Proposal: Would you have traded Alex Formenton for a late 1st round pick at the past deadline?

[trentmccleary]

We once drafted Matt Puempel and Stefan Noeson late in the first round of the same draft.
A bird in the hand...

 

[GermanSpitfire]

I think the first post in the thread answers the question perfect. With that late first, Forms is the guy you hope to pick up.

Don’t understand why people are afraid of his RFA status. Doubt he gets more than 4 million on a contract that brings him upto his UFA years. Ottawa can absolutely afford that.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Thanks for participating! This is what I thought would happen although I was not sure it would be a flawless 100%

On another forum, in trade proposal, I said that Formenton was worth a 1st round pick and this is what I got :

« Thats not how it works lol, if you think Formenton is worth a 1st than 70% of the league is worth a 1st round pick. Same with JBD, he's a 1st round pick who's shown nothing in 4 years, teams would rather just use their 1st round pick and draft someone. Same with Greig, no team would trade a top 15 pick over just using the pick and drafting someone. Sot its basically 4 2nds, a low 1st and a top 10 pick for Debrincat, Ottawa is stupid to pass on a 40g guy like Debrincat for that. »

God I love to be « loled » at

He’s basically saying that Greig, Formenton, JBD are worth a low 1st and two 2nds

Not even sure people would trade Greig for that lol

JBD is likely worth a 2nd round pick, maybe late 1st right now. Better off keeping him instead of a pick.

Greig is likely worth a 15-20 OA. I'd also keep him.

Formenton is worth a 15-20 OA right now and I'd keep him too.

 

[Cosmix]

Formenton for me.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

61-1 ... I'm surprised more of the people crapping on Formenton on the regular are not taking the pick.

 

[cudi]

61-1 ... I'm surprised more of the people crapping on Formenton on the regular are not taking the pick.

and the 1 vote is just cuz they felt bad it had 0

 

[Answer]

Well, seeing as the poll results are 39 to 0 in this particular case, you're preaching to the choir.

What people are you referring to?

Even if he never plays in the top six again, he's still an extremely valuable member of the team.

Okay, you got me there

How ever, it was generally for people (whoever they are) are always down to trade good serviceable players for pick

e.g Trade C. Brown for a 1st rounder

and now, trade Formenton for a 1st rounder. Won't be surprise you see a post about trading Zub for a 1st rounder, this off season

Pretty sure I've seen some people proposing trading Brannstrom for a pick too

 

[bicboi64]

I'd rather keep Formenton. He's a guaranteed 3rd liner who can forecheck due to his speed, but he has enough offensive talent to develop into a top 6 forward. This is his first full season and he's almost scored 20g. We have a solid young forward who can play throughout the top 9 due to his speed and with some work, we'll know what role he fits best. There's no point in trading him for a pick, but I'd consider moving him for someone like Fiala, but only because he'd have value to someone like Minnesota given his rfa status.

 

[playasRus]

I wouldn't sign Formentkn to anything more than a 3 year bridge unless he's taking long term security over potential, along the lines of 3M X 6 years.

Otherwise, 1.0 M - 1.25M - 1.5M along the lines of Dzingel

 

[Back in Black]

No. We gotta stop being a Farm team to the NHL.

Look @ Duclair last night. He's got 31 goals on the season. We have to keep players, not get rid of them.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

No

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I wouldn't sign Formentkn to anything more than a 3 year bridge unless he's taking long term security over potential, along the lines of 3M X 6 years.

Otherwise, 1.0 M - 1.25M - 1.5M along the lines of Dzingel

That's the next poll after the overwhelming desire to keep him over a late 1st has been established with sufficient confidence.

 

[Xspyrit]

Why the curiosity?

It seems pretty straightforward and the poll results reflect that.

Sorry for the late replies! See post #25

Is this a poll designed to lead into another debate or point?

No but the idea came from a comment I received on another website actually. I knew (and hoped!) Formenton would win this poll but wanted to see the %. I am not disappointed. People understand his quality/value.

Formenton has the potential to be like Krieder, I bet if his draft was redone he would be a 1st rd pick & maybe top 15 IMO. Formenton all day long.

Pre 2021 Kreider though!

JBD is likely worth a 2nd round pick, maybe late 1st right now. Better off keeping him instead of a pick.

Greig is likely worth a 15-20 OA. I'd also keep him.

Formenton is worth a 15-20 OA right now and I'd keep him too.

That is totally fair. Thanks for this opinion

JBD stock has not raised from 26th OA but yeah, if it went down, not by much

 

[aragorn]

Sorry for the late replies! See post #25



No but the idea came from a comment I received on another website actually. I knew (and hoped!) Formenton would win this poll but wanted to see the %. I am not disappointed. People understand his quality/value.



Pre 2021 Kreider though!



That is totally fair. Thanks for this opinion

JBD stock has not raised from 26th OA but yeah, if it went down, not by much

Formenton is still quite young, if you add 25 lbs of muscle on his frame who knows what he could turn into. I just don't think we know how good he could be. While most people, me included, sometimes consider him a 3rd line forward, he has excelled playing on the 2nd line & on the PK. Again nobody knows what he could become, but it's certainly trending in the right direction. IMO he is just gettng started.

