would you lose respect for a player if...

[Ned Flanders]

he decline to play for their country?

Yes.

 

[Papa Smurf]

I also do not understand why you are all so pissed at Brett Hull....dudes, ya did not want him on team Canada, you said he was not good enough. He then exercised his right of dual citizenship and was deemed good enough to play for the USA. I do not get why every Canadian disses him unmercifully for that.

We diss him because he dissed Canada, seriously. Not only did he say himself that he did not consider himself Canadian, but at one point a couple years ago he had also reffered to Canadian fans as "morons".

 

[Vic Rattlehead*]

I thought Roy didn't go because Quinn told him he would have to compete for the #1 job and Roy thought he was the #1 automatically.

I still don't get why Cujo was #1 ahead of Brodeur for the first game against Sweden.

 

[Bud The Spud*]

I thought Roy didn't go because Quinn told him he would have to compete for the #1 job and Roy thought he was the #1 automatically.

I still don't get why Cujo was #1 ahead of Brodeur for the first game against Sweden.

I thought that Roy didn't go because he had other commitments with his family.

 

[ZombieMatt]

This is why I think it's so hard to understand why most North American, especially American stars almost never seem to be willing to play for their country in the World Championships held every year in April-May. The ones that are out of the playoffs SHOULD play for their country unless they're injured, and it seems like it's mostly the European teams that get to have their best available players on their teams for these tournaments. Canada has improved alot lately but Team USA almost never get any of their stars to play for them. Even if the tournament is an IIHF endorsed one and has nothing to do with the NHL, I don't understand why they're not willing to play for their country, since most (but not all) European stars do play for their country if they're eliminated from the Stanley Cup. It's like their country means less to them in these tournaments than the World Cup or Olympics, why is that?

The IIHF World Championships are held in Europe most of the time...well, each of the past 10 years at least anyhow if I'm not mistaken. It's much less of a commitment for a Swedish player to say he wants to play in Finland or a Russian to play in Slovakia than it is for a Canadian to play in Germany. The travelling and such has to be a consideration.

 

[bling]

We diss him because he dissed Canada, seriously. Not only did he say himself that he did not consider himself Canadian, but at one point a couple years ago he had also reffered to Canadian fans as "morons".

Thank you, that makes more sense. I had not specifically heard that. I always hear/read Canadians trashing Hull for being a traitor to Canada for playing for the USA in international tournaments.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

Unless there are some serious extenuating circumstances (injury) if a player is asked to play for his country he go all the time.

I will however say that what Lemieux did to the Penguins in their fans in 2002 was far worse.

 

[Stammer Time*]

No.

 

[Big Phil]

First off the story with Hull is that he was rejected in 1986 to play for team Canada at the World Championships since they only took NHLers to play. It was Dave King who didnt invite him I believe. So? Big deal? Its like Sidney Crosby being pissed he wasnt invited to the World Cup and then getting picked by Team USA if he had dual citizenship.

You dont hear Paul Kariya saying he's now Japanese do you? Say for example Rick Nash has an american mother therefore having dual citizenship. He doesnt get picked by Canada, which is not a big deal cause he'll be a 50 goal man soon I'm sure and Canada does have some good players ahead of him. Now what if all of a sudden he went to Team USA despite not being an American. In the Gold Medal game he scores the winner against Canada. Yeah anyone would be pissed about that. Any American would call someone like that a traitor if it was the other way around.

You see that's what happened to Hull in 1996. Except it was the tying goal that was a tad questionable. So yes he did turn his back on his country, Adam Deadmarsh did the same thing. But both of them looked great in silver I thought in Salt Lake!

 

[Prince Mercury]

I do hope you are attemptng to crack wise here.....LOL

Just in case you are not, let me tell you that Patrick Roy lives in Canada with his very Canadian wife and and Canadian children.

I've heard dozens of reasons for why he doesn't play for Canada, if anyone thinks they know for sure then I won't doubt they know better than I do.

I also do not understand why you are all so pissed at Brett Hull....dudes, ya did not want him on team Canada, you said he was not good enough. He then exercised his right of dual citizenship and was deemed good enough to play for the USA. I do not get why every Canadian disses him unmercifully for that.

Look at it from your own perspective...if you wanted to play for a team and they rejected you, would you go home, hang up the skates, and never play again? No, you would find a team that would take you, just like Hullie did.

Brett Hull didn't find another team, he found another country. I'm sorry, but if I'm not the best person to represent my country, I'd rather be represented by someone who is. You don't see me trying to twist Gretzky's arm to get me on Team Canada, do you? Not because it won't work (because it probably wouldn't work for me to find him on the street and beg him to let me play) but because these people are supposed to show the world what Canada is, and what hockey means to us - and what Canada means to hockey. I'd rather get cut from the team and have my country win then make the team and have my country lose.

