Confirmed Trade: [WSH/DET] Anthony Mantha for Jakub Vrana, Richard Panik, 2021 1st, and 2022 2nd

[txpd]

And the plain fact is you have no idea how he would have faired in that role and he absolutely would have been better than Erat.

Trying to justify the trade and say it was actually a win because you won tje Cup like 4 years later is ridiculous.

Well, I never said it was a good trade. I think that in this thread I said the exact opposite. Where did I justify the trade? I said it was a disaster. That they trade him was not. Nashville was desperate for a quality offense. The Capitals were not. Just the opposite in fact. The ONLY thing I said was that his opporunities with the Caps would have been significantly different and as such his development would have looked different.

 

[txpd]

I still think the Caps did the deal both to shed Panik's salary cap hit, and get the cost certainty of Mantha since his deal goes longer than Vrana

This is true. After arbitration the Caps would have had to trade Vrana or other signed roster player to make the cap work.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Well, I never said it was a good trade. I think that in this thread I said the exact opposite. Where did I justify the trade? I said it was a disaster. That they trade him was not. Nashville was desperate for a quality offense. The Capitals were not. Just the opposite in fact. The ONLY thing I said was that his opporunities with the Caps would have been significantly different and as such his development would have looked different.

But you really fail to acknowledge he could have ended up just as good or better than he is now as well. We have no idea. Just assuming he would be worse because of a lesser role is a wrong way to think

 

[txpd]

But you really fail to acknowledge he could have ended up just as good or better than he is now as well. We have no idea. Just assuming he would be worse because of a lesser role is a wrong way to think

Ok....enlighten me. How? I am open minded.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Ok....enlighten me. How? I am open minded.

Easier matchups (Caps fans have insisted this is why Mantha's numbers will improve), better teammates, better leadership and skilled players yo learn from, more open system to display his skills.

Really cant assume he wouldnt be as good just because he would have less ice time.

 

[txpd]

Easier matchups (Caps fans have insisted this is why Mantha's numbers will improve), better teammates, better leadership and skilled players yo learn from, more open system to display his skills.

Really cant assume he wouldnt be as good just because he would have less ice time.

I am not talking about Mantha. If Mantha is better, great. Vrana was not better in part because he didnt like where he sat in the pecking order. He was not going to be a featured player for years to come at best. There was not going to be a power play that fit any of his skills until Ovechkin, Backstrom, Carlson and Oshie left(and Kuznetsov)

For Forsberg, he was going to get 3rd line matchups and 3rd line ice time. Burakovsky scored 37 or so even strenth points playing 6 mins less than Forsberg in his best points season(I think he has 42 evp) but the 20+pp points he had wouldnt have happened. There is only so much ice time.

His rookie season with Nashville was Trotz first season in Washington and would have been his rookie season had he stayed. He would have beaten Burakovsky out for that spot in the lineup. The Caps from about game 30 of that season with a new coach thru the next two President's Trophy seasons were the best team in hockey. I am not seeing a hole in the lineup for that kid to become a star.

Try again

 

[nbwingsfan]

I am not talking about Mantha. If Mantha is better, great. Vrana was not better in part because he didnt like where he sat in the pecking order. He was not going to be a featured player for years to come at best. There was not going to be a power play that fit any of his skills until Ovechkin, Backstrom, Carlson and Oshie left(and Kuznetsov)

For Forsberg, he was going to get 3rd line matchups and 3rd line ice time. Burakovsky scored 37 or so even strenth points playing 6 mins less than Forsberg in his best points season(I think he has 42 evp) but the 20+pp points he had wouldnt have happened. There is only so much ice time.

His rookie season with Nashville was Trotz first season in Washington and would have been his rookie season had he stayed. He would have beaten Burakovsky out for that spot in the lineup. The Caps from about game 30 of that season with a new coach thru the next two President's Trophy seasons were the best team in hockey. I am not seeing a hole in the lineup for that kid to become a star.

Try again

Literally all you did was repeat yourself. You asked for reasons as to why he could still become as good of a player with the Caps.

I gave you multiple.

You did nothing to prove any of it wrong other than repeating "less ice time and PP time".