 

[TheDebater]

Thanks for participating! This is what I thought would happen although I was not sure it would be a flawless 100%

On another forum, in trade proposal, I said that Formenton was worth a 1st round pick and this is what I got :

« Thats not how it works lol, if you think Formenton is worth a 1st than 70% of the league is worth a 1st round pick. Same with JBD, he's a 1st round pick who's shown nothing in 4 years, teams would rather just use their 1st round pick and draft someone. Same with Greig, no team would trade a top 15 pick over just using the pick and drafting someone. Sot its basically 4 2nds, a low 1st and a top 10 pick for Debrincat, Ottawa is stupid to pass on a 40g guy like Debrincat for that. »

God I love to be « loled » at

He’s basically saying that Greig, Formenton, JBD are worth a low 1st and two 2nds

Not even sure people would trade Greig for that lol

Here is where it gets complicated because though because that person you quoted is not entirely wrong.

Would we, the Ottawa Senators, risk trading a young player with potential (Formenton) for a late 1st round pick that has way too much uncertainty for it to end up a good pick? No.

However on the flip side, as a team looking to add pieces to their team (assuming a contender) waste a 1st round pick on a player like Formenton who has potential but is not quite proven enough? Also no, or at least probably not.

Context is everything, and we see it every year around the deadline that most teams will use their 1st round picks on more proven established players.

For example would we have been more happy trading Paul for Joseph (before we knew what he can do), or Paul for a 1st round pick? Now hindsight might blur things if this question was asked in the present, but I would say most Senators fans would have taken the 1st rounder over Mathieu Joseph.

 

[Loach]

This is a silly thread.

 

[robsenz]

Hard no. Doesn't have the finish but he's one of a kind.

 

[yogibear]

I like Formenton.

 

[Xspyrit]

Here is where it gets complicated because though because that person you quoted is not entirely wrong.

Not entirely wrong on Formenton you mean?

I can't see him not being worth at least a late first round pick, he is 22 y/o and he has an Elite skill (easily top-5 skater in the NHL). And it's not like he was a midget, he's 6'2, 198 lbs and is quite ready to mix it up, not the type to backdown against intimidation. He seems to have a really bad temper.

This was his rookie season, he's going to continue developing. You could be looking at a 20/20 guy from the 3rd line, and this would be almost 100% Es + PK production. His defensive/physical game and PK work is already pretty good

His game will continue to evolve. Anyone who knows hockey and see his overall work see that he is already a quality player with even more space to improve. If he was 26 years old, then I could understand that he's "not worth a 1st round pick" anymore but you still have several cost controlled years with this guy. It's ridiculous to think a guy has peaked after his 22 y/o rookie season (not saying you're doing that but the guy seem to imply it's the case)

Did you read this?

Alex Formenton Has Arrived

The 22-year-old is showing that he’s not only an NHLer: he’s an impact one

www.silversevensens.com

Would we, the Ottawa Senators, risk trading a young player with potential (Formenton) for a late 1st round pick that has way too much uncertainty for it to end up a good pick? No.

However on the flip side, as a team looking to add pieces to their team (assuming a contender) waste a 1st round pick on a player like Formenton who has potential but is not quite proven enough? Also no, or at least probably not.

Context is everything, and we see it every year around the deadline that most teams will use their 1st round picks on more proven established players.

For example would we have been more happy trading Paul for Joseph (before we knew what he can do), or Paul for a 1st round pick? Now hindsight might blur things if this question was asked in the present, but I would say most Senators fans would have taken the 1st rounder over Mathieu Joseph.

I don't disagree with any of this. Teams don't target this kind of player because their actual value might be more than they would want to pay or teams who have them don't want to trade them at their current price because they think they have more upside. And like you said, teams at the deadline target experience too.

Like you say, there needs to be a specific context for a trade like this to happen. The goal here was to evaluate Formenton's trade value. The point is that if you're trying to buy me Alex Formenton at 2nd round pick value, then go **** yourself (not saying that to you of course, but by experience I want to make sure you know!)

Good question about Joseph. He's 25 years old so he certainly had less value than when he was 22 y/o (although he was not as highly regarded as Formenton as a prospect)

Formenton is still quite young, if you add 25 lbs of muscle on his frame who knows what he could turn into. I just don't think we know how good he could be. While most people, me included, sometimes consider him a 3rd line forward, he has excelled playing on the 2nd line & on the PK. Again nobody knows what he could become, but it's certainly trending in the right direction. IMO he is just gettng started.

Totally agree but I can't see him scoring 52 goals like Kreider just did. He's 30 y/o and his highest total was 28 goals. Nobody expected that. I'd take pre-2021 Kreider for Formenton! Still a beast

 

[JD1]

92 to 1

You should get infracted for such a poll

 

[Micklebot]

92 to 1

You should get infracted for such a poll

The one appears to be a visiting leafs fan...

 

[Sun God Nika]

Closed for lopsided result

 

[lancepitlick]

I would think about it, but not to use the draft pick. My only rationale would be if I could flip that same pick for someone better than Formenton and still young-ish.

Say I could trade it for a top 4 D or Top 6 forward, along with a 4th or something.

 

[SpezDispenser]

You'd be a fool to trade him for a late first and your opinion shouldn't matter from here on in.

 

[Xspyrit]

I would think about it, but not to use the draft pick. My only rationale would be if I could flip that same pick for someone better than Formenton and still young-ish.

Say I could trade it for a top 4 D or Top 6 forward, along with a 4th or something.

The context was in a trade for a Top-6 forward. Depending on who that player is, his age/contract then I could be open to trade Formenton at 1st round value but basically been called a homer since I wouldn't trade him at 2nd round pick value. lol