WNBA considering Bay Area, Nashville, Toronto, Austin, Denver, Charlotte, Philadelphia, Portland for expansion

[MMC]

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[PCSPounder]

Stated a day after the Liberty beat Las Vegas by 38. Not sure that’s a coincidence, since there have been reports out that certain owners were hesitant to expand.

Yeah, openly rooting for Portland. Curious to see if an ownership emerges. No, not counting on more than 2 every two years or so, if that.

 

[Reaser]

Yeah, openly rooting for Portland. Curious to see if an ownership emerges. No, not counting on more than 2 every two years or so, if that.

A 3rd go of it for Portland.

Power were in first place in the Western Conference when the ABL folded -- which the ABL was a superior quality to the WNBA.

The WNBA Fire didn't last long, though Jackie Stiles was fun to watch when she was in college.

 

[KevFu]

Combining two topics, if they added four teams and set divisions of four, they could play 4 vs conference, 1 vs non-conference for 36 games... INSTEAD of the current 4 vs 3 teams, 3 vs everyone else; and reduce cross-country travel from nine games to four.

 

[PCSPounder]

A 3rd go of it for Portland.

Power were in first place in the Western Conference when the ABL folded -- which the ABL was a superior quality to the WNBA.

The WNBA Fire didn't last long, though Jackie Stiles was fun to watch when she was in college.

Only the 2nd. The actual first, not a WNBA team, only died because the rival league did.

 

[Reaser]

Only the 2nd. The actual first, not a WNBA team, only died because the rival league did.

Yes, 3rd for major women's pro basketball. Why I included that they were in the ABL.

 

[famicommander]

Like any other indoor team in Denver, the Kroenkes would likely have to be involved for a WNBA team to succeed here.

We only have a few arenas.

Ball Arena - home of the Colorado Avalanche, Denver Nuggets (NBA), Colorado Mammoth (NLL). All owned by the Kroenke family. The Kroenkes also own the local cable sportsnet (even though only DirecTV and Fubo still carry it) and two local sports radio stations.

1stbank Center - too far out in the suburbs, scheduled to be torn down anyway

Denver Coliseum - seats about 10K but began construction in the 1940s. No air conditioning or heat, not very handicapped accessible, not enough parking, not enough concessions, not enough bathrooms, not in a good neighborhood (surrounding area includes an impound lot and a cemetary). Horrible venue that was considered outdated when McNichols was built in the 70s. Then McNichols was torn down and replaced with Ball Arena over 20 years ago, but the Coliseum still stands.

Magness Arena - Home of the University of Denver Pioneers basketball and hockey teams. Pretty small for a WNBA team, seats only 7200 for basketball. Main issue here is a lack of parking and the fact that events at DU often have ticket prices rivaling Nuggets and Avalanche games at Ball Arena. I just don't see how a WNBA team could afford it.

So yeah, basically if Stan/Ann Walton/Josh Kroenke decide they want a WNBA team, Denver will get one and it will be successful. If they don't I just don't see a path to success.

 

[GindyDraws]

Like any other indoor team in Denver, the Kroenkes would likely have to be involved for a WNBA team to succeed here.

We only have a few arenas.

Ball Arena - home of the Colorado Avalanche, Denver Nuggets (NBA), Colorado Mammoth (NLL). All owned by the Kroenke family. The Kroenkes also own the local cable sportsnet (even though only DirecTV and Fubo still carry it) and two local sports radio stations.

1stbank Center - too far out in the suburbs, scheduled to be torn down anyway

Denver Coliseum - seats about 10K but began construction in the 1940s. No air conditioning or heat, not very handicapped accessible, not enough parking, not enough concessions, not enough bathrooms, not in a good neighborhood (surrounding area includes an impound lot and a cemetary). Horrible venue that was considered outdated when McNichols was built in the 70s. Then McNichols was torn down and replaced with Ball Arena over 20 years ago, but the Coliseum still stands.

Magness Arena - Home of the University of Denver Pioneers basketball and hockey teams. Pretty small for a WNBA team, seats only 7200 for basketball. Main issue here is a lack of parking and the fact that events at DU often have ticket prices rivaling Nuggets and Avalanche games at Ball Arena. I just don't see how a WNBA team could afford it.

So yeah, basically if Stan/Ann Walton/Josh Kroenke decide they want a WNBA team, Denver will get one and it will be successful. If they don't I just don't see a path to success.

