World Cup Rosters - Nuge named to U24 NA team. Hall not named to Canada

[Aequitas]

There was more than enough time for the NHL to setup qualifiers in January 2015 for a tournament taking place in the Fall of 2016, a full 20mths later.

Even in World Cup soccer, that involves hundreds of countries, and multiple levels of qualifying tournaments it all takes place in a comparable time frame.

Hockey, unlike Soccer, would only require one preliminary qualifying tournament due to the finite amount of teams involved.

Why on Earth would it take from start of 2015, to near end of 2020 for organizers to get all the preliminary done for the right format?

I didn't say they couldn't do it. They chose this format as the first world cup and went with it. Going forward as they decide to progress with this I would assume they would want the tournament to have qualifiers and so forth as it keeps people interested during the time off and so forth. My point was as it stands it isn`t a true world cup right now but can become on in the future which I think you agree with but you are on a rampage to prove it could have been on to begin with.

 

[GMofOilers]

There was more than enough time for the NHL to setup qualifiers in January 2015 for a tournament taking place in the Fall of 2016, a full 20mths later.

Even in World Cup soccer, that involves hundreds of countries, and multiple levels of qualifying tournaments it all takes place in a comparable time frame.

Hockey, unlike Soccer, would only require one preliminary qualifying tournament due to the finite amount of teams involved.

Why on Earth would it take from start of 2015, to near end of 2020 for organizers to get all the preliminary done for the right format?

You really think its that easy for the league and players to come up with something like that that fast? They cant even come up with a CBA when they know its due.

 

[Replacement*]

I didn't say they couldn't do it. They chose this format as the first world cup and went with it. Going forward as they decide to progress with this I would assume they would want the tournament to have qualifiers and so forth as it keeps people interested during the time off and so forth. My point was as it stands it isn`t a true world cup right now but can become on in the future which I think you agree with but you are on a rampage to prove it could have been on to begin with.

l followed that you essentially agreed. But again why choose this format at all? There was simply no reason to do this. I'll copy a good post off the International Hockey board.

I am going to a Toronto Blue Jays/Boston Red Sox game at Fenway Park on October 1st. What does that mean? It means that if the final goes best of 3 then Game 3 is on October 1st. Now why would a lifelong hockey fan do this? Simply put, there is a strong chance the Under 23 North American team could play Canada in the final and that would be disastrous. Can you imagine McDavid - arguably the best player in hockey today - not only not being allowed to play for his country but having to compete against them for hockey superiority? How hard is he going to play? What Canadian kid is going to want to beat their own country? It is a joke.

All the NHL had to do with the World Cup format was................nothing. Nothing. It was perfect. Add the best two out of three for the final but that was all they had to do. I honestly thought it was a joke when they explained the 23 and under concept.

You really think its that easy for the league and players to come up with something like that that fast? They cant even come up with a CBA when they know its due.

They didn't have to come up with anything. Just continue the prior Canada Cup tournament format or any sensible application of a world tournament. Instead they've intentionally adopted an inane format that has had a lot of criticism. Really the vast majority of posts on the International hockey threads on this topic have critiqued the format and with "joke" being the most common conclusion.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2041629


Lets not pretend critique of this format is isolated. Its been ongoing ever since it was announced.

 

[Replacement*]

I dont know what you want me to say. I laid out some facts by the people that organized this whole thing, and you chose to ignore them with your opinion.

They said there wasnt enough time to organize qualifying. I believe them as they are the ones organizing.

This is the key point and its simply wrong. Explain how World Cup Soccer can organize, play preliminaries, do all this in the same timeline involving a dozen times more countries and the NHL can't.

They chose not to. That they went with the gimmick unders teams format tells me exactly what they are doing and why. Its the same reason they went with unders incantations at ASG's.

To capture youth demographic by offering youth specific teams.

As I joked earlier the NHL would implement a CG cartoon team in the tournament if they thought they could pull it off and get ratings. Although Goofy would fit in well with the tournament come to think of it.

Again if they wanted to do the format right they could have.

