WJC: the favorite

[Rabid Ranger]

I am not surprised at all by some people forgetting how Canada was predicted (by Canadians) to manhandle the US before the game, yet the US came out and was clearly more physical in the first period and matched Canada's physical play throughout the game.


Not to mention the addition of guys like Pineault, Schremp (should make it), Johnson (should make it), Thelen (should make it), and Hensick.

It's the same thing every year around this place. All the pro-Canada posters come out and say they'll dominate, and when the tourney is over... they're no where to be found.

IMO, we'll have an even more talented team this year. The offensive talent is going to be sick, the blueline will have guys like Thelen and maybe Lashoff and Nickerson, and we bring back Montoya. What's not to like? Alot it would seem, especially if you're a Canadian.

 

[Postman]

Last year, the Canadian defense manhandled many of the teams, the Americans included.

To say they manhandled the whole team is ridiculous. They were able to with a few of the smaller defensemen, however, this year they should have a bigger defense with guys like Johnson (very tough), Thelen, and Nickerson (an absolute monster) available.

The Americans winning goal was a fluke. 99/100 I'd say that MAF plays that differently. It was a judgement error on his part...he hesitated and ended up paying for it. Life goes on though.

What about their 2nd goal, or the tying goal? Were they flukes too?

Everyone likes to put the blame on Fleury, but the reality is, the U.S. took over in the third period after a bad 2nd period and took advantage of every chance they had. The Canadian defense simply didn't do their jobs, and guys like Kesler were able to walk right infront of the net to bang home key goals.

The US will be good again, but I think they will take a hit losing some of their "key" players. Canada won't have lost many, if any of their "key" players...and our goaltending is usually quite supberb in these tourny's...and there's no reason to believe that won't be thet case again this year!

To give an inexperienced goalie the benefit of the doubt at this point is a bit premature. Goaltending is definitely the question mark for Canada and we really don't know how that'll go until the tourney begins.

 

[jcpenny]

I think that we are forgetting that the U.S will host the tournament this year. They will be pumped thats for sure. But i cant wait to see:

Horton-Crosby-Bergeron
Stewart-Carter-Dawes

Wow i cant wait, this will be one of the best WJC tournament.

 

[HabLover]

Well, being the strongest on paper is pretty much what one means by 'favourite'.

Canada was better on paper last year, but were not the favourites heading into the tourney. So there goes your theory spanky!

 

[HabLover]

Yeah, the U.S. lost Parise, Mark Stuart, and James Wiesnewski, but return the key player in Al Montoya, and bring back guys like Ryan Suter, Drew Stafford, and Patrick O'Sullivan. Something tells me we'll be fine.

Well, we will see what he's made of this year! I don't think he was really challenged until the Gold Medal game last year and Canada had him and his team on the ropes but couldn't finish it off. When the game was 3 - 1 last year, Canada could've easily made it 6 - 1, but Montoya made some key saves to allow his team to get back into and they did. He may have to be better than that this year if the USA and Canada meet again.

 

[Hiishawk]

Canada was better on paper last year, but were not the favourites heading into the tourney. So there goes your theory spanky!

Ok.So what IS the criteria for being a favourite then?

The WJCs have such a high rate of player turnover each year that 'on ice jelling' is an issue for every team. Being the previous champion also means relatively little for the same reason. Therefore you ar left with a combination of number&quality of returnees plus quality rating of new players as a criteria. This 'paper formula' ((number and quality of returnees) implies jelling (they played together last year, so...)
I suppose being the home team could be considered a factor but in reality it hasn't been.

 

[Hiishawk]

Canada was better on paper last year, but were not the favourites heading into the tourney. So there goes your theory spanky!

Come to think of it, Canada generally WASN'T considered the favourite going into last year's tourney. They had only two returnees, Finland had several key returnees and Russia even more. Given this, Russia, to many, looked better 'on paper' andwere thus were considered by many to be the favourite. Finland was also the pick of many.

