GDT: World Junior Discussion 2013-2014

[Sonny21]

Right now, everything the Hawks touch is turning into gold...you can't just look at their positives and ignore all the negatives:

Barker, Beach, Olsen, Skille, McNeill.

They have had their fair share of "D'oh" moments.

If the Blackhawks knew that Saad was going to be so good so quickly, they would not have drafted him after McNeill.

Chicago passed Saad three times in the draft before finally taking him. Lucky.

No doubt but it would be great to find a real gem mid to late 1st round as well. You don't expect that every year, but when was the last time we had a gem of that caliber. I mean who knows maybe Leivo, Verhaeghe and etc might turn into that.

 

[Sonny21]

hawks have a core team that plays their system which allowsefringe players to step in and contribute. same with pens and boston.

leafs don't have anything close to that.

Yeah you're right, great point.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Robert Hagg gets beaten on a play that NHL'er Hampus Lindholm probably doesn't get beaten on, and that is the difference of this game.

The 2 best teams played for gold, so you could chop it down to that one play.

Canada with our plumber picks ie. Frederik Gauthier, Kerby Rychel, Adam Pelech ect...deserved not to medal, I hope this and the memory of Nagano will be a lesson for Hockey Canada to bring our best players each and everytime.

At the beginning of the tournament I was willing to give Sutter the benefit of the doubt unless we had trouble scoring and ultimately lost. Team Canada did not bring enough scorers, they didn't bring our best players, Cherry is right. How Domi was left off of this team is a mystery.

This tournament I will always remember this team as one of our weakest that we sent oversees to represent our country.

 

[LeafOfBread]

Right now, everything the Hawks touch is turning into gold...you can't just look at their positives and ignore all the negatives:

Barker, Beach, Olsen, Skille, McNeill.

They have had their fair share of "D'oh" moments.

If the Blackhawks knew that Saad was going to be so good so quickly, they would not have drafted him after McNeill.

Chicago passed Saad three times in the draft before finally taking him. Lucky.

Olsen is doing alright with Florida now, while McNeill I think has potential to be a decent bottom 6er still. The rest are pretty bad though, but to be fair all of those picks were made by Dale Tallon or Bob Pulford. McNeill is the only Stan Bowman pick from that list.

 

[Pi]

No doubt but it would be great to find a real gem mid to late 1st round as well. You don't expect that every year, but when was the last time we had a gem of that caliber. I mean who knows maybe Leivo, Verhaeghe and etc might turn into that.

This team SUCKS at drafting.

I have literally no hope as far as drafting goes. That's why I never care about the draft picks we trade.

I am just glad they didn't screw up a top 5 pick. Morgan Rielly was the right pick. Matt Finn was the right pick.

I don't know why a talent starved team like the Leafs loves the "character" of the players they draft over their skill level.

**** character for once and stop drafting 3rd and 4th liners like Biggs and Gauthier. Go big or just trade all your draft picks.

When I look at the Leafs, I can't pinpoint ONE thing that they do well or even average.

 

[Sonny21]

This team SUCKS at drafting.

I have literally no hope as far as drafting goes. That's why I never care about the draft picks we trade.

I am just glad they didn't screw up a top 5 pick. Morgan Rielly was the right pick. Matt Finn was the right pick.

I don't know why a talent starved team like the Leafs loves the "character" of the players they draft over their skill level.

**** character for once and stop drafting 3rd and 4th liners like Biggs and Gauthier. Go big or just trade all your draft picks.

When I look at the Leafs, I can't pinpoint ONE thing that they do well or even average.

Agreed!

 

[The Winter Soldier]

This team SUCKS at drafting.

I have literally no hope as far as drafting goes. That's why I never care about the draft picks we trade.

I am just glad they didn't screw up a top 5 pick. Morgan Rielly was the right pick. Matt Finn was the right pick.

I don't know why a talent starved team like the Leafs loves the "character" of the players they draft over their skill level.

**** character for once and stop drafting 3rd and 4th liners like Biggs and Gauthier. Go big or just trade all your draft picks.

When I look at the Leafs, I can't pinpoint ONE thing that they do well or even average.

When I see Andre Burakovsky and Frederik Gauthier play side by side in this tournament, I have to wonder how the heck did we not go with the former over the latter?

Saying that, we did well with our later picks in Verhaeghe, Herzog, and Johnson. 4 out of only 5 picks played in this tournament.

 

[Epictetus]

This team SUCKS at drafting.

I have literally no hope as far as drafting goes. That's why I never care about the draft picks we trade.

I am just glad they didn't screw up a top 5 pick. Morgan Rielly was the right pick. Matt Finn was the right pick.

I don't know why a talent starved team like the Leafs loves the "character" of the players they draft over their skill level.

**** character for once and stop drafting 3rd and 4th liners like Biggs and Gauthier. Go big or just trade all your draft picks.

When I look at the Leafs, I can't pinpoint ONE thing that they do well or even average.