 

[GMofOilers]

This is the key point and its simply wrong. Explain how World Cup Soccer can organize, play preliminaries, do all this in the same timeline involving a dozen times more countries and the NHL can't.

They chose not to. That they went with the gimmick unders teams format tells me exactly what they are doing and why. Its the same reason they went with unders incantations at ASG's.

To capture youth demographic by offering youth specific teams.

Again if they wanted to do the format right they could have.

You cant claim its wrong. No way. Sorry man your not convincing me to believe you over the people that did the negotiations. Not happening. You can claim all you want you know there was enough time, but really you honestly are just assuming.

 

[Aequitas]

This is the key point and its simply wrong. Explain how World Cup Soccer can organize, play preliminaries, do all this in the same timeline involving a dozen times more countries and the NHL can't.

They chose not to. That they went with the gimmick unders teams format tells me exactly what they are doing and why. Its the same reason they went with unders incantations at ASG's.

To capture youth demographic by offering youth specific teams.

As I joked earlier the NHL would implement a CG cartoon team in the tournament if they thought they could pull it off and get ratings. Although Goofy would fit in well with the tournament come to think of it.

Again if they wanted to do the format right they could have.

they have an existing format with existing rules and they set up tournaments years in advanced. they dont do them the year they are played they have them organized like 4 years before. I agree they should have not put this out without setting it up properly but I don`t necessarily agree that 20 months is enough time and soccer definitely takes more time.

 

[rboomercat90]

For the record, I dont think this tournament should be called the World Cup this one, but I understand it going forward if they hold true to their words going forward.

It's a pretty big thing to overlook though, don't you think? The World Cup of soccer is the most prestigious sporting event in the world. I don't think it was an accident that they chose that name and are trying to capitalize on it. To use that name for this particular event is embarrassing to the NHL, whether they want to admit it or not. They deserve to be called out on it.

If the league decided they wanted a tournament like this, with this format then so be it. They can do what they want. It shouldn't have been named what it is and the only reason they did was because their marketing department thought they could make more money doing so. If you believe their nonsense then you're exactly the type of person they're trying to market to.

 

[EchoesoftheEighties]

This tournament is a joke and an embarrassment. I don't plan on watching it and I fall within the "youth" they're supposedly targeting.

North America under 24

 

[GMofOilers]

This tournament is a joke and an embarrassment. I don't plan on watching it and I fall within the "youth" they're supposedly targeting.

North America under 24

Your loss, all good.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Your loss, all good.

Another troubling thing from one of your earlier posts in which John Collins was quoted re: future tournaments, is that player eligibility could become less restrictive, i.e. player X can play for his ancestral country and not just the country in which he was born, raised, learned his skills and oh ya, holds citizenship, but he will be freed up to join whatever team his parents/grandparents or great grandparents called home at some point in their family tree. The Family Tree Cup. I can see one particular website lining up for sponsorship of this doozy of a marketing gong show. LOL. This is just becoming more ridiculous and amateurish every time these slick N.Y. City lawyers open their mouths. Luongo can suit up for Italy. Todd Bertuzzi will come out of retirement to join him. Team France will enter a team and boast 3 players who were actually born and raised in France, the rest made of Quebecers not quite good enough. Maybe Scotland would like their own team and can convince Nathan MacKinnon to suit up for them. Oh, and by the way, in 4 years from now McDavid will still be too young to play for Team Canada... but that okay, as it won't be Team Canada anyway, it will be referred to as the Colonies or Team British North America. Team USA will be known as the Paul Revere Revolutionaries. The Revolutionaries will play all their prelim games on an outdoor rink near Boston harbor. Anybody up for a spot of tea?

This is where this **** fest is going. and I'll have no part of it.

 

[Frank the Tank]

I think Thornton bows out this summer. I hope Hall receives his spot, and my guess is Armstrong picks Couture.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

I think Thornton bows out this summer. I hope Hall receives his spot, and my guess is Armstrong picks Couture.

