would you lose respect for a player if...

[Rabid Ranger]

I can't believe how many people are still whining about Brett Hull, despite several well-reasoned posts that totally debunk that viewpoint. Van has set the table in as clear of language as possible and people are still yapping. Get over it!!!

 

[Big Cat Davo]

Man o Man

It was the 84 Canada Cup. There was no 86 Canada Cup. There were no try-outs. Players were appointed. The NHLPA would not agree to tryout camps. The tem was hand picked by Glen Sather and hull was left off. Hull was not the only dual citizen to play for the US in the 84 Canada Cup. Brian Trottier also played for the Americans after being left off the team by Slats. Trots got to pick his team beacuse as a North American Indian he holds dual citizenship.

Hull was not selected to the team by Sather and Team USA asked him to play. He would be a fool if he turned down the opportunity to play at the Canada Cup simply because Glen Sather selected Rick Middleton or Brain Sutter or Hull.

I say most of the "Canadians" that are angry at Hull are jelous that Glen Sather passed of a young 40 goal man in 84 and cost Canada the opportunity to have Brett Hull on our squad. I see nothing wrong with what Hull did.

Dave

 

[Markov]

I used to be pissed at Alex Mogilny when he refused to play for Russia. In some ways you except them to play for the motherland. But then after all the bullcrap I have seen happen with the Russian hockey federation this year, I can't blame him or any other player that refuses to play for Russia again.

 

[bling]

It was the 84 Canada Cup. There was no 86 Canada Cup. There were no try-outs. Players were appointed. The NHLPA would not agree to tryout camps. The tem was hand picked by Glen Sather and hull was left off. Hull was not the only dual citizen to play for the US in the 84 Canada Cup. Brian Trottier also played for the Americans after being left off the team by Slats. Trots got to pick his team beacuse as a North American Indian he holds dual citizenship.

Hull was not selected to the team by Sather and Team USA asked him to play. He would be a fool if he turned down the opportunity to play at the Canada Cup simply because Glen Sather selected Rick Middleton or Brain Sutter or Hull.

I say most of the "Canadians" that are angry at Hull are jelous that Glen Sather passed of a young 40 goal man in 84 and cost Canada the opportunity to have Brett Hull on our squad. I see nothing wrong with what Hull did.

Dave

"Who was that guy who cut Brett Hull (from Canada's world team) in 1986, anyway?" Gretzky asked wryly.

Here is where I got the info on 1986 Canada Cup, an article from the 1996 World Cup. http://www.canoe.ca/HockeyWorldCup/sep15_world.html

If this is incorrect then at least I tried to get accurate info, I thought I could trust Gretzky...LOL

I never said anything about Hull trying out for Team Canada. I was pretty sure he was never even asked.

This is one of those stupid discussions that goes nowhere. Certain people are going to hang onto their beliefs in spite of whatever evidence is presented. My only hope is to demonstrate that there are two sides to this issue and maybe some who are not so stubborn can see it.

 

[Legolas]

Personally, I have a small problem with Hull, which is based on an assumption, and if my assumption is wrong, then that's okay...I'm not too upset over it.

Where did Hull develop? Did he grow up in the US or Canada? I thought he grew up in Canada, but that's my assumption. And if that's true, then he did turn his back on Canada because Canada theoretically provided the system that made him the hockey player he became. Athletes in general who go through a development system and then bolt to another country (ie. Owen Hargreaves, Greg Rusedski) are pretty annoying if you ask me. I don't get super angry about it, but it's a knock against them in my opinion. Again though, if my assumption is wrong, then my argument doesn't apply to Hull.

And furthermore, I thought Hull was cut by a world championship team when he was a kid, and that's why he chose to go with the US Canada Cup squad...I thought he was loyal to the US because they gave him a chance before he got into the NHL..I'll have to look into that.

 

[Big Cat Davo]

My appolgies to all. It was indeed the 86 World Hockey Championship team that Hull was cut from. Over the like of some very poor players. The American's asked him to play he said sure and lead the American team is scoring.

Again my appolgies for critizing for not having my facts straight.

Brett Hull's take on the situation

“Canada got first dibs, but their coach said I was no good. And the U.S. said, ‘We’ll take him.’ And I said, ‘Thank you very much.’ Would you think more of me if I took that opportunity from Team USA in 1986, and then, when I got better, told the Americans to bugger off, I’m playing for Canada? Or would you like me to show my loyalty to the people who gave me a great opportunity and stick with them like I did? I don’t know if I’d be here if it wasn’t for U.S. Hockey.â€

Seems pretty cut and dried. As for what system he developed in. The answer woul dbe both. He played Junior A hockey in Penticton, before landing a Scholarship to Minn-Deluth and playing two years of NCAA.

