WNBA players pushing for charter flights

[KevFu]

26 years and counting without turning a profit. A laundry list of men's leagues have folded for a fraction of that lack of profitability.

And yes I read the article, I can guarantee there isn't $25m in NIL money combined in the league

#1 - Who cares about profit? We've been talking about this for decades on BOH: pro sports owners choose to lose a little bit of money for tax writeoff purposes. These aren't people running a mom & pop store where the team is their livelihoods.

#2 - The itemization is a massive element at play when looking at the financials and makes numbers misleading.

You have expenses and revenues that apply to both an NBA and the WNBA team owned by the same person... where do those numbers go? Does the NBA have language in the CBA about WNBA expenses being exempt from revenue sharing?

The hundreds of millions of dollars from in-arena signage (and arena naming rights), where does that go?

Like in Phoenix, their naming sponsor and signage buyers know there are 44 NBA games, 21 WNBA games, possible playoff games, other outside events, and the expected attendance and exposure is broken down on Appendix C of the proposal.

But does the percentage of the deal the WNBA brings show up on the WNBA ledger? Nah.

 

[KevFu]

Can you quote the posts in this thread that have done this.

Sure! Right here:

If money is going to be effectively thrown away

It's pretty insulting to say that the league's existence is effectively "garbage" (aka, what you THROW AWAY).


Investing in low-budget sports that are the very top national league, in a sport that people actually like, is a smart idea because of the trends in franchise values.

The WNBA now is like soccer in the 80s. People go out of their way to say how stupid it is, and it's for people without heteronormative preferences, It'll NEVER work because no one cares.

The financials for the WNBA now are basically what MLS was then (MLS teams cost $10 million in 2004); and what the NHL was in the 1980s (The Red Wings sold for $8.5 million in 1982).


Now here we are, a couple decades later and GENERATIONS of kids have grown up where the media exposure of soccer in the US is "Normal" and the sport is just as mainstream as the big four.

And now you're going to see that going forward with women's sports. Mainly because the TV/Streaming networks are turning to them for live event content that's far cheaper than a bidding war for the big four.

 

[joelef]

Can you quote the posts in this thread that have done this.

The OP makes a point to throw in the concept of "equality" which automatically brings in comments about the financial realities of "equalizing" a league that is not on equal terms financially with it's male counterpart or other female sports.

This should not be perceived as mocking or ridicule.

Nor should a dismissal of the prospect of it reaching it a "profitable" status if only there was more investment. If money is going to be effectively thrown away, throw at a group that is in much more need of it like disenfranchised youth. We don't need any more pro sports on TV.

Any criticism of the league is apparently “sexist”

 

[daver]

Sure! Right here:



It's pretty insulting to say that the league's existence is effectively "garbage" (aka, what you THROW AWAY).


Investing in low-budget sports that are the very top national league, in a sport that people actually like, is a smart idea because of the trends in franchise values.

The WNBA now is like soccer in the 80s. People go out of their way to say how stupid it is, and it's for people without heteronormative preferences, It'll NEVER work because no one cares.

The financials for the WNBA now are basically what MLS was then (MLS teams cost $10 million in 2004); and what the NHL was in the 1980s (The Red Wings sold for $8.5 million in 1982).


Now here we are, a couple decades later and GENERATIONS of kids have grown up where the media exposure of soccer in the US is "Normal" and the sport is just as mainstream as the big four.

And now you're going to see that going forward with women's sports. Mainly because the TV/Streaming networks are turning to them for live event content that's far cheaper than a bidding war for the big four.

Jesus, you seem to be have a hair trigger sensitivity to a discussion about the financial realities of a pro sports league.

If the league can afford charter flights, great. If they cannot afford them, they cannot. It is a pretty simple concept. That there male counterparts can afford them (not sure about the D League players) doesn't make this simple concept any less simple.

Shaming somebody to pay for the flights because of "equality" seems like a waste of money that could be spent elsewhere i.e. hence use of the term "throw away". Helping youth rather than giving athletes a more comfortable ride make sense to me.