It's about time people began to be upset about the dysfunctional nature of this organization. Criticism instead of blind support for treading mediocrity should be the only way to go at this point in time. The results are just simply not there.

Bobby Mac is even pandering to Hockey Canada.

I'll be the first to say it, but he's not as great as people make him out to be when it comes to a 'hockey expert'. His opinions mostly conform to the general consensus, rather than being true to what he truly feels. I would actually like him to say something that makes me go, "wow, Bob Mac was right about this."

 

[jimmycarter]

finally more are getting on the leafs suck at scouting bandwagon.... something some of us have been saying for years now.

 

[Peasy]

Yeah, I hate how the leafs go for such safe picks in the first round that wont really turn out into any gems unless theyre a top 10 picks. Biggs is looking terrible, Percy will be a steady D man, nothing crazy. Gauthier, again a really safe pick, most likely be a 3rd liner, who knows, right now it doesnt appear he can be anything more than that. I would of loved to go take a risk on a prospect like Shinkurak, he fell quite a bit but it could end up being rewarding.

 

[LeafOfBread]

I'm actually happy with how some of our later picks have gone, we've picked some nice skilled players these past few years. Guys like Brown, Verhaeghe, Finn, A. Johnson, Cameranesi, Toninato, Leivo, Loov, Nilsson, Granberg,etc. seem like pretty solid picks. It's the higher picks that I'm a bit iffier on.

 

[Peasy]

I'm actually happy with how some of our later picks have gone, we've picked some nice skilled players these past few years. Guys like Brown, Verhaeghe, Finn, A. Johnson, Cameranesi, Toninato, Leivo, Loov, Nilsson, Granberg,etc. seem like pretty solid picks. It's the higher picks that I'm a bit iffier on.

Yeah its weird, during the first and second rounds they dont wanna take risks, but on later rounds they dont give a ****.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Yeah, I hate how the leafs go for such safe picks in the first round that wont really turn out into any gems unless theyre a top 10 picks. Biggs is looking terrible, Percy will be a steady D man, nothing crazy. Gauthier, again a really safe pick, most likely be a 3rd liner, who knows, right now it doesnt appear he can be anything more than that. I would of loved to go take a risk on a prospect like Shinkurak, he fell quite a bit but it could end up being rewarding.

Maybe we have it wrong, we should trade our first rd picks if they are not high ones, and add later rd picks where we seem to do very well.

There was a reason why Detroit found Datsyuk or Lidstrom. More picks is the illusion of being draft geniuses when you have more darts to throw at a wall.

 

[Rare Jewel]

This team SUCKS at drafting.

I have literally no hope as far as drafting goes. That's why I never care about the draft picks we trade.

I am just glad they didn't screw up a top 5 pick. Morgan Rielly was the right pick. Matt Finn was the right pick.

I don't know why a talent starved team like the Leafs loves the "character" of the players they draft over their skill level.

**** character for once and stop drafting 3rd and 4th liners like Biggs and Gauthier. Go big or just trade all your draft picks.

When I look at the Leafs, I can't pinpoint ONE thing that they do well or even average.

You kind of just did.

Aside from 2011 we really haven't had a full stock of picks in a year cause they've been moved. So it's hard IMO to be harsh on the N.A scouting in particular.

The European staff have done all that's expected IMO. If people think we're going to get a Datsyuk or Zetterberg every year you're sorely misguided.

The Biggs pick is the only one we could look at this moment and say he's probably not going to project the way we hoped. But the scouts to their credit picked/found Leivo in the 3rd round and he's well on pace to be a good NHLer.

Ross is another who's underperformed, But no one was saying he was horrible pick when he was lighting it up in Portland. Which is also the reason we shouldn't give up on him yet.

As for Gauthier it's far too early to make conclusions. Way too early, The talk about it is laughable to me.


The WJC fever has hit you hard, Rest is the best solution.

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

Hockey Canada needs major changes... I agree with Cherry, you gotta get the best players, this training camp stuff is crap. Although I would live Sutter back.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

You kind of just did.

Aside from 2011 we really haven't had a full stock of picks in a year cause they've been moved. So it's hard IMO to be harsh on the N.A scouting in particular.

The European staff have done all that's expected IMO. If people think we're going to get a Datsyuk or Zetterberg every year you're sorely misguided.

The Biggs pick is the only one we could look at this moment and say he's probably not going to project the way we hoped. But the scouts to their credit picked/found Leivo in the 3rd round and he's well on pace to be a good NHLer.

Ross is another who's underperformed, But no one was saying he was horrible pick when he was lighting it up in Portland. Which is also the reason we shouldn't give up on him yet.

As for Gauthier it's far too early to make conclusions. Way too early, The talk about it is laughable to me.


The WJC fever has hit you hard, Rest is the best solution.

Gauthier doesn't have high end skill, how he is going to develop this from 18-20 is a mystery to me, he may improve his skating somewhat, but what does that leave us with, a Jay Mcclement who is a little bigger in a few years. I don't see the upside of drafting a defensive star, that didn't even dominate defensively in this tournament. This pick is so underwhelming, it defies logic.

