Worst Jets GM

[WolfHouse]

But Hawerchuk wanted out. We got Housley, Arniel and Tkachuk essentially for Hawerchuk who wanted to leave, and Brad May. I'd do that deal any day especially knowing the chemistry Selanne had with Housley and Tkachuk.

Hawerchuk wanted out because of Murdoch - Murdoch won the Jack Adams on Hawerchuk's back and then proceeded to torpedo our 3-1 playoff lead by playing Beauregard 'to be fair' to both goalies.
Murdoch was a lot like Maurice - had a talented roster and all-star goalie and his coaching hurt us more than helped. Smith siding with Murdoch over Hawerchuk was clueless.
There was no turnaround - the next season we flopped.
It seems like you weren't at the games... maybe you're too young to remember what actually happened I don't know.

 

[Jet]

Hawerchuk wanted out because of Murdoch - Murdoch won the Jack Adams on Hawerchuk's back and then proceeded to torpedo our 3-1 playoff lead by playing Beauregard 'to be fair' to both goalies.
Murdoch was a lot like Maurice - had a talented roster and all-star goalie and his coaching hurt us more than helped. Smith siding with Murdoch over Hawerchuk was clueless.
There was no turnaround - the next season we flopped.
It seems like you weren't at the games... maybe you're too young to remember what actually happened I don't know.

Nice try. I was very much alive and there.

You can keep shifting your argument every time I shoot it down but you're still not right.

Murdoch reduced Hawerchuks ice time by 12 minutes a game, doesn't sound like he was winning anything off Dales back. He introduced a balanced attack with more even minutes. Even Hawerchuk credited murdoch with turning the team around.

 

[Al Camino]

Despite Ulanovs name soemtimes coming up to disparage Smith, I'd put him up there as one of the best draft picks done under Smith. Got him in the 10th round and he ended up playing in over 750 NHL games.

But yeah I'd put Smith as the worst with Paddock second.

Even if Paddock was required to move one of Tkachuck or Selanne. He picked the wrong one to move, and got far too little in return. Although at the time I was happy in that Selanne would never play for the evil Coyotes.

Smith had the worst draft pick in Jets history. Paddock made the worst trade.

In Paddock's defense the new owners told him he had to move one of those guys and Tverdovsky and Kilger were top 4 picks. But yeah that one ended not very good.

 

[Al Camino]

Though, Mike Milbury will give him a run for 'worst GM in NHL history'. Smith was definitely the worst GM in Jets history, imo.

I'm going to go with Milbury on this one since he lost every trade he ever made and drafted Rick Dipetro first because he was the best puck handling goalie of all time.

 

[Scheifele55]

In Paddock's defense the new owners told him he had to move one of those guys and Tverdovsky and Kilger were top 4 picks. But yeah that one ended not very good.

Hindsight is definite 20:20 as Tverdovsky and Kilger could have turned into a Spezza/Chara quality player (like the Senators did when they dealt Yashin). I wonder how much the narrative would have changed had Tverdovsky turned into a Lidstrom quality dman and Kilger a Ron Francis quality centre.

 

[WolfHouse]

Nice try. I was very much alive and there.

You can keep shifting your argument every time I shoot it down but you're still not right.

Murdoch reduced Hawerchuks ice time by 12 minutes a game, doesn't sound like he was winning anything off Dales back. He introduced a balanced attack with more even minutes. Even Hawerchuk credited murdoch with turning the team around.

Sure thing - I’m not sure what shifted about smith choosing Murdoch over hawerchuk. But you keep arguing whatever point you’re trying to make.

hawerchuk still played 20’mins a game in that season - you’re claiming he was playing 32 minutes a game before that cmon. Ridiculous.

 

[Jet]

Sure thing - I’m not sure what shifted about smith choosing Murdoch over hawerchuk. But you keep arguing whatever point you’re trying to make.

hawerchuk still played 20’mins a game in that season - you’re claiming he was playing 32 minutes a game before that cmon. Ridiculous.

Sigh - from this very thread (thanks @cbcwpg )

STARTING OVER: SABRES' HAWERCHUK NO LONGER THE CENTER OF ATTENTION HIGH-SCORING VET HAD HOCKEY IN MIND SINCE HE WAS A BOY | Latest Headlines | buffalonews.com

"He came in with a completely new system," Hawerchuk said. "And it worked. We had a pretty good year last year (85 points), but he reduced my ice time significantly. I went from 30 minutes a game to 15-16. I wasn't ready for that role at the age of 27. Maybe if I was 32. I didn't want to cause any waves, but I thought it was time to move on."

