World Series: Mets vs Royals - Part 2

[BMOK33]

terry collins.....wow what a disaster, i had no problem with him letting harvey start the 9th but as soon as he walked the leadoff batter with hosmer coming up i was yelling at the tv to pull him, that was a clear cut sign that harvey was fading, the numbers on pitchers after 100 pitches speak for themselves, you can't give them any rope there

but the royals were the better team it must make SABR people sick that ned yost won a world series, a year after nearly winning it before but they'll find a way to discredit him somehow

I thought for sure after the NLCS Collins was coming back next year but now I would not be surprised if he isn't. That was a pretty bad series by him although it probably didn't matter in the end result. I told everyone going to the 9th tonight they were toast in game 6 because they still weren't hitting. Had they scored 7 or 8 tonight I would have felt somewhat better knowing maybe they could beat Cueto and Ventura up. Bottom line is DeGrom would have had to been Jesus in game 6 had they gotten there

 

[Brunomics]

And that's how you give away a world series. Three blown saves. They beat themselves.... Pathetic.

 

[BMOK33]

And that's how you give away a world series. Three blown saves. They beat themselves.... Pathetic.

One blown save in my mind. I'm not even sure how they can give a pitcher a blown save off of an error but they did officially 2 nights in a row.

 

[GKJ]

Familia's 3 "blown saves" has to be the most odd stat of this series. 2 were a direct result result of errors and he allowed only 2 hits in the 1.2 innings he pitched in those last 2 games

Next time around, I bet that's a huge narrative for him, which is a shame.

 

[darko]

A lot of above average hitters and fielders. A solid rotation and a beyond great bullpen. Speed on the bases. They have it all.

Above average fielders is a bit of an understatement IMO. They've got very good defensive players throughout the lineup.

 

[darko]

They always do when the visiting team wins.

Unless you are Dodgers and clinch the division in Arizona.

 

[darko]

So are you 3 people? Or a person and a half with the other fan being half a person?

Boston Bob is only half a man.

 

[Brunomics]

One blown save in my mind. I'm not even sure how they can give a pitcher a blown save off of an error but they did officially 2 nights in a row.

They lost those games as a team. I don't directly blame Familia for the last two blown saves.

 

[Number 57]

When the ball bounces off of d'Arnaud's glove Hosmer isn't even in the picture yet. It should have been a routine throw from first to home. They didn't even need a good throw from Duda, basically anything catchable and Hosmer is out with ease.

I have to agree here. The broadcasters were saying how it was an amazing base-running by Hosmer, but the truth is on any play like this with the easy throw to 1st and then to the catcher, there is not a runner fast enough to run from 3rd to home plate without getting thrown out by the 1st baseman.

It was a suicide play by Hosmer trying to force something in the 9th with his team down. He forced Duda into throwing under pressure but if Duda would have just focused a little more that is an easy out at the plate.

Hosmer was lucky Duda threw wild.

Who here can honestly say with a straight face the runner at 3rd can reach homeplate on an in-field hit where the infielder has the ball and is throwing at 1st? 1st baseman throws him out afterwards 10 times out of 10.

 

[Foppa]

If the Hosmer run was a one-off gamble (and yes, he should have been out by a mile) I would say of course, it was absolutely pure luck.

But for better or worse (and mostly better this post-season) - the Royals' almost suicidal aggressiveness is simply built into their consciousness - and, it must be said, is absolutely in the domes of their opponents. Truth be told, this was not the classically "clean" series you expect from the Royals...the "they do all the little things right and don't beat themselves" kind of series. It wasn't that at all. There were all kinds of Royals blunders...Hosmer multiple brain cramps in the field, Rios not knowing how many outs there were, absurd bunt attempts by Cain and Esky. But Yost let's the guys do what they do and the guys pick themselves up after mistakes knowing that everybody in that clubhouse has their backs and knowing with a kind of belief that can only be instilled by repeated comebacks that staying aggressive, even if it doesn't work all the time, is the way they can win.

Is it purely luck that nobody is surprised Hosmer scored? Is it purely luck that a play made 10 times out of 10 isn't made and yet you were totally not surprised it wasn't in this case? This was not a Mets infield known for defensive prowess in the regular season. They had already melted down in the World Series under the pressure of the bright lights and the Royals' relentlessness. Brilliant baserunning? Of course not. But something more than blind luck? I would say so.

