Line Combos: With the addition of Orlov, how do you see the defense pairings?

[The Laukomotive]

If you don’t mind…do you have PK time for forwards? Curious whose time Hathaway’s 1:18 came from

Probably from Frederic and Greer. They didn't play in the PK tonight and had 0:46 and 0:45 against the Islanders, 0:28 and 0:34 against the Senators and 0:43 and 0:07 against the Kraken.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Probably from Frederic and Greer. They didn't play in the PK tonight and had 0:46 and 0:45 against the Islanders, 0:28 and 0:34 against the Senators and 0:43 and 0:07 against the Kraken.

I would have guessed Nosek took Frederic. But I don’t think Greer has been PKing much

 

[burstnbloom]

Yeah but it’s not one or two instances. It’s a MAJOR swing and a large sample size.

At some point you still have to consider what the actual results are in your analysis.

I want to be clear - I like Gryz. And I think the criticisms of his playoff play are way overblown.

But you don’t go from an overwhelming positive during the regular season to the complete opposite in the playoffs and explain it away with a bad line change.

It's been hashed and rehashed but you've said the truth out loud. If his regular season underlying numbers match his playoff underlying numbers but his actuals are way different, its probably a sampling of bad fortune.

It happens in both directions. Look at Tanner Jeannot. Never scored in the A, comes up in the NHL and scores 24 goals because he shot 20%. Was last year indicative of true talent? No of course not - this year his s% normalizes and he has 5 goals. His ixG, shots/60 and deployment are all the same or btter this year. Yet last year was a large sample size right? Not large enough, everything regressed this is who he is. It's the same with Gryz.

 

[The Laukomotive]

I would have guessed Nosek took Frederic. But I don’t think Greer has been PKing much

The other thing is Coyle and Zacha seem to have played relatively less minutes 5 on 4 then the past few games .

 

[FU Shoresy]

Forbort-Orlov ain’t it!

1st time they ever played together. 1st time Orlov has played the right side in forever. There's gonna be some tinkering with pairings to see where everyone fits. Lets give it a few weeks. D-men take time to gel.

 

[PlayMakers]

He’s a positive every single year in the regular season.

He’s a negative every single year in the playoffs

-17 over 59 games in five different playoff years. That’s far more than “6 goals you can watch”.

Again, I’m not the one making the case that he’s too small for the post-season. I’m not even saying he’s bad or shouldn’t play. You can have those arguments with the size queens and I’ll back you up. In fact, I have in the past.

But even though I don’t know what it is, there is SOMETHING there. Something is happening in the post-season that differs from the regular season with Gryz. The results are not only inconsistent, they’re night-and-day.

I think the minus is the result of a lack of offense, more than a failure on defense.

Gryz has been on the ice for 45 goals against in 59 playoff games. McAvoy has been on the ice for 56 goals against in 65 playoff games. Obviously McAvoy isn't incapable of defending in the playoffs. There is nothing inherently wrong with him because of all those playoff goals allowed.

On the other hand, lack of depth scoring in the playoffs has been the biggest criticism of the Bruins (by Sweeney and Neely) in recent years. Gryz has been on the ice for 22 playoff goals for, playing primarily with Charlie Coyle and Sean Kuraly. McAvoy has been on the ice for 57 playoff goals for playing almost exclusively with the Bergeron line. Some of that is on Gryz for not scoring himself, but the analytics show he does create tons of opportunities for his line mates.

Fwiw, I understand he has faults. I'm a supporter and I think there are things he does defensively better than most of the league but obviously winning physical battles is not a strength. I just don't see that correlating to goals against the way people here make it out to be. Folks blamed him for Carolina, so I watched the goals and saw him make mistakes like a bad pinch, but none of the goals were him getting overpowered. Folks blamed him for the Islander's series and it's true that he was terrible in the final game, but the previous 10 games (5 Isles, 5 Caps) he was excellent against size. He was excellent against size vs Columbus (+1). The one team that I think really got to him was Tampa back in 2018 and it's the reason I still don't like seeing Gryz-Clifton paired together.

To answer your original question, I would go with...

Gryz-McAvoy
Lindholm-Clifton
Orlov-Carlo

and condense to...

Lindholm-McAvoy
Orlov-Carlo

for the last 10 minutes of a game if we need to protect the lead.

 

[BourqueFromORRk4277]

Someone would have to do a deep dive on the shifts, but I bet it's because they play Forbort more when they're protecting a lead.

Or that pairing got stuck in some long shifts in the defensive zone.

 

[Shoebottom88]

I think the minus is the result of a lack of offense, more than a failure on defense.