Denver Coliseum it is!

 

[famicommander]

Denver Coliseum it is!

I have been there probably 30 times for various events, mostly concerts, and I believe the bathrooms were flooded at least 8 or 9 of those times. Maybe more.

 

[GindyDraws]

I have been there probably 30 times for various events, mostly concerts, and I believe the bathrooms were flooded at least 8 or 9 of those times. Maybe more.

Didn't the city pass a bond issue to look into replacing the arena on the property back in 2015?

 

[famicommander]

Didn't the city pass a bond issue to look into replacing the arena on the property back in 2015?

Yeah, it apparently didn't go anywhere. I don't really keep up with local (or any) politics but last I heard the National Western Complex people were asking for money to build an arena nearby and didn't get it either.

With the 1stbank Center in Broomfield getting torn down and the Coliseum being decrepit it would make sense for a new 8-12K seat arena to be built somewhere in town. I just don't know if anyone wants to put up the cash to actually do it.

 

[Mike C]

Combining two topics, if they added four teams and set divisions of four, they could play 4 vs conference, 1 vs non-conference for 36 games... INSTEAD of the current 4 vs 3 teams, 3 vs everyone else; and reduce cross-country travel from nine games to four.

See that, then they could Amtrak it and cut all this chitty chat about flying charter!

I like the way you think Kev!

 

[joelef]

They’ve been saying this for the last 5 years are so. I’ll believe it when I see it.

 

[HisIceness]

If the WNBA really wants a Carolina-based franchise they ought to look at Columbia, SC. Would be a very small market but U of South Carolina has a successful NCAAW program that has (I'm pretty sure) produced several stars of the WNBA.

Charlotte, Raleigh, Greensboro etc probably wouldn't care all that much. Columbia I think could have a shot at being an intriguing market.

 

[MMC]

How important is gate revenue to this league?

 

[DaveG]

If the WNBA really wants a Carolina-based franchise they ought to look at Columbia, SC. Would be a very small market but U of South Carolina has a successful NCAAW program that has (I'm pretty sure) produced several stars of the WNBA.

Charlotte, Raleigh, Greensboro etc probably wouldn't care all that much. Columbia I think could have a shot at being an intriguing market.

Beat me to it. Charlotte doesn't even support the Hornets all that well currently, I don't think there's anything to indicate that the city would have an overly strong interest in a WNBA team. Take a note from Connecticut and if you put a team in the region put them near USC.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

To be fair though, the only thing that Hornets fans have had to cheer about the last 15+ years was a rebrand. My hunch would be that Charlotte would be a pro basketball hotbed if they merely had routinely decent teams.

 

[Reaser]

The WNBA already had a Carolina based team, the Charlotte Sting. They existed for 10 years and were in the bottom half of attendance every year, last in the league in attendance 3x and second-to-last 4x. So 7 of 10 years were worst or second worst in attendance.

With none of the excuses people like to use in similar "no one cares this team exists" situations; like a bad team (they went to the WNBA Finals and playoffs 6 of first 7 seasons) or a bad arena (played in the NBA arena including moving into the brand new NBA arena), etc..

There's a reason they folded.

Though, it was over a decade and a half ago, but there's nothing new to suggest that Charlotte would all of a sudden be huge supporters of a WNBA team.

 

[Cynicaps]

Charlotte, Raleigh, Greensboro etc probably wouldn't care all that much. Columbia I think could have a shot at being an intriguing market.

I think Raleigh would care more than Charlotte. They support the NWSL well and your only other competition are USL's NCFC and the MiLB teams in Durham and Zebulon. CFC has taken a lot of the sports oxygen out of Charlotte and people sleep on the Triangle as a market when there are as many people to go around with less options.

Columbia would be a bit of a gamble and had a very low ceiling.

Though, it was over a decade and a half ago, but there's nothing new to suggest that Charlotte would all of a sudden be huge supporters of a WNBA team.

If MLS is any indication, Charlotte would go whole hog in a heartbeat on the WNBA. Remember, Charlotte had worse USL support than the Triangle and was behind the Triangle in every metric but "willing billionaire with a stadium to use" when it came to MLS.

 

[tarheelhockey]

there's nothing new to suggest that Charlotte would all of a sudden be huge supporters of a WNBA team.

Well, it would be the best basketball team in town.

