On the contrary, I've wanted Rielly here since day one of camp, and I never thought Kadri was near ready. Morgan is very mature, Nazem was very immature, actually a great point of distinction. I hate blanket "let the kids play" or "don't ruin the kids", each kid is unique, there is no hard and fast rule. Morgan is mentally and physically mature, has a natural high hockey IQ. Kadri was insanely small, mentally juvenile and a hot dog who was a clear liability. It's not rocket science...
Wouldn't Ron Wilson have been way more successful with today's lineup?
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On the contrary, I've wanted Rielly here since day one of camp, and I never thought Kadri was near ready. Morgan is very mature, Nazem was very immature, actually a great point of distinction. I hate blanket "let the kids play" or "don't ruin the kids", each kid is unique, there is no hard and fast rule. Morgan is mentally and physically mature, has a natural high hockey IQ. Kadri was insanely small, mentally juvenile and a hot dog who was a clear liability. It's not rocket science...
zeke
The Dube Abides
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Citing what eakins does doesn't help your argument at all.
You, along with leafs' brass, were very wrong about Kadri. No shame in admitting it.
Kadri didn't magically become NHL ready the instant Burke and Wilson were dumped.
Agreed. Can you imagine what Carlyle would have done with Kadri at center turning over the puck and dogging the back check? People see what they want apparently, again, I bet any scout worth his salt would have agreed with sending him down to grow up. It worked too!
I was actually right. What a hoot! Carlyle would have DESTROYED Nazem, your view is delusional.
Kadri is not a PKer. If Kulemin were in the lineup he would be seeing zero PK time. But that's beside the point, because your argument was the fact that Kadri was better defensively than Grabovski a couple years ago because the latter didn't kill penalties. Neither does Kadri. And he didn't in his breakout season, either. THe problem here, you see, is that you're so far from knowing what you're talking about that you're getting your own arguments confused.
You seem to have some fundamental misunderstandings about hockey. "Sheltering" a player is not about who their linemates are. It's about who you put them on the ice against. And more specifically, who you don't. In his breakout year Kadri was given the easiest matchups possible by a coach obsessed with linematching. And yet you think that in previous seasons he should have been given the second line centre position. Okay there.
He was on the Leafs in 2011-12. For 21 games. In those 21 games he was pretty bad, even with sheltered minutes and PP opportunities. So your idea that he's so naturally talented that he required no coaching or improvement is kind of contrary to what actually happened.
zeke
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erm, Randy instantly installed Kadri as a full time centre and NHLer.
why are you trying to rewrite history.
No, he became NHL ready over 140 AHL games, 51 NHL games over six call-ups, and three full off-seasons and training camps.
No, he became NHL ready over 140 AHL games, 51 NHL games over six call-ups, and three full off-seasons and training camps.
Thank you. Geez, it's like that doesn't count.
Process.
I bet Kadri wouldn't even be with the Leafs organization if Carlyle was his coach straight off. He would have never played center under Randy Carlyle, the mere suggestion is frankly comical. He would have got altitude sickness from the press box.
zeke
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heh. you can "bet" whatever you want.
Kadri wasn't good enough to beat out the likes of Tim Brent and Colby Armstrong in Wilson's eyes.
Carlyle instantly installed Kadri as a full time NHL centre.
I don't need to "bet" anything, I know what happened already.
Kadri wasn't good enough to beat out the likes of Tim Brent and Colby Armstrong in Wilson's eyes.
Carlyle instantly installed Kadri as a full time NHL centre.
I don't need to "bet" anything, I know what happened already.
Suntouchable13
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Crispy Crust
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The Winter Soldier
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If you watched those games, and the context of why those players fought, you would know the impact they had last year.
However, We can always go back to being the team that was embarrassingly bullied and having our star players run at when we were losing.
Can you give examples of how Carlyle crucifies Kadri? I don't recall Carlyle calling out players individually and when he does speak specifically about a player, I don't recall hearing anything so bad that I would consider it 'crucifying'.
Guy Boucher
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- Oct 22, 2008
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The greatest reformation that Carlyle performed on the Leafs was when he instantly realized that turning Kadri into a winger was asinine.
If he didn't put Kadri in his natural position and rely on him last season, the leafs would not have made the playoffs.