Gryz has been on the ice for 45 goals against in 59 playoff games. McAvoy has been on the ice for 56 goals against in 65 playoff games. Obviously McAvoy isn't incapable of defending in the playoffs. There is nothing inherently wrong with him because of all those playoff goals allowed.

On the other hand, lack of depth scoring in the playoffs has been the biggest criticism of the Bruins (by Sweeney and Neely) in recent years. Gryz has been on the ice for 22 playoff goals for, playing primarily with Charlie Coyle and Sean Kuraly. McAvoy has been on the ice for 57 playoff goals for playing almost exclusively with the Bergeron line. Some of that is on Gryz for not scoring himself, but the analytics show he does create tons of opportunities for his line mates.

Fwiw, I understand he has faults. I'm a supporter and I think there are things he does defensively better than most of the league but obviously winning physical battles is not a strength. I just don't see that correlating to goals against the way people here make it out to be. Folks blamed him for Carolina, so I watched the goals and saw him make mistakes like a bad pinch, but none of the goals were him getting overpowered. Folks blamed him for the Islander's series and it's true that he was terrible in the final game, but the previous 10 games (5 Isles, 5 Caps) he was excellent against size. He was excellent against size vs Columbus (+1). The one team that I think really got to him was Tampa back in 2018 and it's the reason I still don't like seeing Gryz-Clifton paired together.

To answer your original question, I would go with...

Gryz-McAvoy
Lindholm-Clifton
Orlov-Carlo

and condense to...

Lindholm-McAvoy
Orlov-Carlo

for the last 10 minutes of a game if we need to protect the lead.

So you’re saying that if Gryz played with the Bergeron line in the playoffs, he would have been on the ice for around 57 goals for. Damn, keep him with Coyle’s line then so we don’t have to pay him $10 million per. Or are you saying the coaching staff thinks he’s too short? There is a lot of stuff that goes on on the ice that stats don’t pick up.

 

[The don godfather]

Leaving forbert out of the lineup just doesnt sound right. The guys been a warrior shot blocking machine . Who sits is beyond me .

 

[Colt.45Orr]

Bourque--McAvoy
Sweeney--Orlov
Wesley----Lindholm

Similarities abound.

Orlov--McAvoy
Lindholm--Carlo
Forb/Gryz--Cliffy​

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

Orlov -- McAvoy

Lindholm -- Carlo

FLEX -- Clifton

depth: Grz, Forbort, Zboril, Reilly, Stralman

I'd like to see us add one more RD that's a better option than Stralman and move out Reilly/Zboril to get that done.


I also like the idea of having one of McAvoy, Lindholm, and Orlov out on the ice for the entire game. In that scenerio, Grz is in the lineup next to McAvoy.


Grz -- McAvoy

Lindholm -- Carlo

Orlov -- Clifton

When healthy, this is how I see it:
McAvoy, Lindholm, Carlo to be the mainstays
Orlov most likely on the roster
Grzelcyk, Forbort, Clifton, 2/3 of this guys will be in the lineup at minimum and rotated depending on matchups
Zboril, Reilly, Strahlman cycled through but unless injuries happen, none of these guys are on the dressed roster at the same time.

We have a lot of depth right now and I personally hope they are able to keep the guys fresh. as well as the guys that aren't daily lineup players.

I think Montgomery's ability to mix and match the pairings and everyone's familiarity with playing up and down the lineup is beneficial.

 

[bob77]

Or that pairing got stuck in some long shifts in the defensive zone.

That didn’t happen. In fact, Gryz had just as many shifts over a minute than Forbort. Forbort’s might have been PK, idk. The difference is in Forbort played 25 shifts and Grz played 20. And yes, this is because we were leading, IMO also. If we were losing, this would be the other way around.

 

[bob77]

1st time they ever played together. 1st time Orlov has played the right side in forever. There's gonna be some tinkering with pairings to see where everyone fits. Lets give it a few weeks. D-men take time to gel.

I do feel Orlov struggled a bit on the right side. Mostly with being on his backhand for breakouts out of his corner. The goal against was sort of on him also, although Forbort ends up looking like the culprit because he’s trying to rush back to the front of the net to guard Orlov side. Orlov was trying to poke the puck to Bergy, like a D to D, but no D was there. Probably a play he makes hundreds of times to a RD partner, except here his is the RD.

 

[DKH]

Forbort really should be the #7 unless we are gettin absolutely bullied or the PK starts struggling.

His 5v5 play is not good enough

I’m a Forbort guy and proponent of 7 good D (how long did Boychuk & McQuaid wait practice after practice staying late with Craig Ramsey - I miss those Ristuccia days) BUT yoi are bang on

Orlov needs to play with McAvoy

I expect a fast Oilers team has Clifton in

They need to get Orlov comfortable BUT off side with rotating partners

Really Monty ???? REALLY!!!!!

