Traded [WSH/OTT] Connor Brown for 2024 2nd round pick

[bicboi64]

Yea and the obvious guy was the one who didn’t want to be here and who was being upgraded at 2RW

You're overlooking the bigger picture.

Part of the reason Brown was traded was because Dorion rushed to acquire Talbot. In acquiring Talbot, Dorion gave himself a lot less flexibility with the Talbot trade and rushed to move Brown because of it. Its not that he didn't want to be here, Brown never requested a trade, telling your GM that you intend on testing FA isn't the same as asking for a trade. Regardless of who was moved, its just poor vision considering Formenton's situation.

 

[GCK]

Idk that they are necessarily directly related. Dorion has been vocal about looking to add a Dman and I think moving Brown would play into that more than Giroux.

Either way, they don't own the guys a penny until October, signing bonuses aside, so moves being made shortly after one another doesn't mean they were financially linked.

I realize the money owed isn’t paid until October but from an accounting perspective that is still a liability on the books. We have no idea what financial rules Dorion was working on this summer but the timing of buying out Del Zotto on the 12th and moving Brown on the 13th meant 5.9M out the door at the same time as Giroux was signed. In fact during that week we sent out 15M and brought in 19M.

 

[Micklebot]

I realize the money owed isn’t paid until October but from an accounting perspective that is still a liability on the books. We have no idea what financial rules Dorion was working on this summer but the timing of buying out Del Zotto on the 12th and moving Brown on the 13th meant 5.9M out the door at the same time as Giroux was signed. In fact during that week we sent out 15M and brought in 19M.

We know he's been looking to add a D, he had to add Motte because of moving Brown so your already down to only saving 2.65. We added an extra contract in Brassard too.

You're right that we don't know what kind of financial constraints we have which is why I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume they were directly linked particularly when there was months to manoeuvre before actually having to expend any funds.

 

[GCK]

We know he's been looking to add a D, he had to add Motte because of moving Brown so your already down to only saving 2.65. We added an extra contract in Brassard too.

You're right that we don't know what kind of financial constraints we have which is why I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume they were directly linked particularly when there was months to manoeuvre before actually having to expend any funds.

Cool we can agree to disagree, it just seems obvious to me.

 

[Micklebot]

Cool we can agree to disagree, it just seems obvious to me.

At the time, all the speculation and rumour I heard were that it was tied to some deals for a Dman that fell through, that seems more logical to me, considering we allegedly continued to try and add on well after.

 

[GCK]

At the time, all the speculation and rumour I heard were that it was tied to some deals for a Dman that fell through, that seems more logical to me, considering we allegedly continued to try and add on well after.

That came from @benjiv1. Didn’t hear that anywhere else.

 

[Micklebot]

That came from @benjiv1. Didn’t hear that anywhere else.

He's got a pretty solid track record, and I'd heard things myself but whatever.

 

[playasRus]

Was C. Brown in the house tonight?

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

He's got a pretty solid track record, and I'd heard things myself but whatever.

I think @NyQuil said something similar as well.

 

[Ice-Tray]

You don’t hold on to a relatively expensive player that you’re pushing down the lineup, who asks for a move, going into the most important season of the rebuild so far.

It’s funny, when you listen to everything said it just becomes pretty obvious. DJ the other day was talking about how the players being happy, their mental happiness and health was extremely important to their on ice production. Add that to the endless talk of how close everyone is and how everyone has bought into the process, and it’s incredibly obvious that we would never start the season with a guy who didn’t want to be here, especially a heart and soul guy like Brown.

It was never going to happen, the money out makes sense as we still have room now for the season, but the human side of the game is pretty clear in terms of how the Sens operate. It really isn’t a big loss to be honest, Motte and Joseph have been solid on that third line, and Motte on the PK. I’m not sure Brown would be making much more of an impact in either role.

He’s getting a great contract year chance in Washington, though this injury has put a dent in that, along with the obvious illustration of why you don’t hold on to guys who want out thinking you’ll get more at the TDL. Injuries happen.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

And Dorion chose to address goaltending immediately even though he knew he still had to pursue forwards like Giroux or whomever else when FA started.

He prioritized goaltending and it put him in a situation where salary would have to be shed from other places to get impact players in FA like Giroux.

With forsberg proving that last year wasn't a fluke, it's pretty easy to wish that dorion targeted defense instead of another goalie. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess. Team would be better off with gus as a backup and a better player in hamonics spot.

But I do understand the reasoning behind getting talbot. Who knows, when talbot comes back and pushes for starts forsberg might be forced to up his game even more.

 

[NyQuil]

Team would be better off with gus as a backup and a better player in hamonics spot.

I don't know about that. We've got guys like JBD and Thomson as depth.

Gus is rocking a 5.06 and an .860 right now with the Wild - only 2 games of play but still concerning.