The Jets say Hawerchuk averaged 19.5 minutes of ice time last season, the most in Murdoch's balanced attack. Whatever the case, it was a lot less than usual. Hawerchuk slipped to a career-low 81 points, and he admits his loss of desire for the game had something to do with it.

"I didn't feel we were going about it the right way," he said. "So something had to give. I felt I was beating my head against the wall at times."

What shifted about choosing Murdoch over Hawerchuk:

Year before Murdoch:
1986 26-47-7 Lost First Round (Won 0 Rounds)
Murdoch's first season as Jets HC:
1987 40-32-8 Lost Conference Semi-Finals (Won 1 Round)

1987 Jack Campbell winner: Bob Murdoch.

Smith chose the coach over the player because the coach orchestrated a 29 point improvement and added playoff $$$ to the franchises coffers, a franchise that was struggling financially.

What GM would fire a Jack Adams winner?

 

[WolfHouse]

Sigh - from this very thread (thanks @cbcwpg )

STARTING OVER: SABRES' HAWERCHUK NO LONGER THE CENTER OF ATTENTION HIGH-SCORING VET HAD HOCKEY IN MIND SINCE HE WAS A BOY | Latest Headlines | buffalonews.com

"He came in with a completely new system," Hawerchuk said. "And it worked. We had a pretty good year last year (85 points), but he reduced my ice time significantly. I went from 30 minutes a game to 15-16. I wasn't ready for that role at the age of 27. Maybe if I was 32. I didn't want to cause any waves, but I thought it was time to move on."

The Jets say Hawerchuk averaged 19.5 minutes of ice time last season, the most in Murdoch's balanced attack. Whatever the case, it was a lot less than usual. Hawerchuk slipped to a career-low 81 points, and he admits his loss of desire for the game had something to do with it.

"I didn't feel we were going about it the right way," he said. "So something had to give. I felt I was beating my head against the wall at times."

What shifted about choosing Murdoch over Hawerchuk:

Year before Murdoch:
1986 26-47-7 Lost First Round (Won 0 Rounds)
Murdoch's first season as Jets HC:
1987 40-32-8 Lost Conference Semi-Finals (Won 1 Round)

1987 Jack Campbell winner: Bob Murdoch.

Smith chose the coach over the player because the coach orchestrated a 29 point improvement and added playoff $$$ to the franchises coffers, a franchise that was struggling financially.

What GM would fire a Jack Adams winner?

That’s a nice quote but the stars say he was getting 19-20 mins a game. And no, hawerchuk - whatever his perception was - was not playing over 50% of the game.

smith decided to side with his coach instead of resolve things or make them fix things.

What GM would trade his star player over a coach is a better question?

 

[Jet]

That’s a nice quote but the stars say he was getting 19-20 mins a game. And no, hawerchuk - whatever his perception was - was not playing over 50% of the game.

smith decided to side with his coach instead of resolve things or make them fix things.

What GM would trade his star player over a coach is a better question?

Hawerchuk asked for a trade. Smith facilitated the trade and despite the entire league knowing Hawerchuk wanted out, it's not a stretch to say he won the trade.

Please give me one example in the history of the NHL where a Jack Adams winner was fired at the start of the season after he won the award for Coach of the Year. I can provide a ton of examples of GM's who traded their star players because they asked for it. Good ones, too.

 

[WolfHouse]

Hawerchuk asked for a trade. Smith facilitated the trade and despite the entire league knowing Hawerchuk wanted out, it's not a stretch to say he won the trade.

Please give me one example in the history of the NHL where a Jack Adams winner was fired at the start of the season after he won the award for Coach of the Year. I can provide a ton of examples of GM's who traded their star players because they asked for it. Good ones, too.

Read your own article - hawerchuk hated Mike smith as much as bob murdoch - last gm to trade his star player because his coach asked him to
Was CBJ and we all see how that’s working out - torts won the jack adams too

anyway I’m okay you don’t have to provide examples - mike smith was a great GM

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Paddock trading Teemu still hurts my soul to this day so in my opinion him, but I think Mike Smith owns the title of this thread.

Chevy has done a good job, even though I'm still upset about his role with the Blackhawks defending Aldrich. Wondering if I should give him a second chance as I understand it wasn't his call.

