Would you support trading to acquire Lafreniere this off-season?

[Sand94]

Yea, I'm not denying he's an amazing player, and the reason I asked the last name question is because I know the Quebecker factor can cloud judgement, mine included, but you say it doesn't and that's fine. I just don't know if trading all of them for Alexis is really the way to go. I'm not saying it would be a bad move, again, I'm just saying I wouldn't be comfortable pulling the trigger on a trade like that if I was GM.

I get that you're hesitant, however fast forward 4-5 years. We didn't make the trade. We have Caufield on the 2nd line putting up 25-30 goals and 50 points, not producing in the playoffs. We have Romanov playing 2nd pairing, hardly producing and having the occasional brain fart. We have KK/Suzuki playing on the top line yet only mustering up 65 points in a good season. Meanwhile you turn on Sportscenter and you watch highlight after highlight of Lafreniere lighting up the league, scoring over 100 points, carrying his team, selling jerseys, inspiring kids and simply being a franchise cornerstone.

Now go try and trade for him. Better yet, wait till his second shot at Free agency when he's 28 and see if he wants to play here now.... lol

 

[bobholly39]

Even if Bergevin could pull off such a trade at the end of the day he's still a terrible GM who will never be able to build a winning team. So in that scenario I'd rather we not get Laffy because having another 5-10 years of Bergevin guarantees that we will have limited success at best. The faster we get rid of Bergevin the faster we can actually build a winning team.

And for the record I think Bergevin's job is pretty safe, if we win the lottery it will be even safer. The media will talk about how this was all part of the build through the draft plan and so Bergevin deserves credit.

Makes sense. I don't know. I know a ton of people hate Bergevin - and if the choice is keep him and also get Lafreniere or lose both - many would forego both.
I was looking at it more from a Habs perspective - than from what fans would want. They either allow him to do the trade and keep Bergevin - or don't allow him to do the trade to begin with.

Petry would basically bring in a first and a A prospect in a trade, if not more.
Romanov is one of the best prospect in the world

Thats basically 3 first rounders right there, add in the top 10 pick this year and 3 2nd and Im not sure how you call it quality.

And I don't know why you mention the 4th or 5th rounders.

In 2012 it was rumored NYI offered their whole draft for Yakupov, Edmonton considered it heavily.

Let alone the fact that Crosby >>>>>>>>>>>> Lafreniere at the draft.

Petry is worth a first and a prospect sure - but he's a UFA next year. His value at the draft or off-season probably still high - i'd argue it would have been higher at the TDL though. If Detroit's end goal is to get the 1st round pick and prospect - they'd prefer that directly, to Petry.

We vastly disagree on Romanov. To me he looks like maybe a top 4d, mostly defensive. Not sure he'll be anywhere as good as any of the dozen or so high profile D's that came into the league the past few seasons (Hughes, Chabot, Makar, Heiska, etc etc). Maybe i'm wrong. I think any of KK, Suzuki or Caufield are more valuable/attractive pieces - you basically offered the lesser of the 4.

Lafreniere isn't worth Crosby, of course. But i think he's one of the best prospects after Crosby/Mcdavid since the lockout. Maybe as high as #3 - if not, in that #3-7 range. Yakupov didn't have anywhere near that value/projection.

As to the bulk picks. If i look at our draft picks from 2011-2017 from rounds 2-7 - it's a whole lot of garbage. Mete is one of the only names that stand out, and he doesn't move the needle for Lafreniere. It's true that teams get lucky and sometimes find gems in later rounds - but more often then not, it's all crap.

If I look at Detroit's draft record (our most likely trading partner for Lafreniere) also from 2011-2017 from rounds 2 to 7 - it's also a whole lot of crap, with barely any actual NHL'ers, and none elite.

The bulk picks i don't think do much here.

