Prospect Info: With the 28th Pick the Senators Select Shane Bowers

[BondraTime]

I'm really not trying to be a dick, I just don't get it.

I haven't said too much about Bowers because all I've really seen of him is dev camp where he looked like a solid hockey player. Not great at anything, but not bad at anything.

That's a pretty typical profile for someone coming out of the US system. Not to say the Americans are not skilled, but you get a lot of guys who are just solid hockey players. Of course, that doesn't limit them, look at Patty Kane and Oshie for example.

Colin White is another guy who doesn't really wow you in any area, but very solid hockey player top to bottom. Those guys build NHL rosters. And when you're picking in the bottom of round 1, it's a solid get.

I'm just not enitrely sure how you can go "not a ppg player, so obvioulsy not a good pick". Like come on, that's lazier than Pierre McGuire's "analysis".

Bowers is from the Maritimes, he's a Nova Scotian.

Pierre McGuire is actually a very good analyst for prospects in my humble opinion

 

[GWNR]

Bowers is from the Maritimes, he's a Nova Scotian.

Pierre McGuire is actually a very good analyst for prospects in my humble opinion

"From the American system" was my point. Not his nationality. I.e. USHL --> NCAA which is the route Bowers chose.

But I added that because obviously most Americans come from the American system and I was trying to avoid people saying that I said Americans weren't skilled or something (obviously not what I meant)

 

[JungleBeat]

I'm really not trying to be a dick, I just don't get it.

I haven't said too much about Bowers because all I've really seen of him is dev camp where he looked like a solid hockey player. Not great at anything, but not bad at anything.

That's a pretty typical profile for someone coming out of the US system. Not to say the Americans are not skilled, but you get a lot of guys who are just solid hockey players. Of course, that doesn't limit them, look at Patty Kane and Oshie for example.

Colin White is another guy who doesn't really wow you in any area, but very solid hockey player top to bottom. Those guys build NHL rosters. And when you're picking in the bottom of round 1, it's a solid get.

I'm just not enitrely sure how you can go "not a ppg player, so obvioulsy not a good pick". Like come on, that's lazier than Pierre McGuire's "analysis".

You can be happy with a guy that's said to become a third liner.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

You can be happy with a guy that's said to become a third liner.

Players picked at 28th since 2017:
F Shane Bowers
D Lucas Johansen
F Anthony Beauvillier
F Josh Ho-Sang
F Morgan Klimchuk
D Brady Skjei
F Zach Phillips
F Charlie Coyle
D Dylan Olsen
F Viktor Tikhonov
D Nick Petrecki
F Nick Foligno
D Matt Niskanen
D Mark Fistric
F Corey Perry
F Jonas Johansson
F Adrian Foster
F Justin Williams
D Kristian Kudroc
F Ramzi Abid

Over the past 20 years, there have been three forwards drafted who topped out at higher than 3rd line. If you're expecting any higher from Bowers, in an admittedly weak draft year, you should probably lower your expectations if you're trying to be realistic.

 

[BonkTastic]

Over the past 20 years, there have been three forwards drafted who topped out at higher than 3rd line.

And we drafted one of those three.

 

[BondraTime]

Players picked at 28th since 2017:
F Shane Bowers
D Lucas Johansen
F Anthony Beauvillier
F Josh Ho-Sang
F Morgan Klimchuk
D Brady Skjei
F Zach Phillips
F Charlie Coyle
D Dylan Olsen
F Viktor Tikhonov
D Nick Petrecki
F Nick Foligno
D Matt Niskanen
D Mark Fistric
F Corey Perry
F Jonas Johansson
F Adrian Foster
F Justin Williams
D Kristian Kudroc
F Ramzi Abid

Over the past 20 years, there have been three forwards drafted who topped out at higher than 3rd line. If you're expecting any higher from Bowers, in an admittedly weak draft year, you should probably lower your expectations if you're trying to be realistic.

I agree with what you're saying, though the bolded were/are all top 6 players, and the underlined have a very good shot at it.

 

[Laoghaire]

I agree with what you're saying, though the bolded were/are all top 6 players, and the underlined have a very good shot at it.

2 of them are Murray/Dorian related picks. So I'm going to assume we got another Foligno/Perry.

#Optimism

 

[Tuna99]

2 of them are Murray/Dorian related picks. So I'm going to assume we got another Foligno/Perry.

#Optimism

Muckler drafted Foligno.