 

[HisIceness]

The WNBA already had a Carolina based team, the Charlotte Sting. They existed for 10 years and were in the bottom half of attendance every year, last in the league in attendance 3x and second-to-last 4x. So 7 of 10 years were worst or second worst in attendance.

With none of the excuses people like to use in similar "no one cares this team exists" situations; like a bad team (they went to the WNBA Finals and playoffs 6 of first 7 seasons) or a bad arena (played in the NBA arena including moving into the brand new NBA arena), etc..

There's a reason they folded.

Though, it was over a decade and a half ago, but there's nothing new to suggest that Charlotte would all of a sudden be huge supporters of a WNBA team.

Part of their problem was playing at the relic known as the Charlotte Coliseum and being associated with the old Hornets who left on bad terms. The Sting were popular the first 2-3 years and even made a trip to the Finals one year, something the Hornets then and now haven't done.

The goodwill they did have faded about 2002 even if it directly wasn't their fault. By the time they moved to the new arena (and had Muggsy Bouges as coach) it was known they were going to at best, relocate (IIRC Dallas)

I think Raleigh would care more than Charlotte. They support the NWSL well and your only other competition are USL's NCFC and the MiLB teams in Durham and Zebulon. CFC has taken a lot of the sports oxygen out of Charlotte and people sleep on the Triangle as a market when there are as many people to go around with less options.

Columbia would be a bit of a gamble and had a very low ceiling.



If MLS is any indication, Charlotte would go whole hog in a heartbeat on the WNBA. Remember, Charlotte had worse USL support than the Triangle and was behind the Triangle in every metric but "willing billionaire with a stadium to use" when it came to MLS.

I think Raleigh would be the same as Charlotte. Columbia would be risky but I think there's a better chance of fan interest there not just because of the success of the college team and the players they produce but also sort of brings some sense of a major league presence to the city. Raleigh and Charlotte already have this.

 

[HisIceness]

To be fair though, the only thing that Hornets fans have had to cheer about the last 15+ years was a rebrand. My hunch would be that Charlotte would be a pro basketball hotbed if they merely had routinely decent teams.

I tell newcomers this all the time, up until about time Shinn started passing everyone off from the city to his business partners, the Hornets were hot. Tickets were hard to get. Everyone loved the teal and purple.

Ironically, their best teams came after everyone stopped caring. The Zo and LJ years were short-lived and they went on to have success elsewhere. The team anchored by Baron Davis saw their best playoff run (2001) and overall best stretch of play.

The rebrand had a short shelf life and is more remembered now for screwing up Kembas prime and overpaying Nic Batum among several others.

 

[MMC]

 

[Voight]

If the WNBA really wants a Carolina-based franchise they ought to look at Columbia, SC. Would be a very small market but U of South Carolina has a successful NCAAW program that has (I'm pretty sure) produced several stars of the WNBA.

Charlotte, Raleigh, Greensboro etc probably wouldn't care all that much. Columbia I think could have a shot at being an intriguing market.

They'd have to find an owner willing to hemorrhage money.

At least in Charlotte the NBA can ask/convince the new Hornets owners to do so.

 

[famicommander]

Well, the guy certainly has the money. He's the founder and CEO of a company that had over 1 billion in revenues in 2022.

Article says he's touring potential venues with the WNBA commissioner. But, again, there are really only 3 basketball venues in the city that can even seat 3000 people.

So hopefully he's planning to cut Kroenke in for a minority share so the team can play at Ball Arena. Or, at worst, the DU Pioneers hockey/basketball arena.

Please, for the love of god, not the Denver Coliseum.

EDIT: the Denver Post has a much better article up

Denver investors making play for WNBA expansion team as league commissioner visits this week, source says

A trio of Denver investors are making a pitch for a WNBA expansion team as the league plans its expansion

www.denverpost.com

It mentions they are specifically looking at Ball and DU's Magness Arena. No mention of the Coliseum, thankfully.

Navin Dimond and his daughter Ashley are mentioned as Cohen's partners. Dimond owns Stonebridge, a chain of 65 hotels, and Ashley is his chief strategist.

Former Denver Nuggets player and current broadcaster Bill Hanzlik is involved as a nonprofit partner. He has done charity work with Cohen in the past.

They are seeking minority and celebrity investors to add to the group. Hopefully they can entice a Kroenke and thereby get a cozy spot at Ball Arena with the other indoor teams.