Maybe if we win the lotto at #2 or #3 - and if Detroit really, really also likes the other player - you could do a package that included the #2 pick + bulk picks. But i'm trying to look at this from a more realistic scenario - where we dont' win lotto, and have the ~10th or so pick

 

[David Suzuki]

It would probably take our 1st (around 10th overall) + Caufield + Romanov + Kotkaniemi (or Suzuki) for them to even consider trading the pick.

done

 

[FLHabs]

I get that you're hesitant, however fast forward 4-5 years. We didn't make the trade. We have Caufield on the 2nd line putting up 25-30 goals and 50 points, not producing in the playoffs. We have Romanov playing 2nd pairing, hardly producing and having the occasional brain fart. We have KK/Suzuki playing on the top line yet only mustering up 65 points in a good season. Meanwhile you turn on Sportscenter and you watch highlight after highlight of Lafreniere lighting up the league, scoring over 100 points, carrying his team, selling jerseys, inspiring kids and simply being a franchise cornerstone.

Now go try and trade for him. Better yet, wait till his second shot at Free agency when he's 28 and see if he wants to play here now.... lol

Haha yea that's a perfect scenario in making a case for a trade, but reality doesn't work like that. Hindsight will always be 20/20, but on the day of the trade, that's a huge gamble for any GM to make. And like other posters have said, I really doubt the team that lands the 1st overall trades it for prospects. Established and productive players maybe, but not prospects.

 

[calder candidate]

We don't have a Peter Forsberg to trade. Non-starter.

Even if we did... wouldn’t it be better to keep him and all our others pieces?
If it wasn’t for the Recchi / Leclair Desjardins trade the Lindros trade Probably would have became a flop.

 

[Mrb1p]

Makes sense. I don't know. I know a ton of people hate Bergevin - and if the choice is keep him and also get Lafreniere or lose both - many would forego both.
I was looking at it more from a Habs perspective - than from what fans would want. They either allow him to do the trade and keep Bergevin - or don't allow him to do the trade to begin with.



Petry is worth a first and a prospect sure - but he's a UFA next year. His value at the draft or off-season probably still high - i'd argue it would have been higher at the TDL though. If Detroit's end goal is to get the 1st round pick and prospect - they'd prefer that directly, to Petry.

We vastly disagree on Romanov. To me he looks like maybe a top 4d, mostly defensive. Not sure he'll be anywhere as good as any of the dozen or so high profile D's that came into the league the past few seasons (Hughes, Chabot, Makar, Heiska, etc etc). Maybe i'm wrong. I think any of KK, Suzuki or Caufield are more valuable/attractive pieces - you basically offered the lesser of the 4.

Lafreniere isn't worth Crosby, of course. But i think he's one of the best prospects after Crosby/Mcdavid since the lockout. Maybe as high as #3 - if not, in that #3-7 range. Yakupov didn't have anywhere near that value/projection.

As to the bulk picks. If i look at our draft picks from 2011-2017 from rounds 2-7 - it's a whole lot of garbage. Mete is one of the only names that stand out, and he doesn't move the needle for Lafreniere. It's true that teams get lucky and sometimes find gems in later rounds - but more often then not, it's all crap.

If I look at Detroit's draft record (our most likely trading partner for Lafreniere) also from 2011-2017 from rounds 2 to 7 - it's also a whole lot of crap, with barely any actual NHL'ers, and none elite.

The bulk picks i don't think do much here.

Maybe if we win the lotto at #2 or #3 - and if Detroit really, really also likes the other player - you could do a package that included the #2 pick + bulk picks. But i'm trying to look at this from a more realistic scenario - where we dont' win lotto, and have the ~10th or so pick

It doesnt matter what you think of Romanov, he's regarded league wide as a top prospect, end of discussion.

Youre going off insight on Yakupov, he was a true 1st overall no matter what you think. Look at his stats pre-draft and what he accomplished, to say he's not anywhere close to that is laughable.

The point about our pick sis completely asinine. If you look at tampas 2nd rounders and third rounders theyve yielded guys like Point and Kucherov, so I guess they should trade Lafreniere for the those picks, especially since first overalls can end up being Yakupov, Hughes, Johnson, Hischier, Ekblad, RNH...

I hope you realize how stupid that argument is.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Sure, why not? I’d trade the Bell Centre for him...

 

[scrubadam]

How do you distinguish between 1C and Franchise / HOF in the above?

I was puzzled, because there's no doubt in my mind both McKinnon and McDavid are considered franchise players and are likely to both enter HOF.