 

[Samsquanch]

Players picked at 28th since 2017:
F Shane Bowers
D Lucas Johansen
F Anthony Beauvillier
F Josh Ho-Sang
F Morgan Klimchuk
D Brady Skjei
F Zach Phillips
F Charlie Coyle
D Dylan Olsen
F Viktor Tikhonov
D Nick Petrecki
F Nick Foligno
D Matt Niskanen
D Mark Fistric
F Corey Perry
F Jonas Johansson
F Adrian Foster
F Justin Williams
D Kristian Kudroc
F Ramzi Abid

Over the past 20 years, there have been three forwards drafted who topped out at higher than 3rd line. If you're expecting any higher from Bowers, in an admittedly weak draft year, you should probably lower your expectations if you're trying to be realistic.

Lmao

Totally agree with the point your trying to make, but damn bro, that's surprisingly a VERY solid list of players taken at #28...

I bet 27 and 29 look half as good, and your just unlucky lol.

 

[bert]

Players picked at 28th since 2017:
F Shane Bowers
D Lucas Johansen
F Anthony Beauvillier
F Josh Ho-Sang
F Morgan Klimchuk
D Brady Skjei
F Zach Phillips
F Charlie Coyle
D Dylan Olsen
F Viktor Tikhonov
D Nick Petrecki
F Nick Foligno
D Matt Niskanen
D Mark Fistric
F Corey Perry
F Jonas Johansson
F Adrian Foster
F Justin Williams
D Kristian Kudroc
F Ramzi Abid

Over the past 20 years, there have been three forwards drafted who topped out at higher than 3rd line. If you're expecting any higher from Bowers, in an admittedly weak draft year, you should probably lower your expectations if you're trying to be realistic.

Thats actually a really good list haha.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Lmao

Totally agree with the point your trying to make, but damn bro, that's surprisingly a VERY solid list of players taken at #28...

I bet 27 and 29 look half as good, and your just unlucky lol.

Yep. Exactly right. As I started compiling that, I was like... eh, he's alright. He's pretty good... dammit. And when Perry was surrounded by Tambellini (27) and Eaves (29), I just laughed. But I choose to see that as a good thing, that we're likely getting a solid NHLer based solely on this metric. But it's also reasonable to temper expectations of top-line forward (which I think is an opinion few have, anyway.)

 

[bert]

Muckler drafted Foligno.

Literally his only good pick and it was probably because he only watched his dad.

 

[GWNR]

You can be happy with a guy that's said to become a third liner.

So in other words, you don't have much to back up your opinion.

Good to know.

 

[JungleBeat]

So in other words, you don't have much to back up your opinion.

Good to know.

You like the pick and I don't. Is that a problem? I would have preferred someone with higher upside - is that a problem?

How 'bout Jack Roslovic, #25OA in 2015, same age as White, played with White on the USNTDP team, played 1 year NCAA scoring 10 goals and 26 points in 36 games; Won WJC gold last year, Played for the AHL Moose last year as a 19 y/o and had 48 pts in 65 games... bad pick?

Have to look at team circumstances and teammates. Roslovic led his team in scoring and was playing at Miami University which isn't as highly regarded as Boston University.

They aren't really comparable tbh. Roslovic was above point per game in the ushl in his draft year and put up great numbers in the U18s. He's just a better prospect and that's OK.

Don't see why 30 + points is out of the question for Bowers. If he's playing with Harper and Tkachuk then I'm sure he'll hit that mark. Anything UNDER 25 will be a huge disappointment.

 

[dumbdick]

Yep. Exactly right. As I started compiling that, I was like... eh, he's alright. He's pretty good... dammit. And when Perry was surrounded by Tambellini (27) and Eaves (29), I just laughed. But I choose to see that as a good thing, that we're likely getting a solid NHLer based solely on this metric. But it's also reasonable to temper expectations of top-line forward (which I think is an opinion few have, anyway.)

Looks like close to maybe 40-45% of the forwards on your list panned out or will pan out. In other words...

"Dare to dream"
-Jason Spezza

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Bowers is from the Maritimes, he's a Nova Scotian.

Pierre McGuire is actually a very good analyst for prospects in my humble opinion

Not only that, i'm pretty sure he's had lunch with every prospect up for draft, and in most cases their dad too.

He gets around that ol' hooligan.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Players picked at 28th since 2017:
F Shane Bowers
D Lucas Johansen
F Anthony Beauvillier
F Josh Ho-Sang
F Morgan Klimchuk
D Brady Skjei
F Zach Phillips
F Charlie Coyle
D Dylan Olsen
F Viktor Tikhonov
D Nick Petrecki
F Nick Foligno
D Matt Niskanen
D Mark Fistric
F Corey Perry
F Jonas Johansson
F Adrian Foster
F Justin Williams
D Kristian Kudroc
F Ramzi Abid

Over the past 20 years, there have been three forwards drafted who topped out at higher than 3rd line. If you're expecting any higher from Bowers, in an admittedly weak draft year, you should probably lower your expectations if you're trying to be realistic.

