Would implementing "hybrid offside" make hockey better?

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  1. LatvianTwist

    LatvianTwist Global Moderator

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    I've had an idea about changing the offside rule for a while now - I can't remember exactly when I first had it, and I may have seen it somewhere else. If this has been proposed before, feel free to post a source so it can get credit.

    Essentially, what I am proposing is a dynamic blue-line, very similar to offside in soccer. The offside line would no longer always be the blue-line, but would instead be a line parallel to the blue-line located where the furthest back defender is. The exception is when no defenders are in their own defensive zone - in this case, the offside line is still the blue-line.

    The main reasoning for this would be to help increase offensive scoring chances, zone entry creativity, and prevent plays from being called back simply because a player is a fraction of a second off in their timing. Players would no longer have to really worry about straddling the blue-line to stay onside, for instance. It would also give teams much more room to break into the offensive zone. Instead of the defense sitting at the blue-line and either breaking up zone entry attempts or forcing teams offside, defenders would have to decide whether to stand their ground and potentially get blown past or continue backing up and let the offensive team establish control. The powerplay would be especially affected by this. I think the rest of this can be deduced - there are a lot of fine details that could be thought up. Ultimately, I think it would add more strategy to the game and also give more of a reward to creativity and skill.

    I also would like to see that offside no longer be a play that can be challenged. Especially with this change, it would be somewhat arbitrary and subjective - two things that should be avoided when it comes to rules and decisions about enforcing them. I would lean toward refs letting the play continue in a close-to-offside scenario, erring on the side of caution.

    I can't think of too many drawbacks honestly, other than adding a bit more subjectivity to the on-ice calls the refs have to make. But they already have that with offside as is, and a very similar decision for refs to make was introduced with hybrid icing. I don't think it's too complicated in any way - soccer handles it very well. If there are any pitfalls that I'm simply missing, I'd love to hear about them.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. ZeroPucksGiven

    ZeroPucksGiven Registered User

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    I HATE HATE HATE the offsides in soccer, but I understand where you are coming from with this idea and thought about changing the off sides rule and improvements.

    I would propose more of a judgement system like icing in that linesmen have to make a decision whether the play is in the spirit of the rule.

    For instance if I have the puck and my teammate is still in the zone but he's coming toward the blueline, I can legally enter but I would not be able to pass it to him unless he's tagged up.

    Also would propose a legal action if am carrying the puck and my teammate is straddling the line and going parallel to the blue line, making a concerted effort to be out of the zone. I feel play should continue without a whistle (again this would require some discretion from the linesman) .

    Feel like these changes would eliminate a ton of whistles and still fall within the spirit of the "no cherry picking" intent as the rule was first created.
     
  3. TheForsbergShow

    TheForsbergShow Registered User

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    It is an interesting idea, would be cool to see in action on just how much it changes things.

    The only thing though is with soccer the pitch is so large that using players as the offside line isn't so bad and defenders still have a chance to defend. With hockey they are moving at such a fast pace and on a smaller surface that it might make things almost too fast and near impossible to defend with guys like Mack now potentially getting extra space to just come flying in 20(or whatever) feet from the net and receiving a pass.
     
  4. Viqsi

    Viqsi thirtysomething grumpy grandma

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    I assume you'd have it set up such that once the puck crosses the blue line into the offensive zone, one still has to "reset" to get back onside (you just wouldn't have to skate out as far), because otherwise there would 1) be essentially no neutral zone anymore and 2) extremely reduced behind-the-net play because no offensive player would ever be able to possess the puck there without a defenseman against the boards.
     
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  5. Gary 23

    Gary 23 Registered User

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    Maybe we could make the lines blurry so no one has to follow the rules. Football could award 6 points for “close enough”. Baseball could call a home run if it hits the top half of the wall. Basketball could continue to go **** itself, but give points for hitting the rim.
     
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  6. Windy River

    Windy River Registered User

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    I think if the offside challenge were eliminated it would help alot.
     
  7. triggrman

    triggrman Registered User

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    no dramatic changes are needed
     
  8. cgf

    cgf FireBednarsSuccessor

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    My proposal would be to let teams carry the puck in while offside and pass it in if they’ve already exited their own blueline.

    But this could be interesting to. Would love to see the AHL test out either change
     
  9. hatterson

    hatterson Registered User

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    My biggest issue with it is that it's gimmicky and seems to be a solution in search of a problem. The problem with offside right now isn't where the line is, it's how exact the calls are expected to be and how long the replays take.

    My other issue would be the case of a player being "trapped" offside. In soccer if a player is in an offside position (past the second to last player/last defender besides the goalie) he can just walk back onside and play continues without him. In fact he's not offside until he personally becomes involved in the play. In hockey the same doesn't hold and a player standing in an offside position but not attempting to play the puck or be involved in the play. It still stops the entire play leading to a defenseman being able to easily stop moving backward/step up and draw a call.

