U20: World Junior A Challenge returns

[Kabetogama]

Im interested in the league structre in Canada: How do I rank the Jr A-leagues?

As I understand it: BCHL is nr 1?

From EP Rinkside:

”Now, if you're curious as to what constitutes a Junior A league or why a player would go that route rather than the CHL, an easy way to think of it is that these are the players who are (mostly) going the college route. At the very least, they're playing in leagues that allow them to maintain their eligibility to play in the NCAA.”

Previewing the 2022 World Junior A Challenge

The 2022 World Junior A Challenge kicks off this Sunday in Cornwall, Ontario. Here's everything you need to know about the tournament.

eprinkside.com

 

[FLYguy3911]

Im interested in the league structre in Canada: How do I rank the Jr A-leagues?

As I understand it: BCHL is nr 1?

Generally the further West you go, the better the Junior A league. Historically the BCHL is the best. The AJHL has had some big talents recently including Makar, but the league as a whole probably hasn't caught all the way up. The SJHL and MJHL rarely produce high end players these days. Out East, I'd say the OJHL is probably behind the AJHL and BCHL but far ahead of the others.

 

[Bubbles]

Just to add to this, there will be 410 BCHL alumni playing NCAA Div 1 in 2022-23. That is really an incredible number.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Streams are listed at $10 per game. Ouch.

That’s crazy. A ticket to the round Robin games is only $16.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Out East, I'd say the OJHL is probably behind the AJHL and BCHL but far ahead of the others.

BCHL and AJHL clearly ahead, but out East I'd put the CCHL ahead of the OJHL, as a whole. It's extremely close though.

Top end teams are very comparable, but the OJHL bottom end teams are much inferior. Just too watered down. Contraction years back helped the OJ, but still too many options and politics.

BCHL
AJHL
CCHL
OJHL
MJHL/SJHL
MHL/LHJAAAQ
NOJHL
SIJHL

 

[erikhamren]

I Will pay to watch Sweden vs Latvia and USA

 

[theslatcher]

Sweden's lineup:

Stenberg - Forsfjäll - Nordh
Under Sörum - Nilsson - Wahlberg
Carlsson - Zether - Pettersson
Ståhlberg - Johansson - Sagadin
Sagranden

Bergström - Wikman
Willander - Nilsson
Landén - Kostandinski
Freij

Erliden

It's weird.

 

[MeHateHe]

The BCHL have left Hockey Canada a few years ago. They no longer participate in any Junior A related events (like this event and the Centennial Cup). Still a bit of a mystery on why though.

Depends on how you look at it, but there are some who will argue the BCHL has an outsized sense of entitlement. They're annoyed that they can't bring a lot of underage players in from outside BC.

BCHL says Hockey Canada is biased towards major junior

A 35-page paper suggests Hockey Canada needs to recognize junior A as a legit development path

www.nelsonstar.com

The BCHL's document is here: https://bchl.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Modernizing-Junior-Hockey-in-Canada.pdf

They say that Hockey Canada is restricting 16 year olds from going from, say, Ontario to BC to play Junior A, but have no problem with a 16 year old going from, say, North Vancouver to Regina to play major junior (perhaps you've heard of Connor Bedard). Hockey Canada will argue that they're trying to limit a lot of kids from going thousands of miles away from home at too young of an age (in loco parentis, and all that) and that opening it up to Junior A teams would mean an order-of-magnitude increase that would be hard to justify, given that most of the kids making that transition would wind up being middle-six guys at best on their Junior A clubs. It also leads to a beggaring of Junior A teams in weaker leagues. Alex Newhook, for example, stayed with family in Victoria, allowing him to play in the BCHL rather than playing in the Maritime Junior Hockey League.

And the BCHL isn't wrong on the Owen Power example. He left Ontario to play junior in the US. Why would Hockey Canada grant him a release to play in the US but not in BC?

So that's the why, in 35 pages. Whether it's a good why or a bad why is for someone wiser than me.

 

[erikhamren]

Latvia 3-2 Sweden OT SOG 20-37

 

[FLYguy3911]

BCHL and AJHL clearly ahead, but out East I'd put the CCHL ahead of the OJHL, as a whole. It's extremely close though.

Top end teams are very comparable, but the OJHL bottom end teams are much inferior. Just too watered down. Contraction years back helped the OJ, but still too many options and politics.

