Would You Watch an OHL Team in Buffalo?

[is the answer jesus]

Nobody really cares about conference championships.... It's not a big time college hockey program who is going to have National Prominence.

If you had a College Hockey Team that was equivalent to the Syracuse Basketball team then you'd have no problems filling an arena.

As long as the OHL team was competitive year in year out (for the most part) it would have no problems carving a substantial fan base in Buffalo.

Exactly. It's great that Canisius has won conference championships, but it's equivalent to the UB football team winning the MAC confrence. Does anyone really think they'd matchup against teams in the SEC or Pac 12. Not a chance. Just like Canisius can't matchup with Michigan, BU, BC, North Dakota, Providence, etc. They're a pretty insignificant team in division 1.

 

[Dex]

Like I said in my other post - I'd love to see a junior team here but see that attendance at the local college games isn't so great.....I guess I have to expose my ignorance then.

I've been to two junior games in my life - one in Quebec City and one in Ottawa. Both were played in front of huge crowds, were professional in every aspect and really entertaining.

I've never been to a college game. But I've been told that the quality of play is generally a notch up from junior because of the age difference.

1. Is that generally true, sometimes, usually - except when there's a McDavid on your team?

2. If it is true to any extent, then why would college games not be entertaining.

3. I understand Canisius and Niagara are small time - but they are D1. Don't they also play some big time games as well?

4. What's the difference between a D1 team like Canisius and a mediocre/poor junior team insofar as entertainment and drawing power are concerned.

Like I said in my other post - I'd love to see a junior team here but see that attendance at the local college games isn't so great.....

 

[krt88]

years and years ago, I used to go to NF to watch the old Niagara Falls Flyers. There is nothing like the OHL. Even though I live in NC, I would make a couple trips back to WNY if Buffalo had an OHL team. Would definitely make my way up every Christmas and get tickets to a game or two. CHL hockey is the most entertaining hockey in the world.

I almost landed a job in Kennewich, Washington a few years back and had I done that, season tickets to the Tri-City Americans would have been essential.

I think to pull off an OHL team you would need a smaller arena. You could try it out at the First Niagara Center but I think a 6/8k arena would be best. Not sure where that would come from, and I'm not sure the Sabres would want to cut into the college market place. Nevertheless, I still it would be awesome.

 

[Revelate]

After we draft McDavid, Pegula is going to buy the Otters and move all of Connor's friends up to Buffalo.

 

[joshjull]

Exactly. It's great that Canisius has won conference championships, but it's equivalent to the UB football team winning the MAC confrence. Does anyone really think they'd matchup against teams in the SEC or Pac 12. Not a chance. Just like Canisius can't matchup with Michigan, BU, BC, North Dakota, Providence, etc. They're a pretty insignificant team in division 1.

Its not about the level of Canisius hockey or any of the local college teams. Its about the local sports dynamic. Locally very few fans really care about anything beyond the Bills and Sabres. Very little is covered locally beyond the Bills and Sabres outside of national sports stories. Thats why the only sporting events that draw outside of the Bills and Sabres are the NCAA events and some IIHF events. But even the IIHF events don't draw that much outside of a few games like the Team Canada games and Team USA men's games

You need to understand that the overwhelming majority of local sports fans and even hockey fans couldn't care less about the OHL and know next to nothing about it. FAR less than they know about Canisius or any other local college teams. I fail to see how that type of fan base is going to suddenly start paying money to put 4-6k people in the seats 30+ times a year. Its a fantasy.

This site is not representative of the Buffalo fan base at large. And even on here there are large segments of fans that don't follow junior hockey. They just look for updates on Sabre prospects.

 

[Beerz]

Its not about the level of Canisius hockey or any of the local college teams. Its about the local sports dynamic. Locally very few fans really care about anything beyond the Bills and Sabres. Very little is covered locally beyond the Bills and Sabres outside of national sports stories. Thats why the only sporting events that draw outside of the Bills and Sabres are the NCAA events and some IIHF events. But event the IIHF events don't draw that much outside of a few games like the Team Canada games and Team USA men's games

You need to understand that the overwhelming majority of local sports fans and even hockey fans couldn't care less about the OHL and know next to nothing about it. FAR less than they know about Canisius or any other local college teams. I fail to see how that type of fan base is going to suddenly start paying money to put 4-6k people in the seats 30+ times a year. Its a fantasy.

You're really basing this on nothing.

If Buffalo can put 8k in the seats for minor league baseball... or 12-15K in the seats for the Bandits ... it's not going to be a hard sell to put 5k in the seats for an OHL game.

 

[joshjull]

If Buffalo can put 8k in the seats for minor league baseball... or 12-15K in the seats for the Bandits ... it's not going to be a hard sell to put 5k in the seats for an OHL game.

The Bisons compete with no other sports team. They own the summer. They also run about a million promotional events with their games to sell tickets. I don't like baseball at all and I've been to a game here and there because of the event not the baseball. The Bandits play something like 9 home games and all of them are on the weekends. They are also the only pro lacrosse team in a area that loves lacrosse. The fix are relatively cheap. They also have games that attract fans because they are events with music blaring an MC, etc.