 

[robert terwilliger]

it was scouting. mccullough tweeted that the royals' advanced scouts told them to run all day on duda.

wright made the wrong play and it forced duda's hand. that play isn't nearly as cut and dry as you guys are making it out to be. a first baseman doesn't throw home often through the season and even less often in a hurry. when you combine that with duda's incompetence as a fielder it only magnifies it.

wright looked hosmer back twice...but flores hadn't made the bag yet and hosmer knew it. wright had to get the out and would have to turn his back on hosmer to complete the throw...instead of letting flores make the play.

wright's throw wasn't hard. his arm seemed to die as the season went on.

duda had to catch, step and throw, something that he's probably not done in months and is also something that even competent first basemen struggle with: making a good throw to your catcher that allows him to tag the runner out.

the more i see it, the more i agree with joe sheehan: this was a case like cain's winning run in the alcs. the royals knew that bautista would not think cain was going to score, that he would get the ball in quickly and get it to second to keep the double play in order.

the same thing happened here. hosmer read wright correctly. wright looked him back twice but had nobody at third to throw behind hosmer and had to get the out. wright made a good, not great throw, which forced the hand of the duda's defensive inadequacies. hosmer knew that as wright had cut the ball off, wright's back was going to turn when he made the throw and hosmer took off, knowing that duda had to make a play that he was incapable of making.

it's just outstanding baserunning brought out by advanced scouting. the royals knew the mets better than the mets knew themselves.

 

[Foppa]

And it was there the chaos truly started to unfold. Familia’s 96-mph sinker turned Salvador Perez’s bat into kindling. The ball came off his bat at 43 mph, the single slowest ball in play in the series. It bounced in front of third baseman David Wright, who corralled it. He looked at Hosmer to keep him at third before throwing to get the out at first. As Wright pivoted to make his throw, Hosmer started to run.

It conjured memories of 2014, of the seventh game in the World Series against the San Francisco Giants, when with two outs in the ninth inning Alex Gordon stopped at third base on a misplay. Even a halfway decent relay home would have nabbed him by 20 feet. It was the right play. That didn’t lessen the pain when Perez popped out.

Deep down, Hosmer remembered this. And he knew that despite the Royals touching up Familia twice, banking on Gordon, standing in the on-deck circle, for a two-out, game-tying hit, was folly. And he’d heard, before the series began, that Wright’s arm is weaker than it used to be and that first baseman Lucas Duda was susceptible to aggressive baserunning. As Yost said: “Make them beat us.”

Really, though, this was Hosmer’s instinct. He grew up in a Royals organization that preached aggressiveness. Kansas City talked about pinch running for Hosmer with the speedier Jarrod Dyson but trusted Hosmer to make the right decision. As he left, Hosmer feared he hadn’t.

“When I first decided to go home, I thought it was a big mistake,” Hosmer said. “But I couldn’t turn back at that point. You’ve got to just figure out a way to get there.”

Gordon saw the play unfolding and thought to himself: “Crap.” A great throw from Duda nails Hosmer, ends the game and sends the series back to Kansas City. A good throw is a bang-bang play, a 50/50 proposition. The throw from Duda was neither. It sailed out of catcher Travis d’Arnaud’s reach and to the backstop, and the headfirst-sliding Hosmer tied the game. He popped off the ground, his uniform dirtied just as his coaches like it, and emitted a giant, “Wooooo!”, audible even amid the boos of a deflated, disconsolate Citi Field.

“That’s just the way we’ve been doing it all year,” Hosmer said. “We’ve been taking chances.”

 

[Swervin81]

it was scouting. mccullough tweeted that the royals' advanced scouts told them to run all day on duda.

wright made the wrong play and it forced duda's hand. that play isn't nearly as cut and dry as you guys are making it out to be. a first baseman doesn't throw home often through the season and even less often in a hurry. when you combine that with duda's incompetence as a fielder it only magnifies it.

wright looked hosmer back twice...but flores hadn't made the bag yet and hosmer knew it. wright had to get the out and would have to turn his back on hosmer to complete the throw...instead of letting flores make the play.

wright's throw wasn't hard. his arm seemed to die as the season went on.

duda had to catch, step and throw, something that he's probably not done in months and is also something that even competent first basemen struggle with: making a good throw to your catcher that allows him to tag the runner out.

the more i see it, the more i agree with joe sheehan: this was a case like cain's winning run in the alcs. the royals knew that bautista would not think cain was going to score, that he would get the ball in quickly and get it to second to keep the double play in order.

the same thing happened here. hosmer read wright correctly. wright looked him back twice but had nobody at third to throw behind hosmer and had to get the out. wright made a good, not great throw, which forced the hand of the duda's defensive inadequacies. hosmer knew that as wright had cut the ball off, wright's back was going to turn when he made the throw and hosmer took off, knowing that duda had to make a play that he was incapable of making.

it's just outstanding baserunning brought out by advanced scouting. the royals knew the mets better than the mets knew themselves.

Don't forget them knowing when Price would throw his changeup by how he exhaled prior to the pitch. Like, that's insane.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

it was scouting. mccullough tweeted that the royals' advanced scouts told them to run all day on duda.

wright's throw wasn't hard. his arm seemed to die as the season went on.

it's just outstanding baserunning brought out by advanced scouting. the royals knew the mets better than the mets knew themselves.

...He’d heard, before the series began, that Wright’s arm is weaker than it used to be and that first baseman Lucas Duda was susceptible to aggressive baserunning.