I would think Thornton's leaning toward retirement after how bad he looked in that final.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Another troubling thing from one of your earlier posts in which John Collins was quoted re: future tournaments, is that player eligibility could become less restrictive, i.e. player X can play for his ancestral country and not just the country in which he was born, raised, learned his skills and oh ya, holds citizenship, but he will be freed up to join whatever team his parents/grandparents or great grandparents called home at some point in their family tree. The Family Tree Cup. I can see one particular website lining up for sponsorship of this doozy of a marketing gong show. LOL. This is just becoming more ridiculous and amateurish every time these slick N.Y. City lawyers open their mouths. Luongo can suit up for Italy. Todd Bertuzzi will come out of retirement to join him. Team France will enter a team and boast 3 players who were actually born and raised in France, the rest made of Quebecers not quite good enough. Maybe Scotland would like their own team and can convince Nathan MacKinnon to suit up for them. Oh, and by the way, in 4 years from now McDavid will still be too young to play for Team Canada... but that okay, as it won't be Team Canada anyway, it will be referred to as the Colonies or Team British North America. Team USA will be known as the Paul Revere Revolutionaries. The Revolutionaries will play all their prelim games on an outdoor rink near Boston harbor. Anybody up for a spot of tea?

This is where this **** fest is going. and I'll have no part of it.

The League wants to showcase more of their star players. It's not complicated. Maybe you should just wait until October to pay attention to hockey things, it will make things simpler.

 

[GMofOilers]

I would think Thornton's leaning toward retirement after how bad he looked in that final.

Pavelski was way worse then Thornton.

I honestly think they were just happy with making it to the Finals.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Pavelski was way worse then Thornton.

I honestly think they were just happy with making it to the Finals.

Pavelski was worse then Thornton because he's needed Thornton's support to succeed, so when Thornton can't keep up, can barely handle the puck (let alone set a player up) everyone around him look terrible.

They were both awful, just of the two of them, Thornton looked like a guy who might struggle to continue to compete.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Pavelski was way worse then Thornton.

I honestly think they were just happy with making it to the Finals.

Pavelski was a ghost.

And I very much agree with your second sentiment.

 

[Replacement*]

Another troubling thing from one of your earlier posts in which John Collins was quoted re: future tournaments, is that player eligibility could become less restrictive, i.e. player X can play for his ancestral country and not just the country in which he was born, raised, learned his skills and oh ya, holds citizenship, but he will be freed up to join whatever team his parents/grandparents or great grandparents called home at some point in their family tree. The Family Tree Cup. I can see one particular website lining up for sponsorship of this doozy of a marketing gong show. LOL. This is just becoming more ridiculous and amateurish every time these slick N.Y. City lawyers open their mouths. Luongo can suit up for Italy. Todd Bertuzzi will come out of retirement to join him. Team France will enter a team and boast 3 players who were actually born and raised in France, the rest made of Quebecers not quite good enough. Maybe Scotland would like their own team and can convince Nathan MacKinnon to suit up for them. Oh, and by the way, in 4 years from now McDavid will still be too young to play for Team Canada... but that okay, as it won't be Team Canada anyway, it will be referred to as the Colonies or Team British North America. Team USA will be known as the Paul Revere Revolutionaries. The Revolutionaries will play all their prelim games on an outdoor rink near Boston harbor. Anybody up for a spot of tea?

This is where this **** fest is going. and I'll have no part of it.

heh, its as if I'm writing these posts its so similar to what I'm thinking. I picked up on the bolded as well.

Don't look now, lol, but France, Germany, Scotland, Italy, among others just became hockey power houses on the basis of having had a lot of Canadian immigrants.

Its just silly. With that relaxing of what defines the team one can play on it results in basically try outs status. Anybody that can't make Canada, US team can try out for basically any club depending on how many nationalities are represented in their heritage.

What team any particular player goes on would be a crapshoot. I could see that being big with the NHLPA though as any player has different options in teams to play for and many more players that want to get in. Rather than be a world tournament this means even more NHL players just getting in.

 

[Replacement*]

Pavelski was way worse then Thornton.

I honestly think they were just happy with making it to the Finals.