Neither of these teams situations has any relevance to whether or not a junior team would work here.

You're really basing this on nothing.

I'm basing it on understanding the local sports scene and the economics of this area.

For example, who is going to support this team financially? Or another way to put it, where are the season ticket holders coming from? You do realize season tickets in the OHL run from the mid 400s to almost 800 per ticket. Who is going to spend roughly 900 -1600 dollars on two season tickets? I can't imagine there is a large group of fans in Buffalo that love OHL so much that they've been waiting to put down that kind of coin for tickets. Certainly not enough to support the idea of 5k fans at every game. Not to mention hockey fans like that in Buffalo are highly likely invested in Sabres tickets in sue form or another (fully season/splitting season or a 10pack, etc)

That also brings up the fact that these teams play weeknights. Something thats been an issue at times for the Sabres. That and the opponent. So much so that variable pricing was born. So who is going to go on a Tuesday to watch a junior game with a crappy visiting opponent? A game where the single game tickets run from 20-35 dollars? thats a 40-70 dollar night.

I fail to see this area forking over that kind of money to support a local OHL team. Maybe you thought the prices were cheaper?

The local community will spend money on the Bills and Sabres. The will spend money on major sports events we host. But I fail to see the financial capability or desire to support a junior team. Given that the interest level isn't likely to be high to begin with and that most of the types of fans that might be interested probably have money tied up in the Sabres in some way.

Also last year there were only 3 teams in the OHL that averaged 5k or more fans and the league average was 4,041. http://www.hockeyattendance.com/league/ohl/2013/?sort=avg_att Twelve of the 20 teams had averaged less than 3800 fans and seven averaged 3000 or less.

I find it hard to believe we would have an interest level that outstrips its home base.

 

[Beerz]

The Bisons compete with no other sports team. They own the summer. They also run about a million promotional events with their games to sell tickets. I don't like baseball at all and I've been to a game here and there because of the event not the baseball. The Bandits play something like 9 home games and all of them are on the weekends. They are also the only pro lacrosse team in a area that loves lacrosse. The fix are relatively cheap. They also have games that attract fans because they are events with music blaring an MC, etc.


Neither of these teams situations has any relevance to whether or not a junior team would work here.



I'm basing it on understanding the local sports scene and the economics of this area.

For example, who is going to support this team financially? Or another way to put it, where are the season ticket holders coming from? You do realize season tickets in the OHL run from the mid 400s to almost 800 per ticket. Who is going to spend roughly 900 -1600 dollars on two season tickets? I can't imagine there is a large group of fans in Buffalo that love OHL so much that they've been waiting to put down that kind of coin for tickets. Certainly not enough to support the idea of 5k fans at every game. Not to mention hockey fans like that in Buffalo are highly likely invested in Sabres tickets in sue form or another (fully season/splitting season or a 10pack, etc)

That also brings up the fact that these teams play weeknights. Something thats been an issue at times for the Sabres. That and the opponent. So much so that variable pricing was born. So who is going to go on a Tuesday to watch a junior game with a crappy visiting opponent? A game where the single game tickets run from 20-35 dollars? thats a 40-70 dollar night.

I fail to see this area forking over that kind of money to support a local OHL team. Maybe you thought the prices were cheaper?

The local community will spend money on the Bills and Sabres. The will spend money on major sports events we host. But I fail to see the financial capability or desire to support a junior team. Given that the interest level isn't likely to be high to begin with and that most of the types of fans that might be interested probably have money tied up in the Sabres in some way.

Also last year there were only 3 teams in the OHL that averaged 5k or more fans and the league average was 4,041. http://www.hockeyattendance.com/league/ohl/2013/?sort=avg_att Twelve of the 20 teams had averaged less than 3800 fans and seven averaged 3000 or less.

I find it hard to believe we would have an interest level that outstrips its home base.

I think you're underestimating Buffalo and surrounding region. The economics of it isn't a concern. There would be plenty of people who could afford the price of tickets.

You don't have to be a fan of the OHL before the team arrives...hell you don't have to be a fan of hockey. My sister isn't exactly a Sport nut ..had never watched hockey before but got free tickets to a local team that is part of a no name league... she's now a season ticket holder. Just because the people you know don't talk or care about the OHL doesn't mean they and others wouldn't start to talk or care about the OHL if they had a team in town.

3,800-5000 .. whatever. A team most definitely could be supported here. Especially a Pegula owned team that has a vast marketing and corporate sponsonship base already.

 

[Irving Zisman]

I think JJ's right. As much as I'd like to say that an OHL team would work, the competition of other winter events, amount of games played and pricing would kill any chance of success.

Junior hockey is so engrained in Canadian culture; it's about as beloved and brings the same kind of passion that D-1 college football and basketball do.

I'm sure almost all of us on here would support an OHL team like crazy, but Bob Powalski in Cheektowaga and John and Jane Suburbia probably wouldn't "get it," diehard Sabres fans or not.