Just my personal opinion, but mainly cups or other stats.

McD is a great player but how many playoffs has he been too? How many cups?

McKinnion took a while to get where he is and again another great player but not much playoffs/cups.

Both of the above can change over time of course. Ovie took 15 years to win a cup.

JT and Stamkos I put as 1C because I see them a slight step below franchise/HOF players just based on their carrers so far. JT if he wasn't on the Island maybe things are different. Stamkos was fire his first few years and has taken a back seat lately to guys like Kuch and Point on his own team.

But if you get a 1C/Franchise or HOF all are good in the end.

Bigger concern would be the Meh's on the list. 1st Overall pick is usually a good player, sometimes franchise player and a rare chance at a HOFer. Worse would be to draft a Dmen with the pick though LOL.

So would you trade a whole bunch of assets for an Ekblad, Hall, Nico, EJ ? I would for sure do it for a Crosby/McD, but not the list above. I don't know where Laf falls but the last few 1st OVA haven't been to impressive so maybe we are in a down swing now ??

 

[Mrb1p]

Just my personal opinion, but mainly cups or other stats.

McD is a great player but how many playoffs has he been too? How many cups?

McKinnion took a while to get where he is and again another great player but not much playoffs/cups.

Both of the above can change over time of course. Ovie took 15 years to win a cup.

JT and Stamkos I put as 1C because I see them a slight step below franchise/HOF players just based on their carrers so far. JT if he wasn't on the Island maybe things are different. Stamkos was fire his first few years and has taken a back seat lately to guys like Kuch and Point on his own team.

But if you get a 1C/Franchise or HOF all are good in the end.

Bigger concern would be the Meh's on the list. 1st Overall pick is usually a good player, sometimes franchise player and a rare chance at a HOFer. Worse would be to draft a Dmen with the pick though LOL.

So would you trade a whole bunch of assets for an Ekblad, Hall, Nico, EJ ? I would for sure do it for a Crosby/McD, but not the list above. I don't know where Laf falls but the last few 1st OVA haven't been to impressive so maybe we are in a down swing now ??

Lol is this serious ?

Call the HOF they need to kick out Lindros and Marcel Dionne.

 

[Video Coach]

Only way I can see this happening is if we get the 2nd or 3rd OA pick.

But would I trade 10thOA + Romanov, Caufield, KK...ummm, no.

If you do you're losing what should be 4 crucial parts of the future core of the team for one guy. You take away the LD they've been waiting for for years, the centre they've been waiting for for years, the goal scorer you've been waiting for for years, and a 1st that should be a real player in 2-3 years. For 1 guy. Yes, he's a superstar in the making but I don't see him as generational - ie Lindros, Crosby.

 

[scrubadam]

Lol is this serious ?

Call the HOF they need to kick out Lindros and Marcel Dionne.

Well maybe a better way to look at it is would you trade a kings ransom to only keep missing the playoffs?

McDavid is one of the best players in the game. So lets say Laff is as good as him. Ok great habs would have an Art Ross winner, but would it be worth it to trade a ton of good pieces to miss the playoffs for the next 4 or 5 years? Its one thing to get the pick from the Loto, its another to trade to get it.

So its more like looking at which of those 1st turned their teams franchises around. Thats the point. Just getting a good player is not good enough. If the habs were to trade Suzuki/Romanov/Cole + multiple 1st/picks well we better not get someone who isn't going to make the team a contender. The guy we traded would have to turn the team into a top team, not the Oilers who miss the playoffs over and over again.

 

[Scintillating10]

Yes, mainly because Timmins can't miss on him. At 10th, strong possibility of a bust. So, really in favour of trading up or trading 10th pick for young first liner, NHL proven.

 

[domiwroze]

I'd offer pretty much anything. Sure we would lose a lot, but you can't spit on a franchise player when you have the chance to acquire one.

Kotkaniemi + Caufield + Mete + 10th overall + 3x 2nd pick should get their attention. The only guy I wouldn't trade is Suzuki, I want Suzuki to feed nasty passes to Laf.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yes, mainly because Timmins can't miss on him. At 10th, strong possibility of a bust. So, really in favour of trading up or trading 10th pick for young first liner, NHL proven.