 

[Jet]

Read your own article - hawerchuk hated Mike smith as much as bob murdoch - last gm to trade his star player because his coach asked him to
Was CBJ and we all see how that’s working out - torts won the jack adams too

anyway I’m okay you don’t have to provide examples - mike smith was a great GM

Ahhh I love it when someone misrepresents their debate opponent's position at the end as some kind of crowning achievement.

I never once said Smith was a great GM. I was simply pointing out that he did a lot of very good things, both as the director of scouting and the GM. I also wanted to underline that he was tasked with trying to be competitive whilst having pennies on the dollar compared to his counterparts.

He made some bad moves, surely. How many of those were driven by his need to try to make diamonds out of turds?

 

[razorsedge]

He absolutely did not chase Hawerchuk out. Hawerchuk wanted out because Bob Murdoch severely reduced his icetime. Dale asked for a trade because of that, and he's on the record for saying it.

Man - there are a lot of fallacies running around in this thread.

I've seen interviews of him saying Mike Smith is the reason he left.

 

[Jet]

I've seen interviews of him saying Mike Smith is the reason he left.

Sweet, can you find those?

I have a quote of him saying it was Murdochs usage.

 

[10Ducky10]

Smith AINEC.

 

[WolfHouse]

Ahhh I love it when someone misrepresents their debate opponent's position at the end as some kind of crowning achievement.

I never once said Smith was a great GM. I was simply pointing out that he did a lot of very good things, both as the director of scouting and the GM. I also wanted to underline that he was tasked with trying to be competitive whilst having pennies on the dollar compared to his counterparts.

He made some bad moves, surely. How many of those were driven by his need to try to make diamonds out of turds?

How did mike smith have less $$ than paddock or Ferguson? Smith gave ysebart $800k - ownership must have approved that

anyway I’m not arguing that any GM of Jets 1.0
Was good or even average - mike smith did not turn anything around - the team was erratic and had massive holes for his whole tenure

 

[razorsedge]

Sweet, can you find those?

I have a quote of him saying it was Murdochs usage.

Nope. But they are out there.

 

[cbcwpg]

I've seen interviews of him saying Mike Smith is the reason he left.

"In my era, there were two Winnipegs," Hawerchuk told torontosun.com.

"There was the John Ferguson era, which was positive, upbeat, a really community driven team. And then the Mike Smith era, which was negative and pessimistic. That ran through the media.

"Mike Smith did a good job bringing in some talent, but I don't think the same community spirit was there.

"A lot of those guys would just go back to Europe or wherever they were from. Early on, when I played there there were probably a dozen of us who lived there year round.

"I thought I'd be a Winnipeg Jet forever, but at the end Mike pretty much made it impossible for me to really push forward with my career there."

 

[Jet]

"In my era, there were two Winnipegs," Hawerchuk told torontosun.com.

"There was the John Ferguson era, which was positive, upbeat, a really community driven team. And then the Mike Smith era, which was negative and pessimistic. That ran through the media.

"Mike Smith did a good job bringing in some talent, but I don't think the same community spirit was there.

"A lot of those guys would just go back to Europe or wherever they were from. Early on, when I played there there were probably a dozen of us who lived there year round.

"I thought I'd be a Winnipeg Jet forever, but at the end Mike pretty much made it impossible for me to really push forward with my career there."

Thanks for this. I hadn't heard this quote before.

Obviously Smith was no GM of the year candidate, I just wanted to bring some facts to the discussion as there were a bunch of inferences and kind of like what we do here with players, if they aren't liked, they aren't really given any credit for the good things they did.

I think Smith had the right idea in looking for talent in places other teams weren't to try and get a competitive advantage with the team's self imposed cap, but the execution was lacking. He was probably promoted to GM simply because he was successful as a scout. We have tons of people in our company that get promoted to the next level because they excel at the previous one, but the skillsets are very different so you see them flounder.

 

[cbcwpg]

Thanks for this. I hadn't heard this quote before.

Obviously Smith was no GM of the year candidate, I just wanted to bring some facts to the discussion as there were a bunch of inferences and kind of like what we do here with players, if they aren't liked, they aren't really given any credit for the good things they did.

I think Smith had the right idea in looking for talent in places other teams weren't to try and get a competitive advantage with the team's self imposed cap, but the execution was lacking. He was probably promoted to GM simply because he was successful as a scout. We have tons of people in our company that get promoted to the next level because they excel at the previous one, but the skillsets are very different so you see them flounder.