A team that competes for the playoffs needs to be resilient because you can't just hope that everyone stays healthy for the season.

 

[GCK]

I don't know about that. We've got guys like JBD and Thomson as depth.

Gus is rocking a 5.06 and an .860 right now with the Wild - only 2 games of play but still concerning.

A team that competes for the playoffs needs to be resilient because you can't just hope that everyone stays healthy for the season.

I’m fairly positive Talbot will play an important role in getting us to the playoffs if it happens.

 

[bicboi64]

With forsberg proving that last year wasn't a fluke, it's pretty easy to wish that dorion targeted defense instead of another goalie. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess. Team would be better off with gus as a backup and a better player in hamonics spot.

But I do understand the reasoning behind getting talbot. Who knows, when talbot comes back and pushes for starts forsberg might be forced to up his game even more.

for what its worth I wasn't a fan of the Talbot acquisition at the time because Iacquiring a back up 1a/b shouldn't be a priority since we had already extended Forsberg. I want Talbot to succeed as a Senator, just really wish we moved Brown in a way that gave us something back so we don't rely on Sanderson keeping up his current level of play for 82 games and Hamonic.

 

[Xspyrit]

I agree with this, but my main issue is the acquisition of Talbot right before trading Brown. If they felt there's not enough space for Brown, sure I guess you move him. But to only get a 2nd round pick instead of a player that might address a team need, and then spend $3 million in capspace/cash on Talbot in a trade that I feel we should have gotten more since we were helping a team that was cash strapped, it just feels like poor vision. I wish Dorion had used Brown for defensive help. More help on the blueline can help protect crappy goalies as well, but also help inexperienced ones get better.

Yeah Talbot is now 35 y/o and Gustavsson showed really well in the past when the defense in front of him was decent. That 3 M$ + Brown's 3.6/4.0 could have been spent on a D-man to help out the team defense, and then ultimately the goalies. I would have felt much better about this if it was the way Brown was traded. A 2nd round pick in 2024 doesn't accomplish much for the rebuild.

Can't criticize Dorion too much this year since he at least made some very good moves (DeBrincat, Giroux and Murray's dump). He got lucky with Giroux wanting an hometown retirement contract but still, credit where credit is due.

Didn’t want to be here as per his exit interview.

Was pissed off that Paul was traded, and that the team didn’t see him as a top 6 winger.

He was being traded regardless of what happened with Formenton.

And while you can say you would have rather had him vs Motte+Brassard+Gambrell, you need that depth in case of injuries, and were going to spend the $ on it regardless. (Although Gambrell is likely redundant)

Now that's a reason I can buy, something happened and he got disgruntled with someone in the organization (management and/or player(s)). It's weird because it seemed like it was great fit the 3 previous years. Maybe Paul was the last straw for him. He could have still played the season here or a part of the season, he was aware of his contract status...

Regarding Gambrell, I still don't get it. He's just there. With Giroux and Joseph (and Greig) being able to play Center, we are fine depth wise. The guy sitting in the pressbox when all forwards are healthy could have been Hawryluk. Then there was plenty of guys to call up (Crookshank, Lodin, Greig, Sokolov, Jarventie, Daoust, even Reinhardt or Sabourin). At least it helps making Belleville a bit deeper I guess.

That being said, happy with the Brassard signing, he's a vet, he's been there before and has a lot of playoffs experience (even more than Giroux)

Also, I don't mind Motte but I would like him to be on our 4th line exclusively and also not lead our forwards in SH TOI/GP

Kelly - Kastelic - Motte
Motte - Kastelic - Watson

Now we need an upgrade on 3rd line LW. Hopefully someone like Crookshank or Greig shows up eventually.

 

[Qward]

Was C. Brown in the house tonight?

Nope, he was injured.

 

[Xspyrit]

Here is a timeline for you.

July 13, FA Day

11:32AM - McKenzie tweets the Brown to Edmonton deal is done barring any last minute hiccups

12:01 - Friedman reports Giroux to Ottawa

5:52PM - McKenzie reports Brown to Capitals

I don’t know about anyone else but that timeline tells me Dorion had to unload Brown’s 4.2M in order to sign Giroux.

4.0 is now 4.2? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on this lol

Again. Did we need to have 2 forwards sitting every game? There's a LOT of call up options in Belleville.

Motte 1.35 + Gambrell 0.95 = 2.3

Let's say we still sign Brassard even if Brown was never traded. Ok so we saved 1.7, great. Then 3.0 was used to upgrade Gustavsson to Talbot? Instead of a RHD?

I know you have repeated this thing about the internal budget ad nauseam but I don't know, for me having an internal budget just a few millions under a $82,500,000 cap sounds kinda weird and stupid. Might as well be ready to do like every other NHL team.