That exact reason is what many Wings fans said might hold Mantha back from being better with the Caps, but you and other Caps fans screamed at us why that isnt true. Why the double standard?

That's not proving anything. That's just your opinion.

You're also saying he wouldn't beat out such star players as Johansson, Brower, Ward? Okay that's it for me.

Try again.

 

[txpd]

Literally all you did was repeat yourself. You asked for reasons as to why he could still become as good of a player with the Caps.

I gave you multiple.

You did nothing to prove any of it wrong other than repeating "less ice time and PP time".

That exact reason is what many Wings fans said might hold Mantha back from being better with the Caps, but you and other Caps fans screamed at us why that isnt true. Why the double standard?

That's not proving anything. That's just your opinion.

Try again.

How about this. There is no saying he even beats Burakovsky out for that spot in the lineup.

Me and other Caps fans? I am not talking about Mantha. I havent mentioned Mantha where Forsberg is concerned. Unless I forgot I have only commented about Mantha's contract.

I hope Vrana does well.

 

[nbwingsfan]

How about this. There is no saying he even beats Burakovsky out for that spot in the lineup.

Me and other Caps fans? I am not talking about Mantha. I havent mentioned Mantha where Forsberg is concerned. Unless I forgot I have only commented about Mantha's contract.

I hope Vrana does well.

If you really think Forsberg isnt as good as a Burakovsky/Brower/Johansson then there's no more point in talking

 

[StephenPeat]

You can't prove that lol.... is it possible? absolutely, but he could've exploded playing on a 2nd line with kuzy and they may have never traded for oshie had they had a young ELC forsberg rather than Erat. Who knows what could've been etc... He wouldn't have the exact same opportunity/ice time with wsh that he got in NSH..... but that doesn't mean he wouldn't have produced a ton and become a 60+ point force like he currently is playing with those higher quality teammates where he's not completely relied upon to drive the offense.

Serious question. In the history of hockey is all that anyone will ever remember that George McPhee traded Forsberg for Erat or that he was the builder for the Caps and Golden Knights.

 

[StephenPeat]

I was just thinking I know nothing about these guys so to me their names are meaningless. Just more prospects who likely won't reach their ceiling anytime soon. (Lemme tell ya. As a nyr fan I know all about prospects not even approaching expectations!)

I wonder how many read that, went,"oh that sounds good" yet similarly know nothing about those guys

If you don’t know Connor McMichael and Hendrix Lapierre you either don’t follow Team Canada, don’t follow Canadian Major Junior, or are just clueless. For a team that drafts as consistently late as the Capitals do (Vrana at 13th was their highest pick with Their Own pick in a generation) scoring two potentially game-breaking talents in the late 1st Round is amazing. The Rangers have put together a decent assemblage of talent, where per chance have they been drafting?

 

[StephenPeat]

Yep. As predicted, big win for Detroit Red Wings.

As I said, Vrana could even be better than Mantha, and he certainly has performed better for his team thus far - while being younger. Especially impressive considering how much weaker his supporting cast has been. Add in the picks and this is a straight robbery.

Which one of these players still has stats awaiting this season? Perhaps this chapter isn’t closed yet.

 

[StephenPeat]

Could be the rare win win type trade . The pics tip it in Wings favor but an extended playoff run/Mantha success could change the narrative quickly. Well done by Yzerman to extract value regardless.

Vrana’s next contract could also change the narrative even more quickly.

 

[StephenPeat]

I still think the Caps did the deal both to shed Panik's salary cap hit, and get the cost certainty of Mantha since his deal goes longer than Vrana

I mean you don’t have to think that, the Caps themselves basically said as much and Pierre Lebrun himself also basically reiterated it.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

If you don’t know Connor McMichael and Hendrix Lapierre you either don’t follow Team Canada, don’t follow Canadian Major Junior, or are just clueless. For a team that drafts as consistently late as the Capitals do (Vrana at 13th was their highest pick with Their Own pick in a generation) scoring two potentially game-breaking talents in the late 1st Round is amazing. The Rangers have put together a decent assemblage of talent, where per chance have they been drafting?

This might come as a shock to you but not everyone follows a league in a completely different country that also happens to be populated with a mix of minors and young adults who can't drink legally in the US yet. Some of us are dealing with work, relationships and hobbies that don't involve sitting on our asses all by ourselves and watching minors play ice hockey.