 

[joelef]

Jesus, you seem to be have a hair trigger sensitivity to a discussion about the financial realities of a pro sports league.

If the league can afford charter flights, great. If they cannot afford them, they cannot. It is a pretty simple concept. That there male counterparts can afford them (not sure about the D League players) doesn't make this simple concept any less simple.

Shaming somebody to pay for the flights because of "equality" seems like a waste of money that could be spent elsewhere i.e. hence use of the term "throw away". Helping youth rather than giving athletes a more comfortable ride make sense to me.

Nll players don’t have charter flights either Funny I don’t hear any cries of “inequality “

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Nll players don’t have charter flights either Funny I don’t hear any cries of “inequality “

Neither do PGA Tour pros...again, no tears

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

#1 - Who cares about profit? We've been talking about this for decades on BOH: pro sports owners choose to lose a little bit of money for tax writeoff purposes. These aren't people running a mom & pop store where the team is their livelihoods.

#2 - The itemization is a massive element at play when looking at the financials and makes numbers misleading.

You have expenses and revenues that apply to both an NBA and the WNBA team owned by the same person... where do those numbers go? Does the NBA have language in the CBA about WNBA expenses being exempt from revenue sharing?

The hundreds of millions of dollars from in-arena signage (and arena naming rights), where does that go?

Like in Phoenix, their naming sponsor and signage buyers know there are 44 NBA games, 21 WNBA games, possible playoff games, other outside events, and the expected attendance and exposure is broken down on Appendix C of the proposal.

But does the percentage of the deal the WNBA brings show up on the WNBA ledger? Nah.

So you want to ignore the realities of professional league finances and facts and throw sanctimonious temper tantrums...got it.

The WNBA is playing in the same reality as every other pro league. Athletes get the amenities and pay that the league revenues can afford, period. It's not SeXiSm

 

[KevFu]

So you want to ignore the realities of professional league finances and facts and throw sanctimonious temper tantrums...got it.

The WNBA is playing in the same reality as every other pro league. Athletes get the amenities and pay that the league revenues can afford, period. It's not SeXiSm

Temper tantrums? I think talking sports business is FUN. And I'm not accusing anyone of sexism.

I DID point out something that qualified as insulting, but only because dude asked who said something insulting and then did, and that was funny to me. Personally, IDGAF.

That's why I've been trying to draw the comparison to SOCCER in the United States 30-40 years ago:

Everyone said "No one cares!" Everyone said the players and fans were (um, part of an "alternative lifestyle") and no one thought it would ever make money/be profitable. Here we are now, decades later with MLS teams selling for hundreds of millions of dollars. Future generations are more accepting than previous ones.

Women's sports are the next trend because there's more Streaming Platforms than major pro leagues, the RSN thread shows us the rights fee bubbles are bursting, and those networks/platforms can get the rights to women's leagues for 1/20th the cost and still draw 1/8th the audience.

And that audience will grow because less accepting generations will die, and the younger generations are used to seeing women's sports on TV/streaming and not think anything of it.


And for the record, I don't think the average fan has any clue about the REALITIES of professional league finances at all.

 

[daver]

Maybe the misogyny has something to do with the fact that a bunch of people used this thread to dogpile WNBA players for "asking for more charity" instead of just reading the article in the OP that clearly stated it was a WNBA player looking to build a plan that involved using their own NIL money to do it.

Then the OP highlights a tweet about this being an "equality" issue which moves it from being a money discussion to the political.

So which is it? A grassroots movement by the players to put together a financial plan for charter flights for the good of the league without league support (is that even viable?) or is there an underlying principle here that women are being treated differently than the men that needs to be rectified.

On the surface, it would appear there is equality in how the league has limitations in the benefits it can offer to it's athletes based on financial realities. The WNBA is being treated like any other sports league; it can either operate because it's product is good enough to attract an audience to make it financially viable or it will succumb. Adding a $20 million line item to expenses pushes it towards the latter.