 

[Vic Rattlehead*]

. But both of them looked great in silver I thought in Salt Lake!

 

[Vyacheslav]

Any American would call someone like that a traitor if it was the other way around.

Nope, sorry.

 

[littleHossa]

International tournaments are important for a country's hockey program and for the little kids growing up. If a player is good enough to be asked to represent his country at such a high level, he should accept, unless of course an injury, serious issue... How many kids grow up dreaming to represent their country and to see a player blessed with their talent refuse to play, it's disrespectful.

 

[Papa Smurf]

I will however say that what Lemieux did to the Penguins in their fans in 2002 was far worse.

What did he do?

(I'm sure I know, but it just left my mond at the moment.)

 

[MikeC44]

First off the story with Hull is that he was rejected in 1986 to play for team Canada at the World Championships since they only took NHLers to play. It was Dave King who didnt invite him I believe. So? Big deal? Its like Sidney Crosby being pissed he wasnt invited to the World Cup and then getting picked by Team USA if he had dual citizenship.

You dont hear Paul Kariya saying he's now Japanese do you? Say for example Rick Nash has an american mother therefore having dual citizenship. He doesnt get picked by Canada, which is not a big deal cause he'll be a 50 goal man soon I'm sure and Canada does have some good players ahead of him. Now what if all of a sudden he went to Team USA despite not being an American. In the Gold Medal game he scores the winner against Canada. Yeah anyone would be pissed about that. Any American would call someone like that a traitor if it was the other way around.

You see that's what happened to Hull in 1996. Except it was the tying goal that was a tad questionable. So yes he did turn his back on his country, Adam Deadmarsh did the same thing. But both of them looked great in silver I thought in Salt Lake!

I'm Canadian, and I don't have a problem with Brett Hull at all.
Team Canada wouldn't take him back in 1986 or whenever, and Team USA did. He's a dual-citizen. It's his right.
Then when he was 'good', Team Canada wanted him, but he decided to stay with the USA. I consider it more of a 'Thank You' to USA Hockey than a snub to Canada.

And then when I think about all the 'Canadians' like Daniel Igali and David Defiagbon, winning medals in World Competitions/Olympics, it bothers me even less.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

What did he do?

(I'm sure I know, but it just left my mond at the moment.)

Essentially played for Team Canada and the quit on the Pens and their season ticket holders for the rest of the year.

He built his entire schedule around the Olympics, the Pens and their fans be damned.

 

[nWoCHRISnWo]

^Funny how those Pen fans you speak of don't hold the same opinion.

And of course Brett Hull had the right to do what he did, otherwise he couldn't have, but that doesn't mean he did the "right" thing. They felt he wasn't good enough to be on Team Canada, the team he was trying to be on, and it made him look like a baby to go off to another team and play there. I don't think a lot of people would do this, I think more people would get better and prove they deserve to be on the team instead.

 

[bling]

^Funny how those Pen fans you speak of don't hold the same opinion.

And of course Brett Hull had the right to do what he did, otherwise he couldn't have, but that doesn't mean he did the "right" thing. They felt he wasn't good enough to be on Team Canada, the team he was trying to be on, and it made him look like a baby to go off to another team and play there. I don't think a lot of people would do this, I think more people would get better and prove they deserve to be on the team instead.

None of your explanations make any sense...it all comes back to you are pissed because he came to play with the US team AFTER he was rejected by the Canadian team...like I said before how can you fault him for wanting to play hockey?Again I ask, would you hang up your skates and not play at all if your first choice of teams rejected you?

How very petty and childish of you to expect Brett to not play at all if the great Team Canada has no place for him. So, according to your twisted reasoning, every player brought to training camp that does not make the big club is a traitor of some sort because they end up ultimately playing for a different team than the one they originally wanted to play for.

 

[nWoCHRISnWo]

None of your explanations make any sense...it all comes back to you are pissed because he came to play with the US team AFTER he was rejected by the Canadian team...like I said before how can you fault him for wanting to play hockey?Again I ask, would you hang up your skates and not play at all if your first choice of teams rejected you?

How very petty and childish of you to expect Brett to not play at all if the great Team Canada has no place for him. So, according to your twisted reasoning, every player brought to training camp that does not make the big club is a traitor of some sort because they end up ultimately playing for a different team than the one they originally wanted to play for.

I'm not pissed that Brett left team Canada for team USA, Canada's just fine without him. That decision hasn't exactly come back to bite Canada in the *** and Canada has enough good players without him. If my country rejected me, I would not go join another country's team. I would try to become a better player and make the team next time, not turn my back on my country.