I'm trying to dig up any articles on this, but one thing I heard was Smith was hired as the GM after he went behind Fergy's back directly to Shenkarow, and convinced him to fire Fergy.

From the book "When the Final Buzzer Sounds"

The bitter turn of events was repeated in Winnipeg nine years later. But this time the betrayal was perpetuated not by an obvious foe such as Gilbert but by Mike Smith, whom Ferguson had first hired in New York and had groomed as his assistant in Winnipeg. The duplicitous assistant convinced team owner Barry Shenkarow, a one-time business partner of Ferguson's, that Fergy was no longer right for the job, and Shenkarow fired the man who had led the Jets from the WHA to the NHL.

 

[Al Camino]

Hindsight is definite 20:20 as Tverdovsky and Kilger could have turned into a Spezza/Chara quality player (like the Senators did when they dealt Yashin). I wonder how much the narrative would have changed had Tverdovsky turned into a Lidstrom quality dman and Kilger a Ron Francis quality centre.

I saw Tverdovsky play one of his 7 games for the Wheat Kings that year. Made like a 90 foot pass on tape for a break away goal. Thought he was going to the next great dman.

 

[Jets4Life]

Hawerchuk wanted out because of Murdoch - Murdoch won the Jack Adams on Hawerchuk's back and then proceeded to torpedo our 3-1 playoff lead by playing Beauregard 'to be fair' to both goalies.
Murdoch was a lot like Maurice - had a talented roster and all-star goalie and his coaching hurt us more than helped. Smith siding with Murdoch over Hawerchuk was clueless.
There was no turnaround - the next season we flopped.
It seems like you weren't at the games... maybe you're too young to remember what actually happened I don't know.

For unknown reasons, Smith always hated Hawerchuk, going back to when he was drafted in 1981. Smith told Hawerchuk that if it were up to him, he would have picked Bobby Carpenter. Hawerchuk has stated numerous times on record that he wanted to retire in Winnipeg. Once Mike Smith took over as GM in the fall of 88, his days in Winnipeg were numbered. I think having to play for Murdock as coach was the final straw for Ducky.

 

[Jets4Life]

Paddock trading Teemu still hurts my soul to this day so in my opinion him, but I think Mike Smith owns the title of this thread.

In fairness to Paddock, he really had no say in the trade. The new American owners made it clear that they didn't want to pay out two huge contract, and chose to keep Tkachuk. Their reasoning at the time was that Tkachuk was an easier sell to the Phoenix market as the face of the franchise, considering he was an American from Boston, and spoke perfect English. There also were concerns about Selanne's knees, and if they would hold up. There was a feeling that he would be out of hockey by his early 30's (just like Pavel Bure).

Chevy has done a good job, even though I'm still upset about his role with the Blackhawks defending Aldrich. Wondering if I should give him a second chance as I understand it wasn't his call.

I'll play devil's advocate here, and say there was not realistically anything Chevy could have done. He was a relatively low man on a totem pole, and was new in his role as the Blackhawks Assistant GM. Chevy could have voiced his displeasure with the Aldrich situation and demanded an internal investigation, but he probably would have been overruled by the higher ups, and it may hindered his career.

 

[Jets4Life]

What shifted about choosing Murdoch over Hawerchuk:

Year before Murdoch:
1986 26-47-7 Lost First Round (Won 0 Rounds)
Murdoch's first season as Jets HC:
1987 40-32-8 Lost Conference Semi-Finals (Won 1 Round)

1987 Jack Campbell winner: Bob Murdoch.

Smith chose the coach over the player because the coach orchestrated a 29 point improvement and added playoff $$$ to the franchises coffers, a franchise that was struggling financially.

What GM would fire a Jack Adams winner?

I think you may be getting Murdoch mixed up with Dan Maloney, who was hired by the Jets in the role of coach for the 1986-87 season. Murdoch was not hired by Winnipeg until 1989.

 

[Jet]

I think you may be getting Murdoch mixed up with Dan Maloney, who was hired by the Jets in the role of coach for the 1986-87 season. Murdoch was not hired by Winnipeg until 1989.

Yeah I think I got the years mixed up but I do know the timeline was Murdoch won the Jack Adams in his first year, which was Hawerchuks last, and the year his ice time was significantly reduced