 

[espo*]

well I was banned for all of the world cup so I couldn't post.

I believe the US was favored last year to win the tournament and when they had to face canada in the finals everyone said "OH Canada will EASILY win this game, they're the favorite now!!!111".

The reason Canada lost last year we because of goaltending, but now that they have a question mark again this year, they're the favorite? Makes no sense to me. I don't care how many good forwards or defenseman they have, it's goaltending that wins games in the end. Montoya is the best goalie in this tournament and with most of the US team returning I'd consider them the favorite. That, and they're the defending champs playing in their home country.

No one can give a legit reason to think Canada is the favorite coming in except that the same team that choked last year is a year older and they'll have an untested goalie (which doesn't matter right?)

See you this christmas.

Reilly!!you seemed to pretty reasonable there,lol.I'd have to agree with some of your post there.Well,maybe you have the best goaltender this year but keep your fingers crossed because we thought we had the best goaltender last year going in but alas...did'nt turn out that way.Like i've said before,goaltending is a funny thing,maybe Montoya isn't sharp this year...who knows,ya never know until the games start.If he is sharp then they've got a good shot like you said,goaltending wins games.If he's not then they are toast because from the defense out i don't think they will be as solid as last year and last year that team was'nt as good as basically the same Canadian team coming back this year so i'd be concerned.I think Canada is the favorite even with the goaltending question marks..I'm sure most observers look at their line-up and say"man they are loaded,they can't keep finishing second forever with line-ups like that,surely they gotta get the goaltending one of these days? "that's why they would be considered the favorite even with the goalie questions.
We'll have to wait and see but i can't see this team choking at all if they get the goaltending.They would'nt have chocked last year if they had gotten it,i've already explained why.That title the U.S has right now would'nt exist if we had gotten the goaltending but we did'nt so the title is yours.This year....who knows but on paper Canada is a stronger team but paper means nothing.I'll be here in december also so don't worry..i can take the heat so don't go getting banned before all of us can discuss just what went down,lol.

 

[espo*]

I am not surprised at all by some people forgetting how Canada was predicted (by Canadians) to manhandle the US before the game, yet the US came out and was clearly more physical in the first period and matched Canada's physical play throughout the game.


Not to mention the addition of guys like Pineault, Schremp (should make it), Johnson (should make it), Thelen (should make it), and Hensick.

It's the same thing every year around this place. All the pro-Canada posters come out and say they'll dominate, and when the tourney is over... they're no where to be found.

I'll be here.I think we'll win and if we don't i'll stand here and take the heat but i'm confident this year we'll take the gold(should have last year,had the better team)Goaltending is the thing,if we get it i say we'll walk away with the gold,if not...it won't happen.I doubt you guys will be as strong but who knows,you have some nice peices coming back so it's possible but you're in tough to repeat and i don't think it will happen,home crowd should help you but i don't think it'll be enough.We''ll see but i'm not going anywhere don't worry.

 

[espo*]

IMO, we'll have an even more talented team this year. The offensive talent is going to be sick, the blueline will have guys like Thelen and maybe Lashoff and Nickerson, and we bring back Montoya. What's not to like? Alot it would seem, especially if you're a Canadian.

You'll be strong but i doubt you are as talented as last year,actually maybe you will be ?i did'nt think your team was actually near as talented as it's press clippings last year at all.To me,you had one and a half lines and three quality defenseman and a real good goaltender,the rest of the team was just run of the mill.Maybe you've got a better handle on what team you're sending this year then me and know they will be very good but they'll have to be better then the team that won last year because the competition from everyone(not just Canada) will be much better imo.good luck...you'll need it.As a Canadian hockey fan i respect your team but i'm not worried..i think we'll handle you this year and i'm looking forward to the challenge for sure.I'm chilling the beer as we speak,lol

 

[Roughneck]

The reason Canada lost last year we because of goaltending, but now that they have a question mark again this year, they're the favorite?