Playing for professional clubs and national teams are two completely different things and you know that. You play in the NHL to make money, so players should try getting on whatever team possible. You play in international tournaments to represent your country, not cry and go play with whoever will take you if you're not good enough to make your team.

 

[BCCHL inactive]

because they were not good enough to play for theirs and they were bitter about it *cough*Hull*cough*, than I would loose all respect for him.

Brett Hull has two countries. Canada and the United States. Being a dual citizen, he had every right to play for the USA when they came calling.

Come next year, I will be a citizen of Canada and The Netherlands. I would feel equally proud representing either nation.

Players like Brady Murray are the ones I have a problem with. This kid held out from Team Canada's second U20 training camp for a guaranteed roster spot, and then jumped to the USA when Hockey Canada told him he would have to earn his spot with Team Canada.

Patrick Roy also bugged me when he wouldn't play at the 2002 Olympics if he was not named the starting goaltender before the tournament.

It's like their country means less to them in these tournaments than the World Cup or Olympics, why is that?

Here in North America, the World Championships mean little to nothing. Even Canadians in general wouldn't feel sad if Canada got whooped at the WC every May. I would bet that the majority of our generation's fans don't even know that Canada went without a Gold Medal from 1961-1994 at this tournament.

I think the biggest reason is that the IIHF has never held the World Championships in Canada or the USA. That will change in 2008 when Canada hosts, but I still don't think it will put this tournament on the map for Canadians because it takes place in the middle of the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

The only tournaments we really care about are the Olympics, World Cup (old Canada Cup) and the World U20 Championships....the tournaments where ALL of the best players eligible are available.

I also don't feel any hostility towards NHL players who choose not to participate in the World Championships after a long NHL season. These men spend a lot of time away from their families as it is. It is a huge favour to ask them to go to Europe for a few weeks on top of their season when they could spend some well-owed time with their wives and children.

Also Roenick didnt play back then because he didnt have a contract! Now that's turning your back on your country.

I don't blame Roenick one bit in that case. With no contract, you have no guarantees. All you would have is insurance for medical costs if necessary. If Roenick played and suffered a career-ending injury with no contract, he would have no compensation. Being an NHL-sanctioned tournament, suffering such an injury at the World Cup would entitle a player to $3M (if I remember correctly, and under the near-expired CBA). It is simply too much of a risk to play any professional hockey without a contract.

Not only did he say himself that he did not consider himself Canadian

Why would he? He tried out for Team Canada, got cut, and Team USA offered him a spot with them. Being an American Citizen, why should Hull be criticized for exercising his right to play for the USA?

Say for example Rick Nash has an american mother therefore having dual citizenship. He doesnt get picked by Canada, which is not a big deal cause he'll be a 50 goal man soon I'm sure and Canada does have some good players ahead of him. Now what if all of a sudden he went to Team USA despite not being an American.

Here is where you contradict yourself.

If Rick Nash has an American mother, he is an American Citizen, which makes him "American", thus giving him every right to represent the USA if he has not previously represented Canada.

I cannot believe how many Canadians lay it to Brett Hull for competing for one of his countries when the other would not take him. I don't think most of you realize what rights come with being a dual citizen...and if you do realize those rights, I sure don't see a lot of respect for them in this thread. You people act as if Hull went and "found another country" after Canada cut him, when in reality, the USA has been one of Hull's countries since he was born.

According to some mentalities seen in this thread, Daniel Igali should be crucified by the Nigerians because he is a Canadian Citizen and competes for Canada. Shame on him for winning Gold for Canada at the Olympics despite "not being Canadian".

 

[nWoCHRISnWo]

I think everyone understands what rights Hull has, but it doesn't mean we agree with what he did. And unless Igali tried out for Nigeria's wrestling squad and got cut first, then the situation is different.

 

[BCCHL inactive]

I think everyone understands what rights Hull has, but it doesn't mean we agree with what he did. And unless Igali tried out for Nigeria's wrestling squad and got cut first, then the situation is different.

The situation is no different.

Hull is being criticized for representing the USA as a US citizen when he had never previously represented Canada (and no, trying out does not count as representing that country).

Igali is a landed immigrant who succesfully applied for Canadian Citizenship, thus he represents Canada, one of his two countries of nationality (unless Nigeria has a law forcing Igali to drop his Nigerian Citizenship once he gains another..that I am not aware of either way).

Both Hull and Igali have two countries to their names. Both Hull and Igali have represented one of those two countries in their respective sports....yet Hull takes a load of criticism from Canadians.

And no, I don't think many Canadians realize or respect Hull's rights as a dual citizen. I see a lot of comments about how Hull, "turned his back on his country", speaking as if he is nothing but a Canadian. That is nothing but a blatant lie.