 

[LadyStanley]

Liberty co-owner Clara Wu Tsai believes charter flights 'enough of a topic' within WNBA that commissioner will address it

Breanna Stewart pushed the issue during her free agency and signed with the Liberty to "continue to raise the standard."

sports.yahoo.com

More discussion to come?

 

[joelef]

Then the OP highlights a tweet about this being an "equality" issue which moves it from being a money discussion to the political.

So which is it? A grassroots movement by the players to put together a financial plan for charter flights for the good of the league without league support (is that even viable?) or is there an underlying principle here that women are being treated differently than the men that needs to be rectified.

On the surface, it would appear there is equality in how the league has limitations in the benefits it can offer to it's athletes based on financial realities. The WNBA is being treated like any other sports league; it can either operate because it's product is good enough to attract an audience to make it financially viable or it will succumb. Adding a $20 million line item to expenses pushes it towards the latter.

So the nll dosent get treated like the nfl is that sexism?

 

[joelef]

Then the OP highlights a tweet about this being an "equality" issue which moves it from being a money discussion to the political.

So which is it? A grassroots movement by the players to put together a financial plan for charter flights for the good of the league without league support (is that even viable?) or is there an underlying principle here that women are being treated differently than the men that needs to be rectified.

On the surface, it would appear there is equality in how the league has limitations in the benefits it can offer to it's athletes based on financial realities. The WNBA is being treated like any other sports league; it can either operate because it's product is good enough to attract an audience to make it financially viable or it will succumb. Adding a $20 million line item to expenses pushes it towards the latter.

They don’t want be treated like small major leagues like nll or masl .

 

[daver]

They don’t want be treated like small major leagues like nll or masl .

I am sure every pro athlete would want to get charter flights. I am sure every person would want to get a charter flight. If you have the money, go charter a plane.

Does the WNBA have the money?

 

[joelef]

I am sure every pro athlete would want to get charter flights. I am sure every person would want to get a charter flight. If you have the money, go charter a plane.

Does the WNBA have the money?

What I’m trying to say is that Smaller men sport leagues follow the market forces why does the wnba , who preaches”equality “ should be immune?

 

[daver]

What I’m trying to say is that Smaller men sport leagues follow the market forces why does the wnba , who preaches”equality “ should be immune?

Yep, this should be painfully obvious to everyone but why not push for it if you can guilt someone into putting up the money.

 

[LadyStanley]

WNBA: Player safety 'top priority' after Brittney Griner harassed in an airport

The WNBPA called on the league to implement chartered flights to keep players safe.

sports.yahoo.com

Phoenix Mercury players/team harassed at DFW. Team, union, agent calling on WNBA to allow charter flights for player safety.

 

[LadyStanley]

Mercury says they followed rules on Brittney Griner travel after airport incident

Brittney Griner’s agent said the league has only approved a “mix of charter and a select number of commercial flights” for her this season.

sports.yahoo.com

More fall out from DFW incident

 

[AintLifeGrand]

WNBA: Player safety 'top priority' after Brittney Griner harassed in an airport

The WNBPA called on the league to implement chartered flights to keep players safe.

sports.yahoo.com

Phoenix Mercury players/team harassed at DFW. Team, union, agent calling on WNBA to allow charter flights for player safety.

lol they werent harassed…

Alex Stein (a public figure ) taunted Brittany Griner ( a public figure) in the DFW airport over legitimate issues regarding her character and hypocrisy.

Its absurd how the media/ certain people believe any criticism, humor directed at or light made of of the wnba is automatically branded a “bigot/sexist/ homophobic “ etc

 

[Mike C]

Any criticism of the league is apparently “sexist”

Start out by saying you love Doris Burke and Kathryn Tappan before you say that nobody cares about WNBA or BG

Maybe her entitled petulant militant attitude is why people feel the way they do about her

 

[BattleBorn]

Aces are kind of the prototype for WNBA getting the attention they want/probably deserve.