You seem to have the idea that Canada has no good goalies this year? The question mark is that we have no undisputed #1. Shantz, Nastiuk, Beauchemin, Munce, Dubnyk are all good goalies. We don't have a star, but if you think the dropoff in the skill level our goalies is so much that it will cause a roster with 3 NHL/AHLers and 18 returning players to not be considered the favorite, you are sorely mistaken. The only goalies better in this tournament going in than the ones Canada can play are Montoya and Schwarz. But the US and the Czechs don't have Canada's defense core, 4 of which are returning, all of which are top defensemen in their league, and could be a top 3 defensemen on any team in the tournament.

Makes no sense to me. I don't care how many good forwards or defenseman they have, it's goaltending that wins games in the end. Montoya is the best goalie in this tournament and with most of the US team returning I'd consider them the favorite. That, and they're the defending champs playing in their home country.

So you have a team that lost its leaders and is playing in front of a home crowd and expect no pressure to be put on their shoulders? Yes goaltending wins games in the end. But Fleury was the best goalie going into last years tournament as well. And stellar goaltending doesn't necessarily win you championships. Fleury stood on his head in Halifax and still couldn't win the gold, mainly because Canada didn't have the skill up front that they could have.

No one can give a legit reason to think Canada is the favorite coming in except that the same team that choked last year is a year older and they'll have an untested goalie (which doesn't matter right?)

Hmm, the US was considered the favorite last year with an untested goalie. But I guess there's a double standard right. I mean they had a bunch of returning players that couldn't pull through the year before, its not the same thing I guess.

 

[Postman]

(should have last year,had the better team)

Since when does the better team lose?

They may have had the better team on paper, but as some of us have come to learn, that means nothing on the ice. The U.S. proved to be the better team, so get over it.

 

[Sammy*]

Since when does the better team lose?

They may have had the better team on paper, but as some of us have come to learn, that means nothing on the ice. The U.S. proved to be the better team, so get over it.

The better teams loses lots in a best of 1.
And btw, does winning and performing well in a grand total of 1 WJC in recent memory entitle one to be a xenophobe?
.

 

[Postman]

The better teams loses lots in a best of 1.

True, but some people fail to grasp the difference between a team with better INDIVIDUAL talent, and a better TEAM. Last year Canada may have been a team with better individual talent, but the USA were a better team in 2/3 periods and that's all that mattered.

And btw, does winning and performing well in a grand total of 1 WJC in recent memory entitle one to be a xenophobe?
.

You'll have to ask Reilly311.

And please, drop the bitter attitude. Canada is the favorite this year, so why keep dwelling on the past? I notice it's a common trait among some Canadian posters.

 

[ALF AmericanLionsFan]

USA
Canada
Russia

 

[espo*]

Since when does the better team lose?

They may have had the better team on paper, but as some of us have come to learn, that means nothing on the ice. The U.S. proved to be the better team, so get over it.