    That also ties into the key difference between soccer offside and hockey which makes the "last back" line not translate well. In soccer, offside is judged at the moment the pass is made from a teammate, whereas in hockey it's judged when the puck crosses the line. Imagine sending a breakaway pass to a player who is onside when you make it, but by the time it gets to him the defender has skated forward and put him offside.

    Seems like it'd be a giant mess to actually enforce in a remotely consistent manner.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018
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  10. Jigger77

    Jigger77 Registered User

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    I say this with all due respect, but please stop messing with our game.
     
  11. hatterson

    hatterson Registered User

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    You don't even need to eliminate it, just make two simple changes:

    1.) The players skate on or off the ice doesn't matter. Treat the blue line like the NFL goal line for offside.

    2.) For replays, it's all done in Toronto and there's a maximum of 10 seconds to review and replays must be at full speed. If it's not obviously offside, the call on the ice stands.
     
  12. CantLoseWithMatthews

    CantLoseWithMatthews Registered User

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    The first thing is that offside challenges have to go. It's ridiculous to watch what linesmen consider offside now that they're worried about the challenge.
     
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  13. pucka lucka

    pucka lucka Registered User

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    I think you could remove offside entirely except for multi-zone passes. This would eliminate hail mary passes to cherry picking forwards e.g. something similar to the old 2 line pass except the lines used would be different. I would think a thin line across the top of the circles would work...
     
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  14. SI90

    SI90 Registered User

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    Interesting but just wouldn’t feel like hockey.
     
  15. Saltcreek

    Saltcreek Registered User

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    No, just hell no. This would slow the game down more than speed it up and it would be really hard to officiate. There are enough missed calls right now and if the refs would have to concentrate on the watching the furthest defender to determine offsides it would only make it worse.
     
  16. Tweaky

    Tweaky Solid #2

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    Get rid of the red line and offside, go to own-blue line icing, and bring back the two (blue) line pass. Completely change the way the game flows :)
     
  17. Doohickie

    Doohickie Ft Worth (from Bflo)

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    I like this concept; currently, the whole team has to be tagged up. If they did it player by player though I think it could potentially be difficult for the linesman to keep track of all the players. It might be something to try in preseason to see how it works.
     
  18. gsx capsfan

    gsx capsfan Registered User

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    The only thing I'd change about offside, is that you must be touching the ice. I would propose that if the players body part is over the line, even in the air, he should be deemed onside.

    I've also seen proposals to making the red line the line that must be cleared to put a team offside one the offensive zone has been gained. I like this idea, it would open up the offensive zone more, to creative plays.
     
  19. girlfriend haver

    girlfriend haver Registered User

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    Attacking players should be allowed to cross the blueline the moment the puck touches the blueline. Also, the bluelines should be thicker on both sides

    You will get less offside calls with these changes
     
  20. MadLuke

    MadLuke Registered User

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    There is an important aspect to the offside rules that help augment the offense quite a bit that is risky to loose.

    A team need to "hold the line" to keep the play alive defenceman have a big incentive to play quite offensively and take big risk at keeping the pucks in the offensive zone, if you make the blueline way thicker or any change to this a team with the lead or even at equal score will often choose to make their defense play farther from the opposing net and will have a smaller cost at playing it way safer, making turnover less costly and so on.

    I am not sure that removing that part of the offside rules, the need to hold the zone, would augment offense, it risk to augment defense. The part where you do not create offside went entering would obviously augment offensive opportunity too.
     
  21. dangsLITE

    dangsLITE Registered User

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    As much as I hate offside challenges, I think there is something to be said about teams and players who are able to get the puck into the zone without going offsides as well as defensemen (or any player at the point) who are capable of holding the puck in at their offensive blueline (especially on power plays). These are not sexy skills, but they are essential to the game.

    It is unclear to me how you are proposing to change determine offsides when it is the scenario when the puck coming out of the zone with the entire team already in. The defensemen on the other team would presumably be at near the goal line thus everyone would probably still be onside.
     
  22. Damien Dahrk

    Damien Dahrk *Darhk

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    I like the concept, but I think hockey is too fast for it to work. I believe the rule should be kept the same, but it doesn't have to be called as tightly as it is. Let the linesmen have a little bit of leeway.

    Most importantly, get rid of the offside challenge!
     
  23. Monsieur Gustave H

    Monsieur Gustave H Coming Home

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    Hockey moves way too fast for this IMO.
     
  24. Damien Dahrk

    Damien Dahrk *Darhk

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    I just prefer they get rid of the challenge. The one problem with your first point, I think it'd make it harder for the linesmen to call it.
     
  25. tsujimoto74

    tsujimoto74 Moderator

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    Amen. Skate on the ice rule is dumb, and if it takes 4 minutes for you to decide a player was, in fact, offside by a fraction of an inch, who cares? That 1/4" wasn't the difference between the offensive team scoring or not.
     

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