Charter flights seem excessive in the grand scheme of things, but if a team can pull 8,000 a night and the costs aren't crazy, I guess it can work.

My issue is that few people seem to actually desire to understand how expensive that is and compare it to revenue, but we're in a unique portion of American history, so perhaps they can pull it off based on equity or something.

People should get the money and benefits they earn based on their work, and in our current system that's based on the people they employ them making a profit on what they do. There will be a breaking point unless the government steps in and forces something. Until then, get what you can get WNBA players, just realize the power you have is political and, assuming democracy and capitalism are still running the show in the future, is fleeting.

Get what you can.

 

[AintLifeGrand]

great article below … Also womens ski racing is the best womens sport. True Queens

Mark Madden: Attendance doesn't lie when it comes to Brittney Griner's return to WNBA

Brittney Griner made her return to the WNBA on Friday when her Phoenix team visited Los Angeles. Griner missed the 2022 season while she was imprisoned 10 months in Russia for carrying a controlled substance (cannabis vape cartridges) through a Moscow airport. Vice President Kamala Harris...

triblive.com

Griner was jailed as per Russia’s drug laws. She didn’t storm the beach on D-Day. Nothing Griner did was even remotely heroic.

Before her incarceration, Griner didn’t stand for the national anthem before WNBA games. But she’s standing now. She had every right to not stand. But now, standing seems self-serving and convenient.

Oakmont teacher Marc Fogel remains jailed in Russia for a similar offense. Ex-Marine Paul Whelan remains imprisoned in Russia on spying charges. Why isn’t President Weekend at Bernie’s getting them freed?

Oh, right … it’s not a woke showbiz cause. They’re not worth turning loose an international arms dealer.

So that’s why Friday’s WNBA game in Los Angeles wasn’t sold out.

 

[McRpro]

lol they werent harassed…

Alex Stein (a public figure ) taunted Brittany Griner ( a public figure) in the DFW airport over legitimate issues regarding her character and hypocrisy.

Its absurd how the media/ certain people believe any criticism, humor directed at or light made of of the wnba is automatically branded a “bigot/sexist/ homophobic “ etc

Pretty comical how left-wing media made this seem like some sort of terrorist attack.

 

[Albatros]

Hard to see how the harasser being a certain Alex Stein changes anything.

 

[Hoverhand]

lol they werent harassed…

Alex Stein (a public figure ) taunted Brittany Griner ( a public figure) in the DFW airport over legitimate issues regarding her character and hypocrisy.

Its absurd how the media/ certain people believe any criticism, humor directed at or light made of of the wnba is automatically branded a “bigot/sexist/ homophobic “ etc

Pretty comical how left-wing media made this seem like some sort of terrorist attack.

Do you think it's okay to start running up to pro athletes in the street yelling questions at them about "hypocrisy" just because you're a public figure?? Do you think taunting someone unprovoked as they're trying to travel for their employment despite security trying to stop you is fine?

I get it, you don't like her, she shoulda known russian laws yadda yadda. Don't act like a looney in public because you don't like someone. She's not an authoritarian war monger, she's a goddamn basketball player.

 

[AintLifeGrand]

Hard to see how the harasser being a certain Alex Stein changes anything.

Do you think it's okay to start running up to pro athletes in the street yelling questions at them about "hypocrisy" just because you're a public figure?? Do you think taunting someone unprovoked as they're trying to travel for their employment despite security trying to stop you is fine?

I get it, you don't like her, she shoulda known russian laws yadda yadda. Don't act like a looney in public because you don't like someone. She's not an authoritarian war monger, she's a goddamn basketball player.

I personally would not conduct myself in that manner , but I don’t think pro athletes or any public athlete should have any special protection from scrutiny.

She wasn’t endangered, she definitely has a physical advantage over Alex Stein, its a non issue

This is just WNBA trying to further propogate a martyrdom and victimhood agenda