IMO, they should have been patient with this. Wait at least until training camp. Wait after a few injuries among other teams (or yours). He was only going to start getting paid in October. Unless he was threatening to bomb the CTC, I am not sure what the rush was. And it would have bought more time to see what happens with Formenton and Batherson. But I guess a 2nd round pick in 2024 was an opportunity we couldn't pass up

Also, look at my post above.

I don't know about that. We've got guys like JBD and Thomson as depth.

Gus is rocking a 5.06 and an .860 right now with the Wild - only 2 games of play but still concerning.

A team that competes for the playoffs needs to be resilient because you can't just hope that everyone stays healthy for the season.

Future HOFer goalie has even worse stats, it's obviously a team defense problem. Goalies are only a reflection of the team and systems in front of them. I have seen enough about Gustavsson's ability that I think he could be a good goalie in this league.

I don't mind going with the safer option in Talbot (if we were a 100% cap team?) but that 3.0 additional expense could have probably be spent somewhere else (3rd line LW or RHD)

And regarding health, that's another factor why still having Brown would have been great. Any injury to the top-8 forwards and our impressive top-9 depth diminishes, which is the ONLY advantage we have on some of our rivals.

 

[NyQuil]

And regarding health, that's another factor why still having Brown would have been great. Any injury to the top-8 forwards and our impressive top-9 depth diminishes, which is the ONLY advantage we have on some of our rivals.

Ironically, Brown himself is out to injury long-term.

I still think Formenton was originally intended to be part of that depth when the trade occurred.

Pushing someone like Motte down to the 4th line opens up a lot of possibilities. Alas, it will probably never happen at this stage.

 

[DueDiligence]

for what its worth I wasn't a fan of the Talbot acquisition at the time because Iacquiring a back up 1a/b shouldn't be a priority since we had already extended Forsberg. I want Talbot to succeed as a Senator, just really wish we moved Brown in a way that gave us something back so we don't rely on Sanderson keeping up his current level of play for 82 games and Hamonic.

You make it sound like Forsberg has a 5 year track record of success as a starter. Simply not true and that's the main reason management prioritized getting another experienced "starter" in net. If Forsberg flopped the team would a have a proven vet to turn to.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Ironically, Brown himself is out to injury long-term.

I still think Formenton was originally intended to be part of that depth when the trade occurred.

Pushing someone like Motte down to the 4th line opens up a lot of possibilities. Alas, it will probably never happen at this stage.

3rd liners can be had at the deadline too. If we're in the race, it could be a spot they look to upgrade if Forms doesn't end up coming back.

You make it sound like Forsberg has a 5 year track record of success as a starter. Simply not true and that's the main reason management prioritized getting another experienced "starter" in net. If Forsberg flopped the team would a have a proven vet to turn to.

For the cost, it was a no brainer. 1 year runway to decide what to do next while having a proven B option. We have a bad history of flashes in the pans getting signed and turning back in to pumpkins.

 

[Xspyrit]

Ironically, Brown himself is out to injury long-term.

I still think Formenton was originally intended to be part of that depth when the trade occurred.

Pushing someone like Motte down to the 4th line opens up a lot of possibilities. Alas, it will probably never happen at this stage.

The irony doesn't matter at all because he probably wouldn't have been injured at all in the hypothetical scenario that if he was still in Ottawa

Banking on a guy possibly involved in such a scandal to be part of your team was kind of short sighted to say the least.

That's why holding onto Brown until further development would have been more insightful. All of this was already part of my argumentation when the trade happened.

3rd liners can be had at the deadline too. If we're in the race, it could be a spot they look to upgrade if Forms doesn't end up coming back

Excellent 3rd liners/middle 6 forwards are very expensive at the deadline though, probably significantly more than a 2024 second round pick.

 

[NyQuil]

The irony doesn't matter at all because he probably wouldn't have been injured at all in the hypothetical scenario that if he was still in Ottawa

He hasn't played close to a full season in what is now 4 seasons in a row.

Excellent 3rd liners/middle 6 forwards are very expensive at the deadline though, probably significantly more than a 2024 second round pick.

It really depends on where we are at the standings whether we're going to be buyers anyway.

 

[Xspyrit]

He hasn't played close to a full season in what is now 4 seasons in a row.

Who? Connor Brown?

Last season was the FIRST time he missed NHL games in his career... I know we want to forget about the pandemic but Brown played 100% of his team games in 2019-20 and 2020-21

He was pretty much an iron man before last season's injury

 

[NyQuil]

Who? Connor Brown?

Last season was the FIRST time he missed NHL games in his career... I know we want to forget about the pandemic but Brown played 100% of his team games in 2019-20 and 2020-21

Well, shut my mouth, it was the pandemic. It's all a blur to me sometimes.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Excellent 3rd liners/middle 6 forwards are very expensive at the deadline though, probably significantly more than a 2024 second round pick.

They can be for sure, but I'm willing to take my chances. I don't quite share your opinion on the Brown situation even though I agree he's a useful player. I was fine with moving on when we did.