialists Ovechkin and Backtrom looking like two geriatrics while Canes skate circles around them.

I don't know why you have the need to always explain what the team is right now or how they use players. I watch every game, I know what the team is. So does pretty much everyone else on the board. That doesn't mean that it's infallible or the ultimate winning deployment.

ok....I will shut up. fair enough?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I wouldn't say he was useless. He brought elements that they wanted which was size along the boards, strength with the puck, and some speed through the neutral zone but it's clear he wasn't totally comfortable in the system yet. He was unlucky a few times or else he would have been on the scoreboard, and I believe they played him on PP1 when Kuznetsov was suspended, so it's clear the coaches saw value in him.

I think fans generally underestimate how difficult it can be for players to learn new systems in hockey. It's the reason that most deadline acquisitions turn out to be busts. It's why a lot of FAs struggle the first half of the season with their new teams. Some guys adapt quicker than others but all players go through an adaptation process. This isn't a video game where you just plug a player into a roster and everything is fine right away.

interesting theory, but this isn’t like learning an NFL playbook. I think the personal adjustments are just as difficult and potentially impactful in a bad way.

 

[racingmoose]

What if we had a four line team? It's not a radical concept. That way we don't end up in game 7 double OT against Carolina with 'shutdown' specialists Ovechkin and Backtrom looking like two geriatrics while Canes skate circles around them.

This. All the effort to improve the bottom 6 should result in a better distribution of ice time that we're not seeing yet. Teams that can run 4 lines for major portions of a game in the playoffs are generally very successful.

 

[txpd]

This. All the effort to improve the bottom 6 should result in a better distribution of ice time that we're not seeing yet. Teams that can run 4 lines for major portions of a game in the playoffs are generally very successful.

Right. What does that have to do with the 4 lines having assignments? If the Caps are down by a goal with 30 seconds left in the game. do you really want to see the Dowd or Eller line on the ice? Of course not. Would really give Dowd and Eller as many offensive zone starts and Backstrom? Would you really give Kuzy as many defensive zone starts as Eller?

 

[marcel snapshot]

Nicky gifts em a cheapie.
Now Kuzy hurt

 

[aonb]

i have 6 beers, one for every goal against us. Should be enough, right? Right?

 

[GoCaps2004]

lmao what an awful start

 

[marcel snapshot]

That’s a weasel play by Kerfoot. Wouldn’t be surprised if he has to answer for that

 

[twabby]

Yikes

 

[txpd]

Collarbone. Looks like the TJ thing. How long was Oshie supposed to be out?

 

[Blitzkrieg365]

Couldn't ask for a worse start. Kempny with a layup to the Leafs and Orlov with a trip that leads to Kuzy getting injured.

 

[GoCaps2004]

That’s a weasel play by Kerfoot. Wouldn’t be surprised if he has to answer for that

not sure i saw anything malicious there...