I see a bit more than 3. Or at least some that will top out higher. Couple top 4 D there as well.

I don't think drafting a guy that tops out as 3rd liner is the real issue. It happens. And it's not a terrible thing. But drafting a guy who 3rd liner is his ceiling is the issue. Now I haven't seen enough of bowers. But if some people that have seen him are saying that, then, yeah. I don't like it.

And we need to absolutely kill drafts. We should follow the mentality of "wow other teams that drafted in this exact same spot didn't get that great of a player. If we draft a player even a little better it's a massive success". A higher standard needs to be set on our drafting. Maybe it has internally. Because we aren't outbidding teams on the market.

 

[Micklebot]

I see a bit more than 3. Or at least some that will top out higher. Couple top 4 D there as well.

I don't think drafting a guy that tops out as 3rd liner is the real issue. It happens. And it's not a terrible thing. But drafting a guy who 3rd liner is his ceiling is the issue. Now I haven't seen enough of bowers. But if some people that have seen him are saying that, then, yeah. I don't like it.

And we need to absolutely kill drafts. We should follow the mentality of "wow other teams that drafted in this exact same spot didn't get that great of a player. If we draft a player even a little better it's a massive success". A higher standard needs to be set on our drafting. Maybe it has internally. Because we aren't outbidding teams on the market.

What's better, a sure fire 3rd liner that tops out as a 3rd liner, or a guy that could be a 2nd liner, but is bust or boom?

There's value to both. I'm still sour that we didn't draft Kostin, I knew we wouldn't, but that's who I wanted. We really need to get a scouting presence in Russia and be willing to pick guys from that region. The fact that we may be unwilling to draft a Tarasenko, or Kostin should they fall into our laps is a problem.

 

[God Says No]

What's better, a sure fire 3rd liner that tops out as a 3rd liner, or a guy that could be a 2nd liner, but is bust or boom?

There's value to both. I'm still sour that we didn't draft Kostin, I knew we wouldn't, but that's who I wanted. We really need to get a scouting presence in Russia and be willing to pick guys from that region. The fact that we may be unwilling to draft a Tarasenko, or Kostin should they fall into our laps is a problem.

Agreed. It's frustrating we are actively shunning a portion of the players. We may have been burnt in the past by Russian players, but we shouldn't outright ignore them. Kostin would have been a nice gamble so late in the first round.

 

[BUCKLE UP]

Thats actually a really good list haha.

yeah, that's what I was going to comment with. It's actually a solid list.

 

[JungleBeat]

[Mod]

Kostin would have been nice.

 

[aragorn]

You can be happy with a guy that's said to become a third liner.

Well if he is projected to be a 3rd liner but ends up higher we win & if he does end up on the 3rd line because Brown & White are slightly better we still win having better skill lower in the lineup. I don't see a problem with this pick at all & IMO it can only get better with this kid, this was a solid pick by all accounts. We could have taken a shot with someone else who could end up better or worse but they didn't, c'est la vie. BTW what's wrong with Bowers ending up on the 3rd line? There are players picked late in the first that never make it to the NHL or have a cup of coffee & are never heard of again. I just hope he ends up being good enough to play in the NHL, whatever he does after that should be a bonus. Based on what I saw from him at the development camp, I think he could end up being a top 6 talent, he looked pretty skilled to me.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Yes, I think if you're picking outside of the top 15 or so picks in any given year, getting a kid who turns out to be a legit NHLer is a win. Line, role, icetime, points, etc....are all secondary.

 

[dumbdick]

Yes, I think if you're picking outside of the top 15 or so picks in any given year, getting a kid who turns out to be a legit NHLer is a win. Line, role, icetime, points, etc....are all secondary.

Gotta disagree. There's just no point in trying to draft easily replaceable bottom six players. Why draft a guy whose clone is available in UFA for the same money? Just sign that other guy instead and swing for the fences on draft day.

Some other team is going to win the powerball while we're dropping quarters at the Crown and Anchor table.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Gotta disagree. There's just no point in trying to draft easily replaceable bottom six players. Why draft a guy whose clone is available in UFA for the same money? Just sign that other guy instead and swing for the fences on draft day.

Some other team is going to win the powerball while we're dropping quarters at the Crown and Anchor table.

Swinging for the fences usually leaves you with nothing to show for it. At least a kid who makes the NHL has some value.

If we're going to take a risk on a kid, I'd rather do it in the second round....or if we have multiple first round picks to play with.