Anyone who knows shit about hockey knows even the best looking prospects aren't necessarily sure things

I dont give a shit if team canada becomes embroiled in a maple syrup scandal and never plays another game. No one in my life follows juniors so why would I? I follow a single NHL team and don't try to pretend like I know shit about the shit I don't follow.

Try walking up to a random person in the US and ask if they know who Nail Yakupov is. Then throw a fit when they say no because, "They must be clueless, he played so well in major junior that he was a 1st overall pick in the NHL!"

Actually f*** that. Ask them what a sarnia sting is. Major junior doesn't even exist in the minds of the vast majority of people on Earth, genius. What kind of life are you leading that none of this crossed your mind?

 

[nbwingsfan]

If you don’t know Connor McMichael and Hendrix Lapierre you either don’t follow Team Canada, don’t follow Canadian Major Junior, or are just clueless. For a team that drafts as consistently late as the Capitals do (Vrana at 13th was their highest pick with Their Own pick in a generation) scoring two potentially game-breaking talents in the late 1st Round is amazing. The Rangers have put together a decent assemblage of talent, where per chance have they been drafting?

Calling McMichael and Lapierre "amazing" at this point in time is incredibly ridiculous. Both players went pretty much exactly where they were expected to go in the draft.

Amazing is picking guys earlier than they were expected and having them blow up, or having them already contributing at the NHL level. Neither is true. Lapierre didnt even have a season that was very special at all.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

If you don’t know Connor McMichael and Hendrix Lapierre you either don’t follow Team Canada, don’t follow Canadian Major Junior, or are just clueless. For a team that drafts as consistently late as the Capitals do (Vrana at 13th was their highest pick with Their Own pick in a generation) scoring two potentially game-breaking talents in the late 1st Round is amazing. The Rangers have put together a decent assemblage of talent, where per chance have they been drafting?

McMichael and Lapierre are great prospects.

... Calling them "Potentially game-breaking talents", indicates that you either badly underestimate what a, "Game breaking talent", is, or you're just going full homer. That'd be like me calling Berggren, "Potentially game-breaking".

 

[StephenPeat]

This might come as a shock to you but not everyone follows a league in a completely different country that also happens to be populated with a mix of minors and young adults who can't drink legally in the US yet. Some of us are dealing with work, relationships and hobbies that don't involve sitting on our asses all by ourselves and watching minors play ice hockey.

Anyone who knows shit about hockey knows even the best looking prospects aren't necessarily sure things

I dont give a shit if team canada becomes embroiled in a maple syrup scandal and never plays another game. No one in my life follows juniors so why would I? I follow a single NHL team and don't try to pretend like I know shit about the shit I don't follow.

Try walking up to a random person in the US and ask if they know who Nail Yakupov is. Then throw a fit when they say no because, "They must be clueless, he played so well in major junior that he was a 1st overall pick in the NHL!"

Actually f*** that. Ask them what a sarnia sting is. Major junior doesn't even exist in the minds of the vast majority of people on Earth, genius. What kind of life are you leading that none of this crossed your mind?

Do you know what these Boards are. I’m not sure you have a grasp on where you are or what you’re doing.

 

[Random schmoe]

Assuming that the Caps re-sign Ovechkin, this deal let them have their entire top 6 and John Carlson signed for three more seasons after the current. (Assuming OV re-signs for about $10M annually, those seven players would account for around $51 Million each season. That's a lot, but it at least gives the team an idea of what other long term things it can do within the cap framework.)

For a team that constantly, year in and year out, spends up to the salary cap, that kind of cost certainty is HUGE.

That is a big part of why they did the deal. There is no way of knowing/projecting what Vrana's future contracts would be, so it would've made projecting their future much less stable.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Do you know what these Boards are. I’m not sure you have a grasp on where you are or what you’re doing.

Do YOU know?

It's obvious you're very lost and can't grasp anyone actually having a life outside of hockey. People only have a passing knowledge of prospects who aren't a a part of their own organization. That's normal.

Do you actually think everyone here knows every prospect from every single NHL organization? Do you really think everyone watches juniors?