I think you're only half right here.First,as for me "getting over it" well,it's difficult for me to do being the rabid fan i am when i know we were the better team as far as forwards and defense are concerned,geez,we had you guys and should have put you away and i've watched enough hockey in my day to know we were stronger than the U.S team.Our young guys were more talented and skilled than yours across the board but as i've already said ,tentative play due to lack of confidence in our goaltending did the canucks in,simple as that to me,watch the game again if you need to.However,considering the very real truth that a goaltender is part of the team then yes,i guess the States did in the end have the better team,though i don't know how confident i will ever be in saying that when their winning goal comes from a bonehead play by fleury(goaltender again) which goes off someones back.Call me crazy but that's not some mindblowing 3 on 2 passing play that left you with the gold medal around your neck.So in that sense it's difficult for me to get over it but winning this year should go a long way towards erasing the fiasco that was last year.
As for better team on paper,last year the U. S was considered to have the best team on paper but that clearly was'nt the case in my eyes once i had gotten a look at both teams.I was really confident going into that game i'll tell ya.I had seen both teams play and could tell we were more talented and that the U.S was'nt as good as advertised, and we were downgraded going in because we had a young team.For two periods my faith was justified and the U.S was outplayed by better hockey players from first to forth line and then..........misery.
Anyway,no matter.It's you guys on the hot seat this year,everyone's gunning for you,believe it,maybe you have the horses again to take it but i don't think you do.If you are counting on some ungodly lucky bounce to seal the deal this year you've got a gamble on your hands with terrible odds.I don't think this year there is anything i am going to have to get over(please) You are in unfamiliar territory U.S hockey(defending champs) Lot's of pressure and lot's of expectations in front of the home fans,you'll miss the veteran leadership of a guy like Parise and Stuart,it's gonna be a grind and i don't think the team you will have has got the goods but thats what the games are for. Hopefully we'll all be around to talk about this when it begins and ends...December is not far away of course.We'll be ready for you,game on gentlemen

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Being a Canadian, I think we have the best team on paper.....I'm still afraid of the Americans though, they have to many players that can explode during every shift.

I'm blaming Canada if our players start to explode each shift...

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Since when does the better team lose?

They may have had the better team on paper, but as some of us have come to learn, that means nothing on the ice. The U.S. proved to be the better team, so get over it.

Amen.

 

[Postman]

Our young guys were more talented and skilled than yours across the board but as i've already said ,tentative play due to lack of confidence in our goaltending did the canucks in,simple as that to me,watch the game again if you need to.

Oh yeah, sure. The U.S. didn't even have to show up, the Canadians beat themselves. Typical blind view, unable to admit the accomplishments of the other team.

However,considering the very real truth that a goaltender is part of the team then yes,i guess the States did in the end have the better team,

I know that was very difficult for you. So please, step away if you need to, and take a deep breath.

though i don't know how confident i will ever be in saying that when their winning goal comes from a bonehead play by fleury(goaltender again) which goes off someones back.Call me crazy but that's not some mindblowing 3 on 2 passing play that left you with the gold medal around your neck.

You sure you're not the one that needs to watch it again? What about going into the third period down 3-1, and coming back from that with hard work and determination? Or O'Sullivan's insane wrist shot over Fleury's shoulder? The U.S. had all the momentum going their way and Canada along with Fleury felt it, that's why he made the panic play. Sure, it was a flukey goal, but it was a result of pressure put on by the U.S. Fleury wouldn't have made that mistake if he was in a comfortable position to win and had time to make a play.

So in that sense it's difficult for me to get over it but winning this year should go a long way towards erasing the fiasco that was last year.

Let's wait until the tourney starts before we crown the winner.

As for better team on paper,last year the U. S was considered to have the best team on paper but that clearly was'nt the case in my eyes once i had gotten a look at both teams.

Actually, they were considered the favorites because they were made up of mostly 19 year olds (like Canada this year). And the same thing many Canadian posters are saying this year, were said last year as well. That they were "better on paper" than the U.S.

I was really confident going into that game i'll tell ya.I had seen both teams play and could tell we were more talented and that the U.S was'nt as good as advertised, and we were downgraded going in because we had a young team.For two periods my faith was justified and the U.S was outplayed by better hockey players from first to forth line and then..........misery.

Honestly, you may very well need to take your own advice and watch the game once again. Canada outplayed the U.S. in two periods? The first period was even AT BEST (I feel the U.S. was stronger in the first 10 minutes, with the 2nd half of the 1st was more evenly played), while the 2nd period was clearly Canada and the third period was all USA.

i don't think the team you will have has got the goods but thats what the games are for.

Finally, I think you're starting to realize.