Don't forget them knowing when Price would throw his changeup by how he exhaled prior to the pitch. Like, that's insane.

This is the kind of stuff that makes baseball so fantastic.

 

[Virtanen18]

Baserunning wins championships.

 

[Hockeyfan02]

I'm happy to see Zobrist get a ring after all he did here in Tampa and Cain is becoming one of my favorite players to watch. Didn't like some of the antics pulled by the Royals during the season, but I'm a big fan of how they continue to put pressure on teams throughout the game and never give up. With a sport like baseball it's silly to say one game changed a team, but that wild card game last year was the turning point for them. They probably win last year too if they'd faced anyone other than Baumgarner.

Agree with most here, I liked Collins letting Harvey try to finish it but he should've been out of the game at the first sign of trouble. Heck of a run by the Mets, don't think we've seen the last of them with what they've got in their rotation for the foreseeable future.

 

[Del Preston]

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Unless you are bludgeoning the Royals late in the game, this is pretty much how I feel about it.

 

[BMOK33]

And it was there the chaos truly started to unfold. Familia’s 96-mph sinker turned Salvador Perez’s bat into kindling. The ball came off his bat at 43 mph, the single slowest ball in play in the series. It bounced in front of third baseman David Wright, who corralled it. He looked at Hosmer to keep him at third before throwing to get the out at first. As Wright pivoted to make his throw, Hosmer started to run.

It conjured memories of 2014, of the seventh game in the World Series against the San Francisco Giants, when with two outs in the ninth inning Alex Gordon stopped at third base on a misplay. Even a halfway decent relay home would have nabbed him by 20 feet. It was the right play. That didn’t lessen the pain when Perez popped out.

Deep down, Hosmer remembered this. And he knew that despite the Royals touching up Familia twice, banking on Gordon, standing in the on-deck circle, for a two-out, game-tying hit, was folly. And he’d heard, before the series began, that Wright’s arm is weaker than it used to be and that first baseman Lucas Duda was susceptible to aggressive baserunning. As Yost said: “Make them beat us.”

Really, though, this was Hosmer’s instinct. He grew up in a Royals organization that preached aggressiveness. Kansas City talked about pinch running for Hosmer with the speedier Jarrod Dyson but trusted Hosmer to make the right decision. As he left, Hosmer feared he hadn’t.

“When I first decided to go home, I thought it was a big mistake,” Hosmer said. “But I couldn’t turn back at that point. You’ve got to just figure out a way to get there.”

Gordon saw the play unfolding and thought to himself: “Crap.” A great throw from Duda nails Hosmer, ends the game and sends the series back to Kansas City. A good throw is a bang-bang play, a 50/50 proposition. The throw from Duda was neither. It sailed out of catcher Travis d’Arnaud’s reach and to the backstop, and the headfirst-sliding Hosmer tied the game. He popped off the ground, his uniform dirtied just as his coaches like it, and emitted a giant, “Wooooo!”, audible even amid the boos of a deflated, disconsolate Citi Field.

“That’s just the way we’ve been doing it all year,” Hosmer said. “We’ve been taking chances.”

Mets studio guy Bob Ojeda today said Keith Hernandez told him the correct play there by Duda once he realizes that Hosmer is going is to give up the out at first, come off the bag and catch Wright's throw several feet earlier and throw home for the out. At that point you have a slow runner at first in Perez with 2 out. Yost probably pinch runs Dyson but even if Dyson does steal 2nd and Gordon gets a hit the Royals have lost their series MVP for the rest of the game

 

[robert terwilliger]

that's the correct play, sure.

hernandez was also infinitely better than duda defensively and that's putting it lightly.

 

[Pwnasaurus]

Randy Johnson once told Byung-Hyun Kim that the optimal play was a strikeout. Kim had given up a sharp groundball through the left side of the infield at the time.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

that's the correct play, sure.

hernandez was also infinitely better than duda defensively and that's putting it lightly.

This is the key point. Duda cuts the ball off early and he still might throw it away. He's a bad defender and clearly didn't think of that as an option. This all goes into the Royals knowing the Mets tenancies and exploiting their weaknesses at key moments. If it's not Duda playing first and it's Adrian Gonzalez instead, Hosmer likely doesn't break for home.

 

[Del Preston]

21 minutes later:

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

Mets fans will be depressed. They probably lose both csepedes and Murphy. Granted Murphy is a defensive liability who played over his head in October. Hrd not that great a hitter. It was awesome to know he sucked in the Classic. Mets won't be back there even with that staff. They aren't even the best team in that division. Only reason they got here is because the offense got better when csepedes came. When he goes they don't have that threat. Wright is okay but he's kind of over the hill. He can't carry a lineup.

 

[robert terwilliger]

take the time to proofread what you're typing, man.

your takes can still be hot but they'll be hotter with proper spelling and punctuation.