I can't imagine leading a life where I'm that obsessed with team canada and major junior hockey that I can't even fathom anyone not being obsessed

The saddest part? Based on other people's comments you're wasting you're time bc you don't even have an accurate grasp of the abilities of the players you're talking about lol

 

[StephenPeat]

Do YOU know?

It's obvious you're very lost and can't grasp anyone actually having a life outside of hockey. People only have a passing knowledge of prospects who aren't a a part of their own organization. That's normal.

Do you actually think everyone here knows every prospect from every single NHL organization? Do you really think everyone watches juniors?

I can't imagine leading a life where I'm that obsessed with team canada and major junior hockey that I can't even fathom anyone not being obsessed

The saddest part? Based on other people's comments you're wasting you're time bc you don't even have an accurate grasp of the abilities of the players you're talking about lol

So you suggest that no one, including posters on these boards, knows anything about a majority of prospects in the League and then cite posters on this boards as a reference as to why I’m incorrect? You realize how stupid that is correct? I mean I can’t even make this stuff up, you basically just outed yourself. I don’t know what to say; keep on keepin on I guess. One of these days you’ll find something you know something about, you’ll forgive me if I don’t wait for that day.

 

[StephenPeat]

Calling McMichael and Lapierre "amazing" at this point in time is incredibly ridiculous. Both players went pretty much exactly where they were expected to go in the draft.

Amazing is picking guys earlier than they were expected and having them blow up, or having them already contributing at the NHL level. Neither is true. Lapierre didnt even have a season that was very special at all.

I don’t know, maybe read. Or at worst have someone read my response to you if you can’t handle it yourself.

I didn’t say either was amazing, I said that the Capitals getting two potential Top 10 picks late in the 1st Rd is amazing value for a team consistently picking in the final 10 picks of the 1st Round which is objectively true and undeniable.

Lapierre was widely considered a potential Top 10 pick prior to the draft and his injury concerns. Those seem to be a thing of the past now and both of these players have been mentioned by hockey minds slightly sharper than yourself as potential steals of their respective drafts.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I don’t know, maybe read. Or at worst have someone read my response to you if you can’t handle it yourself.

I didn’t say either was amazing, I said that the Capitals getting two potential Top 10 picks late in the 1st Rd is amazing value for a team consistently picking in the final 10 picks of the 1st Round which is objectively true and undeniable.

Lapierre was widely considered a potential Top 10 pick prior to the draft and his injury concerns. Those seem to be a thing of the past now and both of these players have been mentioned by hockey minds slightly sharper than yourself as potential steals of their respective drafts.

What a weird way to look at things... Lapierre actually went earlier than where he was projected on many lists. He didnt have any type of great season to change that ranking. Just because he was rated as a top 10 pick (by I think only Button at that) an entire year before his draft is irrelevant.

Care to explain how picking a guy where he was expected to be drafted is "an amazing job" by the Caps, especially considering he didnt even have that great of a season

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

So you suggest that no one, including posters on these boards, knows anything about a majority of prospects in the League .

Wait is THAT what you're whine fest is about? Something I didn't even say? Jesus christ I only WONDERED how many people similarly don't have a TOP TO BOTTOM knowledge of EVERY teams prospect pool.

Are youfreaking out bc you have no life and can't come to terms with that or you don't know how to read and attacked me for the stupidest reason

Maybe most people here have in depth knowledge of every single teams prospect pool bc they watch thousands of hours of KHL, SHL, Liiga, OHL, WHL and QMJHL. Or maybe that's completely unrealistic and you're throwing a tantrum over nothing? (I suspect you don't understand the difference bt this and what you just said. Poor guy)

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

You realize how stupid that is correct? I mean I can’t even make this stuff up, you basically just outed yourself. I don’t know what to say; keep on keepin on I guess. One of these days you’ll find something you know something about, you’ll forgive me if I don’t wait for that day.

Yo everyone.

I just called a bunch of my friends and told them I didn't know every single teams prospect pool. They all shamed me and told me I was the only one. They all knew every single NHL teams prospect pool top to bottom.

Can't believe I outed myself. I'm so embarrassed. I went to the supermarket, gas station and my job. Literally everyone knew but me!

LOL what a sad world you must live in Peat