 

[Reilly311]

Since when does the better team lose?

duh, whenever canada loses. (which has been a lot since 1997)

 

[Reilly311]

I think you're only half right here.First,as for me "getting over it" well,it's difficult for me to do being the rabid fan i am when i know we were the better team as far as forwards and defense are concerned,geez,we had you guys and should have put you away and i've watched enough hockey in my day to know we were stronger than the U.S team.Our young guys were more talented and skilled than yours across the board but as i've already said ,tentative play due to lack of confidence in our goaltending did the canucks in,simple as that to me,watch the game again if you need to.However,considering the very real truth that a goaltender is part of the team then yes,i guess the States did in the end have the better team,though i don't know how confident i will ever be in saying that when their winning goal comes from a bonehead play by fleury(goaltender again) which goes off someones back.Call me crazy but that's not some mindblowing 3 on 2 passing play that left you with the gold medal around your neck.So in that sense it's difficult for me to get over it but winning this year should go a long way towards erasing the fiasco that was last year.
As for better team on paper,last year the U. S was considered to have the best team on paper but that clearly was'nt the case in my eyes once i had gotten a look at both teams.I was really confident going into that game i'll tell ya.I had seen both teams play and could tell we were more talented and that the U.S was'nt as good as advertised, and we were downgraded going in because we had a young team.For two periods my faith was justified and the U.S was outplayed by better hockey players from first to forth line and then..........misery.
Anyway,no matter.It's you guys on the hot seat this year,everyone's gunning for you,believe it,maybe you have the horses again to take it but i don't think you do.If you are counting on some ungodly lucky bounce to seal the deal this year you've got a gamble on your hands with terrible odds.I don't think this year there is anything i am going to have to get over(please) You are in unfamiliar territory U.S hockey(defending champs) Lot's of pressure and lot's of expectations in front of the home fans,you'll miss the veteran leadership of a guy like Parise and Stuart,it's gonna be a grind and i don't think the team you will have has got the goods but thats what the games are for. Hopefully we'll all be around to talk about this when it begins and ends...December is not far away of course.We'll be ready for you,game on gentlemen

par·a·graph
n.

1. A distinct division of written or printed matter that begins on a new, usually indented line, consists of one or more sentences, and typically deals with a single thought or topic or quotes one speaker's continuous words.

 

[espo*]

Ah the paragraphs.I don't care Reilly,stick to hockey not english lit class.Give me the goods not some drivel about paragraphs which is only meant to poke fun at and not talk hockey.Anyway,hey...i just think we'll beat you this year,end of story.Can you win?sure.Do i think you guys will win....NO.I'm not crowning anyone i'm just saying i think we'll win and we will beat you guys when(if) we play you and i'm looking forward to the game.Fortune was with you last year,i don't think it will be this year.As for watching the game again i guess i can but i don't think i'll see anything different.Over two periods that game was'nt even and the score indicated as such.
I'm starting my paragraphs,lol.Hey...given a choice between winning it last year and beating U.S hockey in their own backyard i'll take North Dakota anyday.Like i said before,Sutter's boys will be ready.Get your dukes up fellas it ain't far away. The continued back and forth sparring here is a lot of fun and lends a lot to getting up for the tourney(not that i need a lot of help) That is...if you can actually get the tourney where you guys live.No such worries here

 

[espo*]

hmmm....the paragraphs did'nt work for me.I indented it but when i posted there it is.I guess it isn't meant to be.

 

[Postman]

Over two periods that game was'nt even and the score indicated as such.

Actually, it was 1-1 after the first. If I remember correctly, the shots were pretty close as well. So to say the 1st period went to Canada is a bit of a stretch. And I already admitted the 2nd period went to Canada.

Get your dukes up fellas it ain't far away. The continued back and forth sparring here is a lot of fun and lends a lot to getting up for the tourney(not that i need a lot of help)

Likewise.

 

[espo*]

Oh postman,yes,o' sullivans goal was nice,but thats the only one.Credit where credit is due.The other three? Nah......Especially that beauty number for the game winner,what a classic!!!