Would you trade Karlsson for Malkin?

[guyzeur]

I'd argue pre-Cooke Karlsson was the best player in the world and one of, if not the best defensemen in NHL history. The way he was controlling games was dominance beyond anything anyone else had done. That being said, I seriously doubt he ever gets back to that level.

same here except for last sentence.

Just offensively speaking, on his Norris year EK had 50% more points than the 2nd defenseman.

No forwards accomplish that feat recently.

 

[NyQuil]

same here except for last sentence.

Just offensively speaking, on his Norris year EK had 50% more points than the 2nd defenseman.

No forwards accomplish that feat recently.

Yeah, there were some funny circumstances that year in terms of his competition.

It ended up being Campbell in 2nd due to injuries, no?

The most impressive feat in my mind is how close he was to Spezza in scoring, and is leading again this year.

Green was 4th on his team in scoring IIRC.

 

[sens83]

Keep Karlsson, open the pocket books and get some more players like MacArthur, once we start to win consistently, go after a big target. But Karlsson is THE key player for this team going forward.

 

[guyzeur]

Yeah, there were some funny circumstances that year in terms of his competition.

It ended up being Campbell in 2nd due to injuries, no?

The most impressive feat in my mind is how close he was to Spezza in scoring, and is leading again this year.

Green was 4th on his team in scoring IIRC.

But if Crosby would have had a 150pts season and the 2nd forward just 100, people would NOT try to find excuses for Crosby because it is expected of him to be that much better.

Career Average PPG - Forwards
Sidney Crosby 1.407
Evgeni Malkin 1.224
Alexander Ovechkin 1.212
Jaromír Jágr 1.198
Teemu Selänne 1.011
Jason Spezza 1.002

Career Average PPG - Defensemans

Erik Karlson 0.746
Sergei Gonchar 0.645
Mike Green 0.634
Dan Boyle 0.588
Andrei Markov 0.579
Mark Streit 0.576

I believe EK's average will go up (85-90%). Remove last year injury and he would probably be top 5 in pts this year

 

[stepdad gaary]

holy ****

 

[Benjamin]

holy ****

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Malkin cant impact or control a game like Karlsson.

Yea not like Malkin carried the Pittsburgh Penguins during the Stanley Cup run and got the Conn Smythe trophy or anything.

 

[Benjamin]

Yea not like Malkin carried the Pittsburgh Penguins during the Stanley Cup run and got the Conn Smythe trophy or anything.

He didn't carry Pittsburgh at all. No player can carry a team to a Stanley Cup championship. He deserved the Conn Smythe but its not like he carried the current Sabres to a Stanley Cup.

Im not saying Malkin doesn't have a massive impact or cant control a game. Im saying he just not as good as Karlsson at it.

 

[NyQuil]

I don't think it's an insult to be compared with Malkin.

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

He didn't carry Pittsburgh at all. No player can carry a team to a Stanley Cup championship. He deserved the Conn Smythe but its not like he carried the current Sabres to a Stanley Cup.

Im not saying Malkin doesn't have a massive impact or cant control a game. Im saying he just not as good as Karlsson at it.

Ummm...he beat Carolina on his own, pretty much.
He had 36 post-season points, which was the most since Gretzky's 40 in the day.
Twelve multi-point games in the playoffs, including six in a row.

"In the playoffs, Malkin had two goals and six assists in six games against the Flyers, and two goals and eight assists in the grueling seven-game series against Washington in which the Penguins rallied from a 2-0 deficit, just as they did against Detroit. He had a monster conference finals against Carolina with six goals and three assists in four games."

Malkin was insane that year.

I don't think it's an insult to be compared with Malkin.

Of course not, but Karlsson has never carried his team to a Cup finals or won a Conn Smythe.
Could still well happen, of course, but until then...he needs to be compared to peers that have gotten to the second round of the playoffs and been dominant in that frame.

 

[Benjamin]

Ummm...he beat Carolina on his own, pretty much.
He had 36 post-season points, which was the most since Gretzky's 40 in the day.
Twelve multi-point games in the playoffs, including six in a row.

"In the playoffs, Malkin had two goals and six assists in six games against the Flyers, and two goals and eight assists in the grueling seven-game series against Washington in which the Penguins rallied from a 2-0 deficit, just as they did against Detroit. He had a monster conference finals against Carolina with six goals and three assists in four games."

Malkin was insane that year.



Of course not, but Karlsson has never carried his team to a Cup finals or won a Conn Smythe.
Could still well happen, of course, but until then...he needs to be compared to peers that have gotten to the second round of the playoffs and been dominant in that frame.