Again, sorry for my previous misinformed rant.
Dave

 

[thrill_me_mogilny]

For the most part, no. I would rather a player decline than whine and complain about ice time,conditions, etc. From what I've noticed on hockey boards, most of the players who have declined have already represented their homeland, some by force.

I would love to see Canada's best play Russia's best(Bure, Fedorov, Mogilny, Khabi, etc) but with the Russian situation, it won't happen under Tikhonov. I can't blame any of those players for declining.

As for Brett Hull, he did what most people would do, make use of all your options.

 

[Big Phil]

Okay to set the record staight about Hull. He did not get an invite from then Coach Dave King for the 1986 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS. The reason why is because Canada only picked NHL players at that time just like now. For example Sidney Crosby was not on the team this year. Hull was a College player at that time, a prospect. Would anyone expect Dion Phaneuf or Jeff Carter to be on Team Canada at the Wolrds this year over guys like Heatley? No.

So therefore Hull played for the USA. The next chance he got to play for the USA was in the Canada Cup in 1991. He'd come off an 86-goal Hart Trophy year. Then in 1996 he represented USA again. And to answer someone in an earlier post, he did actually score two goals in game 3 of the World Cup against Canada. One that was illegal however.

Now even though he still plays on Team USA it doesnt matter as much. I still cant stand him, but they lost in '98, '02 and they arent going to get a sniff at this years World Cup we all know that. So it eases the pain a bit from '96. It also feels good to know that Hull is 40 years old and wouldnt be picked to be on Canada now anways.

So in conclusion what he did was turn his back on his country. If his mother wasnt an American he wouldnt have been eligible for dual citizenship. He was born in Belleville, Ontario. And the reason Trottier did that in '84 was so he could give back to the
USA what it had given him. You think Slats wouldnt have picked him back in '84? So both of them are "draft dodgers" in my opinion. But its their loss. USA wasnt a powerhouse in '84 and were lucky to be one in '96. Hull has missed out on a lot more by not joining Canada. Its his loss.

By the way you dont hear Primeau or Kariya trying out for USA just cause they've lived there for a while. That's turning your back on the country that taught you how to play the game that you make millions of dollars for in the first place.

 

[Jazz]

....
I will however say that what Lemieux did to the Penguins in their fans in 2002 was far worse.

I completely disagree with this.

Lemieux has time-in time-out saved that franchise (let me count the ways...). I say good for him for finally putting something he wanted to do ahead of running to the resuce of the Pens again.

The fans owe him for all he's done for them, not the other way around.

....By the way you dont hear Primeau or Kariya trying out for USA just cause they've lived there for a while. That's turning your back on the country that taught you how to play the game that you make millions of dollars for in the first place.

Plus my take on Brett Hull: I applaud him for a word that everyone complains about sports athletes not having...."Loyalty". You go with whoever gave you the chance....I'm sure over 90% here would do the same thing if they were in his shoes at the time.

The arguement about Primeau and Kariya holds no water because they are not dual citizens, plus they have already played for Canada and could not suit up for anyone else even if they wanted to.

Funny how us Canadians didn't mind when Peter Statsny (of Slovakia) played for us in the 1984 Canada Cup.

 

[Reilly311]

Lemieux has time-in time-out saved that franchise (let me count the ways...). I say good for him for finally putting something he wanted to do ahead of running to the resuce of the Pens again.

The fans owe him for all he's done for them, not the other way around.

Yes, Lemieux saved the franchise countless times, but what he did in 2002 was disrespectful to the fans that supported him in good times and bad. Everyone knew he didn't want to play for the crappy pens but kept making up excuses. All he had to do was say "I'm not interested in playing for the current collection of players at this time, I'm going to concentrate on international play". I don't blame him for what he did, but just come out and say it.

 

[kacz]

Ukrainian hockey knows this phrase all too well.

But really, I'd don't lose much respect for a player if a Ukrainian born player decides to go play for Russia. Ukraine has seen many young stars go this route including Nikolai Zherdev and Anton Babchuk. They simply wanted to play with the best, but going to Russia isn't always the best decision. Ukraine showed they could produce some stars in Ukraine which includes the likes of Dmitri Khristich and Stanley Cup Champion, Ruslan Fedotenko.

 

[Paxon]

"Duty" is one hell of a rally term.

Come on people, "your country needs you!" More like, "the hockey team of players from your country could use your services!"

Sounds just as catchy, right?

These guys play an insane schedule against the world's best and most punishing hockey players. If they don't want to play another 10 games, who cares? They don't owe you or their country('s hockey team) anything.

 

[jstreet]

These guys play an insane schedule against the world's best and most punishing hockey players. If they don't want to play another 10 games, who cares? They don't owe you or their country('s hockey team) anything.

well said. Im glad to see some of my Preds on the international stage, but if they want to rest and wait until they get back to Nashville to give it their all, Im dandy with that too.