 

[JoeIsAStud]

I’m a Forbort guy and proponent of 7 good D (how long did Boychuk & McQuaid wait practice after practice staying late with Craig Ramsey - I miss those Ristuccia days) BUT yoi are bang on

Orlov needs to play with McAvoy

I expect a fast Oilers team has Clifton in

They need to get Orlov comfortable BUT off side with rotating partners

Really Monty ???? REALLY!!!!!

Yeah I would have never dressed him given he has never practiced with the team, but yeah it wasn't exactly putting him into position to thrive.

monty will do some experimenting over the next 4 weeks or so, but honestly also will need to settle some guys in with potential partners so they can learn how to communicate, and learn tendencies etc.

 

[Beesfan]

The biggest puzzle to me this trade deadline was why the Bruins were targeting the left side defense rather than the right, where Clifton is the most unproven player. Now that I see those playoff stats with Grz, I am convinced it is to give themselves an option to take him out of the lineup.

My conviction is always that you play the best players where they are most effective. That means Orlov on the left side. So I would run like this:

Orlov - McAvoy
Lindholm - Carlo
Forbort - Grzelcyk
Clifton

The Bruins don't want Clifton and Grz in a playoff lineup. I am convinced of that. Grz plays the right side effectively and can perform well on a bottom pair. Let him battle with Clifton for the final spot.

 

[quietbruinfan]

I would go
Gryz Mac
Hl Cliffy
Orlov Carlo puts Orlov on his much weaker side but can't win em all. Unfortunately, Monty does not like Cliffy or Gryzz nearly as much as me.

 

[westmass]

I would go
Gryz Mac
Hl Cliffy
Orlov Carlo puts Orlov on his much weaker side but can't win em all. Unfortunately, Monty does not like Cliffy or Gryzz nearly as much as me.

Posters have mentioned Forbort is weak on 5 v 5 play. That was evident against Vancouver. Forbort is a sluggish skater which works ok when little movement is needed when playing the box on a penalty kill. 5 v 5 when you need to beat players for pucks, stand players up at the blue line, his skating is sub par.

If Forbort plays like he did last night against a weak Vancouver team, he will play himself out of the line- up.

Independent of Orlov, Forbort lost the majority of his battles. Vancouver forecheckers were taking pucks away from him regularly. Forbort's other issue is he backs in, allowing the opponent to gain the blue line.

The Bruins have many options on defense to kill penalties, they do not need one D man specialist for penalty kills.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

I would go
Gryz Mac
Hl Cliffy
Orlov Carlo puts Orlov on his much weaker side but can't win em all. Unfortunately, Monty does not like Cliffy or Gryzz nearly as much as me.

Orlov is a lefty and hasn’t played silly side for a long time until last night

 

[DKH]

Yeah I would have never dressed him given he has never practiced with the team, but yeah it wasn't exactly putting him into position to thrive.

monty will do some experimenting over the next 4 weeks or so, but honestly also will need to settle some guys in with potential partners so they can learn how to communicate, and learn tendencies etc.

Monty wants everyone happy I get it I’m the godfather of the participation trophy for 9 year olds soccer - but this is the NHL and an Orlov-McAvoy pairing is ideal to me

 

[Caper Bruins fan]

The Tampa Bay Lightning always had the Bruins beat on the backend . How do the two teams compare with the addition of Orlov ? Are the Bruins significantly better on the backend ? A little better? It would be nice if someone could do a comparison .

 

[NeelyDan]

I don't know how you don't have Orlov/Chuck together - the rest is more fluid

 

[Memokerobi]

I think they’ll try Orlov/Cliffy in Edmonton to see how that looks

 

[KillerMillerTime]

I do feel Orlov struggled a bit on the right side. Mostly with being on his backhand for breakouts out of his corner. The goal against was sort of on him also, although Forbort ends up looking like the culprit because he’s trying to rush back to the front of the net to guard Orlov side. Orlov was trying to poke the puck to Bergy, like a D to D, but no D was there. Probably a play he makes hundreds of times to a RD partner, except here his is the RD.

It was all Forbort. Forbort clearly marked Boeser on the wall and then commenced
to puck watching and let him go straight to the net uncovered. Orlov had very little blame there. Just watch the replay.

 

[westmass]

It was all Forbort. Forbort clearly marked Boeser on the wall and then commenced
to puck watching and let him go straight to the net uncovered. Proof had very little blame there. Just watch the replay.

Actually, after watching Fobort lose puck battles, back in too much, Im starting to believe Clifton's energy has been covering for Forborts sluggish skating.