And Crosby had 31 points and 1 more goal than Malkin.

 

[guyzeur]

Yeah, there were some funny circumstances that year in terms of his competition.

It ended up being Campbell in 2nd due to injuries, no?

The most impressive feat in my mind is how close he was to Spezza in scoring, and is leading again this year.

Green was 4th on his team in scoring IIRC.

Name | GP | PTS
Erik Karlsson | 81 | 78
Dustin Byfuglien | 66 | 53
Brian Campbell | 82 | 53
Zdeno Chara | 79 | 52
Alex Pietrangelo | 81 | 51
Shea Weber | 78 | 49
Alexander Edler | 82 | 49
Dan Boyle | 81 | 48
Mark Streit | 82 | 47
Dennis Wideman | 82 | 46

 

[NyQuil]

Name | GP | PTS
Erik Karlsson | 81 | 78
Dustin Byfuglien | 66 | 53
Brian Campbell | 82 | 53
Zdeno Chara | 79 | 52
Alex Pietrangelo | 81 | 51
Shea Weber | 78 | 49
Alexander Edler | 82 | 49
Dan Boyle | 81 | 48
Mark Streit | 82 | 47
Dennis Wideman | 82 | 46

Right, it was Letang and Buff.

 

[NyQuil]

Of course not, but Karlsson has never carried his team to a Cup finals or won a Conn Smythe.

Which is what I said.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Man, for a guy who blindly defends and cheers for Spezza, you sure
Love to do the opposite for a player playing way better than him. The bit where you mention bias is hilarious considering your post history.

He's pretty consistent. Pitchforks come out pretty much every time anyone on the team gets more love than #19.

Craig Button claimed Karlsson up and away the best defender, he made videos on TSN called "Who's number 2?" cause Karlsson was number 1(defense) compared him to crosby's impact.

Go search this board for what carolina's ass. manager said.

Bob Mac called karlsson most exciting and arguably best player in the game. I'm missing a couple more. Pierre McGuire just said today he's the best at the Olympics(or one of the best?)

Bro's he said Ceci will be our number 1 in the near future.

Malkin has delivered in the playoffs.

Karlsson has yet to do so.

He may, sure, but until he does, you'll always wonder whether his style will translate. Obviously he hasn't had the opportunity in his prime yet, but you have to give Malkin the nod with the Conn Smythe and the other hardware.

Yes, Malkin has done much more in the playoffs... but... Karlsson has been our best player in the playoffs against Pitts(With cullen) and NYR. It's not like Karlsson hasn't showed up.. Malkin has played with vastly superior teams and Crosby.

If Ottawa had a threat other than Karlsson, it will be muchhh easier for him to work his magic without all the pressure solely on him.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Lmao, yo, it's absolutely hilarious.

Claims he is a Sens fan, asks for proof of evidence about Karlsson's play last year.

Craig Button claimed Karlsson up and away the best defender, he made videos on TSN called "Who's number 2?" cause Karlsson was number 1(defense) compared him to crosby's impact.

Go search this board for what carolina ass manager said.

Bob Mac called karlsson most exciting and arguably best player in the game. I'm missing a couple more. Pierre McGuire just said today he's the best at the Olympics(or one of the best?)

Bro's he said Ceci will be our number 1 in the near future.



Yes, Malkin has done much more in the playoffs... but... Karlsson has been our best player in the playoffs against Pitts(With cullen) and NYR. It's not like Karlsson hasn't showed up.. Malkin has played with vastly superior teams and Crosby.

If Ottawa had a threat other than Karlsson, it will be muchhh easier for him to work his magic without all the pressure solely on him.

lol craig button.
Im not sure what the argument is here... is karlsson better than malkin? that's sort of debateable kinda not really.
Is karlsson better than Crosby? how can anyone debate for that. results. Yea karlsson blew every other defencman out of the water with points. but he wasn't even the best defenseman at defending in his Norris Year. Crosby is above generational. malkin stamkos ovechkin karlsson (the few games before he got hurt) played like those 3 other guys, theres no knowing if he would have played like that consistently are generational talents, Crosby is above that. And some people are saying karlsson is the best in the game because of his 12/13 form...the guy played 17 games....

 

[HavlatMach9]

^ if you cut down karlsson's play into strictly offense and defense, you're missing 95% of the ice where he's a magician

 

[Benjamin]

lol craig button.

He's smarter than anyone on HF.