It seems to me that Canadians criticizing Hull are just bitter and jealous to the fact that he does not represent Canada, despite having the right to represent the USA.

 

[bling]

I'm not pissed that Brett left team Canada for team USA, Canada's just fine without him. That decision hasn't exactly come back to bite Canada in the *** and Canada has enough good players without him. If my country rejected me, I would not go join another country's team. I would try to become a better player and make the team next time, not turn my back on my country.

Playing for professional clubs and national teams are two completely different things and you know that. You play in the NHL to make money, so players should try getting on whatever team possible. You play in international tournaments to represent your country, not cry and go play with whoever will take you if you're not good enough to make your team.

So let's cut the crap and talk about what the real issue is here. Brett Hull was not invited to play for Canada in 1986 at the Canada Cup. He was not deemed good enough. According to your reasoning he should have just worked harder and hoped to get invited to play next time. Which would have been his only choice if he did not have dual citizenship. He had that option and with the preponderance of good Canadian hockey players it only made sense to play for the US. As you yourself said you don't need him or want him so why all this venom about him playing for the US.?

In truth all the hate comes from the fact that Hullie played very well in the 1996 World Cup and was instrumental in the US beating Canada. If he had not been successful as a member of the US team it is doubtful that Canadians would hate on him so.

BTW, he did play for his country in International tournaments but the country he played for was USA, which was just as much his country as Canada.

 

[Papa Smurf]

Brady Murray is actually Canadian!?!?!? I had no clue!

 

[nWoCHRISnWo]

The situation is no different.

Hull is being criticized for representing the USA as a US citizen when he had never previously represented Canada (and no, trying out does not count as representing that country).

Igali is a landed immigrant who succesfully applied for Canadian Citizenship, thus he represents Canada, one of his two countries of nationality (unless Nigeria has a law forcing Igali to drop his Nigerian Citizenship once he gains another..that I am not aware of either way).

Both Hull and Igali have two countries to their names. Both Hull and Igali have represented one of those two countries in their respective sports....yet Hull takes a load of criticism from Canadians.

And no, I don't think many Canadians realize or respect Hull's rights as a dual citizen. I see a lot of comments about how Hull, "turned his back on his country", speaking as if he is nothing but a Canadian. That is nothing but a blatant lie.

It seems to me that Canadians criticizing Hull are just bitter and jealous to the fact that he does not represent Canada, despite having the right to represent the USA.

I guess we disagree then. Trying out for a team doesn't make him respresent it, but I don't care if he represented Canada before or not. What I see is that Hull wanted to be on Canada and tried out to be on Canada, but he couldn't make it so he "switched sides." I know he has the legal right to do it, but that doesn't change my opinion that it was a crybaby type thing to do.

if Igali would have tried out for Nigeria and not been good enough, it would be the same situation. As is, it's not. The "team" Daniel Igali wanted to be on and tried out for was the Canadian team first and foremost.

I still see it as Hull turning his back on Canada. He made a chocie to try out for Canada, and when he didn't make the cut, he went off to play with another country. Again we will have to agree to disagree whether he turned his back on Canada or not, because that's how I and a lot of other people view it.

I doubt many Canadians are very jealous of USA that they got Hull considering Canada has had their fair share of success without him.

So let's cut the crap and talk about what the real issue is here. Brett Hull was not invited to play for Canada in 1986 at the Canada Cup. He was not deemed good enough. According to your reasoning he should have just worked harder and hoped to get invited to play next time. Which would have been his only choice if he did not have dual citizenship. He had that option and with the preponderance of good Canadian hockey players it only made sense to play for the US. As you yourself said you don't need him or want him so why all this venom about him playing for the US.?

In truth all the hate comes from the fact that Hullie played very well in the 1996 World Cup and was instrumental in the US beating Canada. If he had not been successful as a member of the US team it is doubtful that Canadians would hate on him so.

BTW, he did play for his country in International tournaments but the country he played for was USA, which was just as much his country as Canada.

Once again I'm not pissed that Hull played for team USA instead, but it does make my opinion of Hull a lot worse.

I don't care how successful Hull has been on team USA at all. USA would have beat Canada in 1996 with or without Hull in my opinion. And besides that, when has Hull's play ever stopped Canada from getting anywhere? it's not like he scored a big overtime goal against Canada in a huge gold medal game or anything to make Canadians angry at that.

And if USA was just as much his as Canada, he should have tried out for them right off the bat. He tried out for Canada so he obviously wanted to play on that side first and foremost. I compare it loosely to hanging out with a group of friends over a different group, then having that group tell you they don't want to hang around with you anymore, so you go to your other friends instead.

Obviously we get the picture and understand what rights he had and what he did, but we just completely disagree whether we lose respect for him or not. That's what it all comes down to...