If he didn't put Kadri in his natural position and rely on him last season, the leafs would not have made the playoffs.[/QUOTE]
That is a really cocky statement to make No doubt Kadri played solid (well most of the season) but to say he was the difference between us making and missing the playoffs I think is absurd but to each their own. I feel goaltending and a strong improvement on the penalty kill are the two main reasons last year we made it in, had we had even average goaltending I don't think we sniff the playoffs last year.
That is a really cocky statement to make
No doubt Kadri played solid (well most of the season) but to say he was the difference between us making and missing the playoffs I think is absurd but to each their own. I feel goaltending and a strong improvement on the penalty kill are the two main reasons last year we made it in, had we had even average goaltending I don't think we sniff the playoffs last year.That is a really cocky statement to make
Last year was a mixed bag but I think people get too caught up trying to credit one theory over the other. Leafs had some games where they bagged points off the back of their offense when goaltending let in some not so great goals against. They had their fair share of games where goaltending either won them the game or kept them in long enough to squeek out a win. Then there were games where regardless of shots against, the team did a respectable job of keeping pucks to the perimeter and clearing their crease so that it severely limited the quality of shots taken by the opponent (the shutout against Ottawa is the example that stands out the most to me because Ottawa had 40+ shots on net that night and yet they barely looked threatening at any point in that game).
Reimer fell into an opportunity with the Leafs and he's been great from the start. He's had his weaknesses but they didn't suddenly disappear once Carlyle came to town. He also didn't suddenly become 10x better with Carlyle in town. Reimer has more or less been consistent for the team...it's the rest of the team that struggled with consistency that led to them missing playoffs. I don't buy into the theory that Carlyle got lucky with the goaltending and it's the only reason why Leafs made playoffs. Reimer wasn't considerably different so something else had to have made an impact.
My theory is one you've already mentioned - I think special teams are the biggest difference. Under Carlyle, the team's PP gives them a realistic opportunity to get back into games and their PK gives them a realistic opportunity to stay in games.
those were "Ron Wilson's" teams just like these are Randy Carlyle's teams. Randy tookover and didnt even have a full training camp and made the playoffs. They got there because of great special teams, physical play and good goaltending. Wilsons teams were horrible in all those catagories. Were 9 games and 6-3 and doing welll in all those catagories again. No panic here. 73 games left.
ITM
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It presumes that a number of Carlyle innovations would have continued -- namely, the progression of Kadri and Kessel.
Who can say whether other assets (JVR, Franson, McClement) wouldn't have likewise wilted under Wilson's style.
Carlyle has been the kind of attention to detail, firm hand, consistent message kind of coach this club needed.
And more's the point, he seems to weather (media) distraction in a way that doesn't ripple down onto the practice rink.
No...I don't wonder what might have been with this club and Wilson.
Burke on the other hand is never far from mind though.
Who can say whether other assets (JVR, Franson, McClement) wouldn't have likewise wilted under Wilson's style.
Carlyle has been the kind of attention to detail, firm hand, consistent message kind of coach this club needed.
And more's the point, he seems to weather (media) distraction in a way that doesn't ripple down onto the practice rink.
No...I don't wonder what might have been with this club and Wilson.
Burke on the other hand is never far from mind though.
It was said by many that Wilson was the right coach at the wrong time. He himself alluded to the fact that he was setting the stage and would be gone by the time the team was ready to compete.
I know I'm in the minority in this thought, but I think Wilson has been given less credit than he should be. I also believe Wilson would have been able to have success with this team in its current format.
EDIT: Right coach at the wrong time.
I know I'm in the minority in this thought, but I think Wilson has been given less credit than he should be. I also believe Wilson would have been able to have success with this team in its current format.
EDIT: Right coach at the wrong time.
Last edited:
Morguee
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- Jan 22, 2010
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You could have just said that in a media scrum, you didn't have to make a new account here Randy.
...welcome to the Boards.
LOL, if 4 years ain't a chance I don't know what is. He failed to get us a franchise draft pick or get us in the playoffs. When he got a star potential Center in Kadri what did he do, straight out bash him in the media, as a rookie not even played an NHL reg season game. Using the excuse, "He's got nasty habits" to send the kid back to junior without even a look for 9 games, when he impressed so many in preseason.
Whatever I'm just glad a Wilson is gone,
hotpaws
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- Nov 21, 2009
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Who are these many people that said he was the right coach at the wrong time ?
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