BCHL
AJHL
CCHL
OJHL
MJHL/SJHL
MHL/LHJAAAQ
NOJHL
SIJHL

Forgot about the CCHL. I was thinking more in terms of pro prospects. I know they had Levi a couple years back but struggling to think of others.

 

[Bubbles]

Depends on how you look at it, but there are some who will argue the BCHL has an outsized sense of entitlement. They're annoyed that they can't bring a lot of underage players in from outside BC.

BCHL says Hockey Canada is biased towards major junior

A 35-page paper suggests Hockey Canada needs to recognize junior A as a legit development path

www.nelsonstar.com

The BCHL's document is here: https://bchl.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Modernizing-Junior-Hockey-in-Canada.pdf

They say that Hockey Canada is restricting 16 year olds from going from, say, Ontario to BC to play Junior A, but have no problem with a 16 year old going from, say, North Vancouver to Regina to play major junior (perhaps you've heard of Connor Bedard). Hockey Canada will argue that they're trying to limit a lot of kids from going thousands of miles away from home at too young of an age (in loco parentis, and all that) and that opening it up to Junior A teams would mean an order-of-magnitude increase that would be hard to justify, given that most of the kids making that transition would wind up being middle-six guys at best on their Junior A clubs. It also leads to a beggaring of Junior A teams in weaker leagues. Alex Newhook, for example, stayed with family in Victoria, allowing him to play in the BCHL rather than playing in the Maritime Junior Hockey League.

And the BCHL isn't wrong on the Owen Power example. He left Ontario to play junior in the US. Why would Hockey Canada grant him a release to play in the US but not in BC?

So that's the why, in 35 pages. Whether it's a good why or a bad why is for someone wiser than me.

Ah, thanks for the link!

I can see why the BCHL feels that way. If those rules on kids moving province to province change, they would most benefit the BCHL, being far and away the best Junior A league in the country.

Also, I didn't know HC didn't give any money to the Junior A leagues in Canada. That's outrageous if they give CHL teams money but not Junior A.

There are definitely more and more Canadian kids leaving the major junior route and going USHL. Macklin Celebrini being a recent example.

 

[erikhamren]

USA next for Sweden. We Will probably lose again.

 

[MeHateHe]

Ah, thanks for the link!

I can see why the BCHL feels that way. If those rules on kids moving province to province change, they would most benefit the BCHL, being far and away the best Junior A league in the country.

Also, I didn't know HC didn't give any money to the Junior A leagues in Canada. That's outrageous if they give CHL teams money but not Junior A.

There are definitely more and more Canadian kids leaving the major junior route and going USHL. Macklin Celebrini being a recent example.

Sure. I mean, many things can be true at once. On the money side, Hockey Canada treats Junior A like the ugly stepsister and always has. HC constantly undervalues Junior A's contribution to the development and growth of hockey in this country. But there are only so many dollars to go around and if HC starts doling out cash to the 200+Junior A teams, then the Junior B teams will be next to stick their hands up. In truth, major junior is the one with the most to lose through its relationship to HC, given that they lose their stars for a month every year for World Juniors (never mind the injury risk). So on this point, it's not as simple as saying, well, you give the WHL money, you should also give the AJHL money. Fairness isn't really the central point.

And on the inter-branch transfers, I get the BCHL's point, but I also understand why Hockey Canada is reluctant to make a too-broad policy. For every Owen Power who winds up in the NHL, there are 15 Johnny NoNames who might be stars for the Summerside Capitals, but would be third-liners on the Cowichan Valley Capitals. (AND I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT THAT NEITHER SUMMERSIDE, NOR COWICHAN VALLEY, ARE THE CAPITALS OF THEIR RESPECTIVE PROVINCES WHAT THE HELL). So if Hockey Canada allows too many transfers, all you wind up doing is leaving the weaker leagues even weaker to the benefit of one league. And in truth it would wind up benefiting the same four or five elite teams in the BCHL. Remember when Merritt and Powell River and Trail were world beaters? Me neither. AND there's also the point about encouraging more 16-year-olds to go thousands of miles from home to chase the vain goal of being the next great empty-net scorer in the NHL. (Don't tell the OvechkEN stans I'm making fun of him here.) Hockey Canada is in a no-win position: support the very few elite while still looking out for the best interests of the overwhelming majority of guys who are just doing their best. Cookie cutters and all that: one size will never fit all.