I don't follow the criticism of Thorntons play either. He couldn't really play better. He was doing much of what Crosby was doing, setting up play after play, making great break out passes, getting back to defend in the corners, around the net, he was all over for a big man and the most likely to be back, and the most likely to be in on the forecheck and pinching on boards to keep puck in. Through most of the playoffs Thornton was playing possessed. Pavelski was a complete bust in the final who blew countless scoring chances and 3 great chances just last night.

Marleau is done but any Shark fan could tell you that based on the season. Just not an impact player anymore. But nobody really expected he would be.

For the Sharks its sad they took this long to get this run. Some of them are too long in the tooth to make this happen. Marleau was a much better player even a couple seasons ago. But not now.

 

[Replacement*]

I think Thornton bows out this summer. I hope Hall receives his spot, and my guess is Armstrong picks Couture.

Would have to wonder. He's stated he can still go and has toyed with the idea of some Jagr like longevity. I could even see a scenario where he takes a year off and comes back. But in anycase can hold his head high. Played fantastic this season playoffs and regular season.

 

[Young Lions*]

heh, its as if I'm writing these posts its so similar to what I'm thinking. I picked up on the bolded as well.

Don't look now, lol, but France, Germany, Scotland, Italy, among others just became hockey power houses on the basis of having had a lot of Canadian immigrants.

Its just silly. With that relaxing of what defines the team one can play on it results in basically try outs status. Anybody that can't make Canada, US team can try out for basically any club depending on how many nationalities are represented in their heritage.

What team any particular player goes on would be a crapshoot. I could see that being big with the NHLPA though as any player has different options in teams to play for and many more players that want to get in. Rather than be a world tournament this means even more NHL players just getting in.

I too think it's terrible that an international hockey tournament might be designed in such a way as to ensure the best players in the world get to participate.

 

[Replacement*]

I too think it's terrible that an international hockey tournament might be designed in such a way as to ensure the best players in the world get to participate.

But it isn't really a national tournament. Just a tournament. You can guarantee in this format that players who you don't expect to be playing for some country like Australia, Jamaica, Argentina, Ghana etc, will be playing for those clubs if they can't get on anywhere else.

But hey, they can make a movie later about how ridiculous the whole thing was.

But just don't call it a World Cup when most of the players in the tourney will be from Canada.

Hey, I think I'll organize a street hockey back alley tournament on my block. I'll call it an international World Cup tournament. I'm looking for sponsors. You in?

 

[Frank the Tank]

Would have to wonder. He's stated he can still go and has toyed with the idea of some Jagr like longevity. I could even see a scenario where he takes a year off and comes back. But in anycase can hold his head high. Played fantastic this season playoffs and regular season.

If I had to guess, I think he plays the 2016-17 NHL season. I was referencing that Thornton will pass on the shorter off-season and bow out of his spot for Team Canada this September.

 

[Young Lions*]

But it isn't really a national tournament. Just a tournament.

You can guarantee in this format that players who you don't expect to be playing for some country like Australia, Jamaica, Argentina, Ghana etc, will be playing for those clubs if they can't get on anywhere else.

Again: why is this a bad thing?

better players=better hockey and that's all I care about.

 

[Replacement*]

If I had to guess, I think he plays the 2016-17 NHL season. I was referencing that Thornton will pass on the shorter off-season and bow out of his spot for Team Canada this September.

Oh yeah, I can't see him being into that after playing hockey until mid June. He's got a lot of miles and had a very long hockey year. A lot of recriminations as well considering all the controversy that was going on in SJ before the season started.

I'd just want to go on holiday to a remote spot at this point. and shave. I would be clean shaven right now. Wonder what he finds in that beard? I think he ate Toffoli in the opening round.

 

[Replacement*]

Again: why is this a bad thing?

better players=better hockey and that's all I care about.

Has more meaning if there is some legitimacy in who a player gets to play for. It becomes arbitrary, artificial, and surreal if its just a bunch of Canadian players playing it out on different squads and against each other. It removes the National meaning from it at all. I'd prefer that Canadians not end up playing against Canada. A lot of people feel this way.

Plus who is even going to do doublechecking on player eligibility. Ancestry.com. Its a farce.