We screwed up Wickenheiser... why not Lafreniere?

 

[Canadienna]

Depends on the price.

Not willing to give up much in terms of our prospect pool.

I'd offer

Drouin or Tatar
Domi or Danault
Petry
Poehling

Habs 1st 2020
2nd 2020
2nd 2020


For

1st Overall
Bobby Ryan
Nikita Zaitsev

If they insist on futures (which they will) then I'm probably out.

 

[Mrb1p]

Well maybe a better way to look at it is would you trade a kings ransom to only keep missing the playoffs?

McDavid is one of the best players in the game. So lets say Laff is as good as him. Ok great habs would have an Art Ross winner, but would it be worth it to trade a ton of good pieces to miss the playoffs for the next 4 or 5 years? Its one thing to get the pick from the Loto, its another to trade to get it.

So its more like looking at which of those 1st turned their teams franchises around. Thats the point. Just getting a good player is not good enough. If the habs were to trade Suzuki/Romanov/Cole + multiple 1st/picks well we better not get someone who isn't going to make the team a contender. The guy we traded would have to turn the team into a top team, not the Oilers who miss the playoffs over and over again.

The Habs have been trying your approach for 30 years and it hasn't worked, why is this going over your head?

 

[Tabarouette]

Losing a lot means little to get such a strong link in a game like hockey.

No matter the offer they'll probably say no, but if you have the chance to trade pretty much anything considering our lack of elite talent, you do it

 

[Gamimenos]

I voted yes, but I put an asterisk there because I have my reservations about the QMJHL and the quality of the stars originating from there.

 

[azcanuck]

Why would any team trade away a such a talent to get Montreal's best prospects who may or may not make it.
It will never happen.

 

[cphabs]

I’d want our next 3 1st rounders, Romanov, and Suzuki.

 

[scrubadam]

The Habs have been trying your approach for 30 years and it hasn't worked, why is this going over your head?

Which approach?

We are talking specifically about trading a kings ransom for the 1st OVA pick. Outside of Philidelphia I don't remember another team ever doing that.

This isn't about tanking for the 1st OVA. This is about trading mulitple good prospects and multiple high picks to get a 1st OVA. If we are trading all those pieces we better get a pick that turns this team around and into a cup contender.

Would you have traded KK this years 1st, Suzuki, Romanov, and Cole for Hughes or Nico? Would the habs be contending for a cup with either of those guys on the team?

Again the question isn't would you tank for them, its would you trade a kings ransom to get them.

Trading for a 1st OVA does not equal tanking for one, thats totally different. The oilers didn't have to trade Drai, Hall + 2 1sts to get McDavid, they won the Lotto for him, big difference. One is free, the other has a huge cost.

 

[Mrb1p]

Which approach?

We are talking specifically about trading a kings ransom for the 1st OVA pick. Outside of Philidelphia I don't remember another team ever doing that.

This isn't about tanking for the 1st OVA. This is about trading mulitple good prospects and multiple high picks to get a 1st OVA. If we are trading all those pieces we better get a pick that turns this team around and into a cup contender.

Would you have traded KK this years 1st, Suzuki, Romanov, and Cole for Hughes or Nico? Would the habs be contending for a cup with either of those guys on the team?

Again the question isn't would you tank for them, its would you trade a kings ransom to get them.

Trading for a 1st OVA does not equal tanking for one, thats totally different. The oilers didn't have to trade Drai, Hall + 2 1sts to get McDavid, they won the Lotto for him, big difference. One is free, the other has a huge cost.

The Habs have tried the many good players but no great players, it doesn't work. The Blues are the only team that ever won with that approach and theyre the worst cup winner, probably since the war.

 

[Ozmodiar]

9th OA + KK + Caufield

that’s a whole line. Ideally, insert Drouin instead of one of these future wingers. Then..

laf - Suzuki - Caufield

not a chance it would happen tho.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

Absolutely.

They can have all 14 picks!!!

 

[Captain Mountain]

No. Because I don't think people really understand just how expensive it would be. 1st OA picks don't move for a reason. You'd have to pay more than what the other team thinks the player is worth. And it would have to quality too.