All of this is to say that I see it from both sides. And I also know that the BCHL thinks its armpits don't need deodorant, and that their delusions of being on par with the WHL (some see it that way) doesn't serve them particularly well either.

 

[Eye of Ra]

We always lose to Latvia. I told you guys before about the decline of Swedish hockey.

 

[erikhamren]

We always lose to Latvia. I told you guys before about the decline of Swedish hockey.

Yeah. But What can we supporters do? All swedes need to go to swedish hockey federation hq and demand a answer. I see no other solution.

 

[Hockeyfrilla]

We always lose to Latvia. I told you guys before about the decline of Swedish hockey.

Seems to be a new bogey team at U18 level.

 

[erikhamren]

Seems to be a new bogey team at U18 level.

I saw the whole game and was not impressed. Sure We outshooted them but that means nothing when we lost

 

[theslatcher]

Missing the top 2 D, a top forward, and having a classic Swedish NT coach are always going to be question marks.

 

[erikhamren]

Sweden lost again. 3-0. 15-38 SOG

We have almost the exact team we had in Hlinka, where we reached final.

Apparently this is the best 05 players Sweden can find according to the coach, so this doesnt look good.

Sweden ice hockey federation needs to dissovle, and then we begin from there

 

[Kabetogama]

Sweden lost again. 3-0. 15-38 SOG

We have almost the exact team we had in Hlinka, where we reached final.

Apparently this is the best 05 players Sweden can find according to the coach, so this doesnt look good.

Sweden ice hockey federation needs to dissovle, and then we begin from there

Easy now. Sweden missed five key pieces (Stenberg, Dower Nilsson, Edstrom, Pelikka and Lindstein) and played a really good U.S. team mostly born 03 and 04, of whom five were drafted, on their ice. Sweden’s 05 group is good, but does not have the stars that the 02 and 04 group had.

 

[Preds666]

Sweden’s 05 group is good, but does not have the stars that the 02 and 04 group had.

What makes the Swedish 05's good? I see less top-end talent than for most years and the depth is not very impressive imo.

The worst skating Swedish defenseman I have seen since since Kjell Samuelsson (Canada Cup, 91/92) is getting big minutes on this team.

Personally, I think it is a quite mediocre group and so far I think the same of the Swedish 06's.
I like that the 05's do have a few really mobile defensemen (Sandin Pellikka, underrated Tom Willander, Arvid Bergström).

At forward, there's little reason to get excited for anyone else than Stenberg, Dower Nilsson (although I think he looks bad internationally, but great in the Swedish juniors), Wahlberg and maybe Noel Nordh (although the most inconsistent player of the bunch).

So, well.. I would personally call the 05's below average in terms of overall quality. I do have big hopes about the Swedish 07's though.

 

[Kabetogama]

What makes the Swedish 05's good? I see less top-end talent than for most years and the depth is not very impressive imo.

The worst skating Swedish defenseman I have seen since since Kjell Samuelsson (Canada Cup, 91/92) is getting big minutes on this team.

Personally, I think it is a quite mediocre group and so far I think the same of the Swedish 06's.
I like that the 05's do have a few really mobile defensemen (Sandin Pellikka, underrated Tom Willander, Arvid Bergström).

At forward, there's little reason to get excited for anyone else than Stenberg, Dower Nilsson (although I think he looks bad internationally, but great in the Swedish juniors), Wahlberg and maybe Noel Nordh (although the most inconsistent player of the bunch).

So, well.. I would personally call the 05's below average in terms of overall quality. I do have big hopes about the Swedish 07's though.

I think we’re saying the same thing. The 05 group does not have ”stars”. Whether that makes the group ”good”, ”ok” or ”mediocre” is always debatable. But the team finished second in Hlinka and second in Plymouth, on small ice. Now they are playing against older competition without five of their best players. Remove five of the best players from the 04 team and see how they would do…

 

[Hockeyfrilla]

SWE U18 - Canada west 5-3, need to win next game, that terrible ot loss vs latvia is costly

 

[erikhamren]

Sweden junior hockey is free falling. Hockey is the only big international sport We are good at, and i cant accept We Will be worse than b-nations.

 

[Hockeyfrilla]

SWE U18 - Canada East 4-1

Is Noah Dower-Nilsson injured? Has yet to appear in any games it seems