 

[NyQuil]

Yes, Malkin has done much more in the playoffs... but... Karlsson has been our best player in the playoffs against Pitts(With cullen) and NYR. It's not like Karlsson hasn't showed up.. Malkin has played with vastly superior teams and Crosby.

If Ottawa had a threat other than Karlsson, it will be muchhh easier for him to work his magic without all the pressure solely on him.

I agree with all of this.

Karlsson is certainly the most interesting and enjoyable player to watch in the league.

As a ticket-holder, he's fun to watch.

 

[guyzeur]

lol craig button.
Im not sure what the argument is here... is karlsson better than malkin? that's sort of debateable kinda not really.
Is karlsson better than Crosby? how can anyone debate for that. results. Yea karlsson blew every other defencman out of the water with points. but he wasn't even the best defenseman at defending in his Norris Year. Crosby is above generational. malkin stamkos ovechkin karlsson (the few games before he got hurt) played like those 3 other guys, theres no knowing if he would have played like that consistently are generational talents, Crosby is above that. And some people are saying karlsson is the best in the game because of his 12/13 form...the guy played 17 games....

You see Button and you lol while missing all the other comments including Orr, Doughty, Coffey, St-Louis and those are the tip of the iceberg.

So Crosby is now above generational, like Saiyan, Super Saiyan, ??? LOL right back at you.

 

[Germz]

The most impressive feat in my mind is how close he was to Spezza in scoring, and is leading again this year.

Green was 4th on his team in scoring IIRC.

Yeah.

2011-12 Karlsson led the defenseman scoring race by 25 points, which is a remarkable margin. He was tied for 10th in overall league scoring, and only one of his teammates finished in the top-50 in league scoring (Spezza, 4th with 84 pts). That's pretty amazing. And obviously, he is on pace to lead our team in scoring this season.

By contrast, in 2008-09, Mike Green led defensive scoring by 9 points, finished 29th in overall league scoring, and had 3 teammates finish in the top-50 in league scoring (Ovechkin, 2nd with 103 points; Backstrom, 10th with 88 points; Semin, 19th with 79 points).

In 2009-10, Green led defensive scoring by 7 points, finished 21st in overall league scoring, and again had 3 teammates finish in the top-50 in league scoring (Ovechkin, 3rd with 109 points; Backstrom, 4th with 101 points; Semin, 13th with 84 points).

Green's most impressive achievement was his 31-goal season. That will be hard to match. In all other ways, I think Karlsson's 2011-12 season was much more impressive than anything Green has accomplished.

 

[Novak Djokovic]

If we're going to use Karlsson's 17 game sample, then we better use Crosby's 41 game sample where he scored 32 goals and 66 points. There's no point in comparing Karlsson's absolute best when (a) he's not close to that level right now (b) you're not doing the same to the guy you're comparing him to.

As for Malkin, he is ALSO the better player. Hell, Stamkos is a better player than Karlsson too. Right now, his defensive game just isn't there to be in the conversation amongst those players. He's not even the best defenseman in the league currently. Can he be? Absolutely. I have seen 90% of his games in the NHL, and I think he has the ability to do something special. He's a unique player who I would love to have as a Senator for the rest of his career.

But...my god, this forum is a little crazy.... and this is someone who has consistently defended Karlsson on the main board (like seriously, half of my posts are dedicated to that... although not as much as MoO or Sureves, haha).

EDIT: In terms of entertainment value, he's up there though... top 3 easily in my opinion.

P.S. If you don't think you're being biased, see the results here: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=96717

Ignore the comments there though because some people clearly haven't seen a lot of EK, but still, I don't the answer is wrong... just the justification. eg. "Karlsson plays no defense" or that they are both equal defensively.

I'm not going to be popular here for speaking the truth, but it is what it is.

 

[HavlatMach9]

it depends on whether it was stretch that wouldn't last, or if it was a stretch that would have been representative of the rest of his season if not for his injury.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

You see Button and you lol while missing all the other comments including Orr, Doughty, Coffey, St-Louis and those are the tip of the iceberg.

So Crosby is now above generational, like Saiyan, Super Saiyan, ??? LOL right back at you.

Maybe I just find craig button funny. And no. Thinking more super saiyen 4 gogeta. Its just karlsson my goodness

 

[Burrowsaurus]

If I wanted to build a dynasty. The player I'm building around is the guarenteed PPG+ complete two way natural leader center. Not the (most of the time) defensively unreliable offensive defensman. Yeah karlsson played amazing for 17 games. That's not enough to convince me he's better than Crosby.