 

[Chainshot]

I would go, but then again I used to have tickets for the Thunder back in the pre-Otter days and didn't think anything about driving up to Guelph, Kitchener, or London to catch a game. Would the rest of WNY? I don't think so. But just my opinion. I can't see them drawing much from the other side of the border either -- the 'Dogs have a new arena and are an easy ride for folks from the Falls and Ft Erie isn't particularly large.

 

[is the answer jesus]

I'm not an expert on sports marketing but a large part of me agrees with Beerz. People go to Bandits and Bisons games by the thousands for whatever reasons (it's the summer, it's on weekends, etc). I think this is a great hockey town and not just because we support the sabres. I think a lot of people went to the Erie game this year and got a taste of just how good OHL hockey can be (I know the McDavid draw was a large part of it), the Amerks draw fairly well, and as was stated the hockey tournaments have been very sucessful here. To me it speaks to a market that has a geniune interest in the game of hockey. Quite simply I think your underestimating the market Josh. For me it would be a more affordable alternative to the Sabres while giving me a better brand of hockey than Canisius can. I'd like to think there are at least a few thousand people that think along the same lines in an area of over 2 million people (that's just wny and doesn't account for any of our neighbors to the north who might come down for games).

 

[Moncton man]

I think JJ's right. As much as I'd like to say that an OHL team would work, the competition of other winter events, amount of games played and pricing would kill any chance of success.

Junior hockey is so engrained in Canadian culture; it's about as beloved and brings the same kind of passion that D-1 college football and basketball do.

London has a facility that holds 9000 or so they fill it up but that's since the Hunters bought the team and made it very competitive.

Other places most arenas are around 5000 seats. Not every team struggles to fill them but there are issues.

Belleville Bulls are about to move to Hamilton but that city is home to two past Major Junior failures.

Toronto area has had a team in downtown (St. Michaels Majors), one in Mississauga, one in Brampton and one in Oshawa. Really only the Oshawa team has thrived. Mississauga lost their team to Niagara but then the downtown team relocated to Mississauga. Brampton recently moved to North Bay.

I think those fans in cities where they have major franchise draws see less support for the junior teams than where those teams are really the only team in town.

Would like to see it work but I think JJ is right and that the support won't be there in Buffalo.

 

[My Cozen Dylan]

For example, who is going to support this team financially? Or another way to put it, where are the season ticket holders coming from? You do realize season tickets in the OHL run from the mid 400s to almost 800 per ticket. Who is going to spend roughly 900 -1600 dollars on two season tickets?

I can think of about 3,000 people on a certain waiting list that would be a good place to start...

 

[Husko]

How about a USHL team? Could they play in harbor center?

 

[My Cozen Dylan]

How about a USHL team? Could they play in harbor center?

Yuck. Why bother at that point?

 

[Husko]

Yuck. Why bother at that point?

It's a top feeder league into NCAA hockey, no? With NCAA hockey growing stronger every year, and Canisius also playing in the harbor center, could be pretty cool. Imagine a Buffalo kid playing for the Buffalo USHL team, then Canisius, then the Sabres. Ultimate Buffalo story

 

[VaporTrail]

Yes I would watch and follow them....For me it would be easier to follow the OHL, as I really don't right now...but would for sure if we got a team.

 

[dotcommunism]

How about a USHL team? Could they play in harbor center?

Doubt that USHL is viable due to travel. The closest USHL team is Youngstown and the league is mostly west of Indiana http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/United_States_Hockey_League_locations.svg

 

[CanadaBacon]

Brampton/Mississauga were about a 5 min drive from each other. Toronto/Mississauga were about 30km if that. Niagara/Hamilton will be about 40-50Km? Some markets can pulled crowds in junior hockey, most cannot. 2k, maybe 3k I would guess.

 

[PopeInTheWoods]

I'd love to say yes I'd watch, but honestly I haven't even been to an Amerks game this season. And they're only 15 minutes away.

 

[LaxSabre]

......

 

[1972]

Brampton/Mississauga were about a 5 min drive from each other. Toronto/Mississauga were about 30km if that. Niagara/Hamilton will be about 40-50Km? Some markets can pulled crowds in junior hockey, most cannot. 2k, maybe 3k I would guess.

Toronto with a billion people cannot support their OHL teams, basically every OHL team in the GTA fails because of a lack of interest.

OHL works really well in small cities, places like St. Catharines, London, Kitchener, Guelph, Owen Sound, and Sudbury where there is no other professional teams. The team becomes part of the community and everyone is talking about them, people support the local team and feel apart of it. That isn't always going to happen in big cities (Although it seems to work in Calgary, Edmonton and Vancouver)

I personally think OHL in Buffalo would not work long term, right now there would be a big interest because of the Sabres, but once the team gets good I think that interest would greatly diminish.

I was an Ice Dogs season ticket holder from 2007 to 2012, people can talk like they will go and support the team on a nightly basis and think it's always going to be fun but the truth is you get sick of going to 34 games over a 6 month period. Especially when a good portion of those games will be against the same teams without star players on them. No question Buffalo is going to have a full rink if Connor McDavid comes to town, but what about a friday night against Sudbury, or a Thursday night against Flint? Casual fans probably are not paying to see those games.