What we got in the first rd could have easily been taken later in the draft or signed as a UFA. If Gauthier turns into Patrice Bergeron 2.0, I will take my comments all back, right now he looks like he is on a path to become at minimum a Jay Mcclement 2.0.

Has anyone even watched Behind the draft, was this Nonis or Morrison that made the call? Reason, this pick is so un-Burke like if he were still running the team.

 

[Duffman955]

I'm actually happy with how some of our later picks have gone, we've picked some nice skilled players these past few years. Guys like Brown, Verhaeghe, Finn, A. Johnson, Cameranesi, Toninato, Leivo, Loov, Nilsson, Granberg,etc. seem like pretty solid picks. It's the higher picks that I'm a bit iffier on.

Agreed completely. I think our drafting in rounds 3-7 has been excellent. We have gotten some boom/bust picks as well as some safe players from there.

In rounds 1-2 I feel like we kind of dropped the ball. I wouldn't even mind if we go off the board, just pick a player with game changing ability.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Gauthier doesn't have high end skill, how he is going to develop this from 18-20 is a mystery to me, he may improve his skating somewhat, but what does that leave us with, a Jay Mcclement who is a little bigger in a few years. I don't see the upside of drafting a defensive star, that didn't even dominate defensively in this tournament. This pick is so underwhelming, it defies logic.

What we got in the first rd could have easily been taken later in the draft or signed as a UFA. If Gauthier turns into Patrice Bergeron 2.0, I will take my comments all back, right now he looks like he is on a path to become at minimum a Jay Mcclement 2.0.

Has anyone even watched Behind the draft, was this Nonis or Morrison that made the call? Reason, this pick is so un-Burke like if he were still running the team.

He won't develop that "high end skill" but there's a always space where those players can become NHLers cause they fill important roles. Conversely I can name many players who had "high end skill" that didn't become NHLers.

Would you have preferred Adam Erne who has more skill?

 

[FreeBird]

This team SUCKS at drafting.

I have literally no hope as far as drafting goes. That's why I never care about the draft picks we trade.

I am just glad they didn't screw up a top 5 pick. Morgan Rielly was the right pick. Matt Finn was the right pick.

I don't know why a talent starved team like the Leafs loves the "character" of the players they draft over their skill level.

**** character for once and stop drafting 3rd and 4th liners like Biggs and Gauthier. Go big or just trade all your draft picks.

When I look at the Leafs, I can't pinpoint ONE thing that they do well or even average.

Finally it seems to be sinking in, I've been saying this for years. Morrison and his staff have been incompetent for years. The pro scouting isn't much better.

 

[thewave]

Finally it seems to be sinking in, I've been saying this for years. Morrison and his staff have been incompetent for years. The pro scouting isn't much better.

Ohhhhh yeaaaaah!

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Been saying it a long time. Morrison has to be looked at a lot more critically.

 

[FreeBird]

Ohhhhh yeaaaaah!

I'm in Oakville now, reaching out to the people in need.

 

[Semantics]

finally more are getting on the leafs suck at scouting bandwagon.... something some of us have been saying for years now.

I don't know about that one. Most Leafs fans have said the team's scouting sucks for years.

Am I the only one who thinks the Leafs might have too many scouts? We apparently have 20 amateur scouts including Morrison [1]. Meanwhile, the Blackhawks only have 12 [2], and the Red Wings only 14 [3].

Scouting is definitely not a function where quantity > quality. The more people you have giving input on a player, the closer your evaluation is going to be to the league-wide consensus. That's not a good thing when the goal is to buck the trend and find a player for whom the consensus is wrong.

Having a lot of scouts may help in the late rounds to have more resources dedicated to watching players who have less exposure. But for the early rounds I'd rather have one scout with a really keen eye for talent than three scouts who are so-so, and I'd be willing to pay that guy three times as much.

[1] http://mapleleafs.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=42119
[2] http://blackhawks.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=47745
[3] http://redwings.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=44061

 

[Stephen]

I don't know about that one. Most Leafs fans have said the team's scouting sucks for years.

Am I the only one who thinks the Leafs might have too many scouts? We apparently have 20 amateur scouts including Morrison [1]. Meanwhile, the Blackhawks only have 12 [2], and the Red Wings only 14 [3].

Scouting is definitely not a function where quantity > quality. The more people you have giving input on a player, the closer your evaluation is going to be to the league-wide consensus. That's not a good thing when the goal is to buck the trend and find a player for whom the consensus is wrong.

Having a lot of scouts may help in the late rounds to have more resources dedicated to watching players who have less exposure. But for the early rounds I'd rather have one scout with a really keen eye for talent than three scouts who are so-so, and I'd be willing to pay that guy three times as much.

[1] http://mapleleafs.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=42119
[2] http://blackhawks.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=47745
[3] http://redwings.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=44061

They have a lot of guys I'm sure are just collecting alumni paycheques for life.

 

[Eyedea]

The Leafs organization should not be afraid to trade down.