With Petry Locked Up, Who Will Habs Ship Out

[Cole Caulifield]

The CBA was expired in the summer of 2012 you can't make a new deal without a CBA...That's whats you are missing here.

JGRB give a much much better example with Karlsson's 7 years deal, the Keith's example just sucks.

The 2005-12 CBA expired in September 2012. We could have signed Subban from May to September 2012 under the old CBA... *mindblown*

2012-2013 lockout

Main article: 2012–13 NHL lockout
The 2005–12 CBA expired on September 15, 2012.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHL_Collective_Bargaining_Agreement

THE MORE YOU KNOW !!!

Just stop..

 

[Redux91]

Duncan Keith has a 5,5M cap hit until damn near the end of his career and is at least as good if not better than Subban. So Subban's 9M cap hit will never look sexier if we compare it to that.

We had the same opportunity with Subban. Contracts which will be signed in the next 1-2-3-4-5 years will never change that. An opportunity was lost.

But yes, what's done is done and let's move on. One mistake is not going to prevent us from competing because nearly every team also have one such mistake (Chicago with Bickell, LA with Richards, etc).

watch how much money doughty is going to get

watch.

 

[OnTheRun]

The 2005-12 CBA expired in September 2012. We could have signed Subban from May to September 2012 under the old CBA... *mindblown*



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHL_Collective_Bargaining_Agreement

THE MORE YOU KNOW !!!

Just stop..

Well this is even worse, now you need to front-load the contract of a 22 years old, 13 years is not long enough, you need a longer term (17 years?) or a higher AAV.

Pietrangelo/Karlsson are still much better examples.

 

[HCH]

i remember marc telling the media "i need room for my 2 young defenseman"

so im pretty sure he's gonna look to move emelin and that aweful contract

and if he needs to move gilbert also to make room for a more than capable pateryn

then so be it

get to work marc.

Why would you say that contract is awful? Markov's is far worse.

 

[The Nightman]

Ok you win, there is zero chance in hell that subban would have wanted to sign a long term deal. There is no precedent, and I'm crazy. You won the internet argument. Congratulations.

5-6 years is long term. It's just bad business for a 23 year old, with superstar potential signing 13 years for a lesser amount.

 

[Le Tricolore]

Why would you say that contract is awful? Markov's is far worse.

Both contracts are fair. Maybe a little too pricey, but neither are bad contracts.

 

[HCH]

Both contracts are fair. Maybe a little too pricey, but neither are bad contracts.

You're right, neither are obscenely priced

 

[Toro]

whats this thread about again???


geez, talk about hijack a thread. Got a head ache trying to read past the 1 million posts about subbans bridge deal etc.

 

[turbodragon]

I'm doubting anyone will get shipped out just yet. If we're not under any cap trouble, then they'll likely keep what they have. Bergevin's motto: you can never have too many defencemen.

That's just it though: we are under cap trouble. There's around 7-8 millions left, depending on next year's cap, to sign Galchenyuk, Beaulieu, Tinordi, plus 3 others. There's no way that's possible. What's more, it might be interesting to sign some of these longer term, especially Beaulieu, which would mean an even bigger cap hit.

Someone definitely has to go. Who will it be?

whats this thread about again???


geez, talk about hijack a thread. Got a head ache trying to read past the 1 million posts about subbans bridge deal etc.

Amen.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

How some otherwise fine fans and posters cannot simply admit that BargainBin's Subban contract fiasco was anything but a terrible, terrible process is beyond me...

Your entire arguments are built upon one made-up fact: he'd leave as a UFA.

In a league where the best player in the world is making 8.7m a year, I doubt Subban would be commanding more than 10m a year when he turned UFA. We could've had a beautiful ~5m contract on our hands and a much stronger lineup to compete while the Pleks/Markov windows closed but BargainBin being the kind of gutter-rat he is insisted on hardballing Subban and then taking him to fkn arbitration.

Imagine if Molson hadn't stepped in? Subban would've had a 1 year deal and then become a UFA immediately, pissed off and younger than any other UFA. That's how close we were to that reality but you guys don't get it, or refuse to get it.

 

[Kriss E]

5-6 years is long term. It's just bad business for a 23 year old, with superstar potential signing 13 years for a lesser amount.

That all depends on the money.
13 years at about 6M? That's sets him close to 80M. That is some serious cash.
Not sure how you could pass up on this. Those are guaranteed contracts, unless team buy you out later but you still get 2/3rd of the rest.
You pretty much just secured your financial status for your life. Not sure a lot of people would pass this up so they could *maybe earn more later.

Not sure I would have wanted him signed for that long though, I never liked those major deals. Was definitely for a 4-6 year deal though.

 

[The Nightman]

That all depends on the money.
13 years at about 6M? That's sets him close to 80M. That is some serious cash.
Not sure how you could pass up on this. Those are guaranteed contracts, unless team buy you out later but you still get 2/3rd of the rest.
You pretty much just secured your financial status for your life. Not sure a lot of people would pass this up so they could *maybe earn more later.

Not sure I would have wanted him signed for that long though, I never liked those major deals. Was definitely for a 4-6 year deal though.

Oh that's fantastic money don't get me wrong, we were more discussing in the 5-5.5 million range over 13 years like Keith. Chicago was able to drop Keth's cap hit significantly in his last three years of the deal when he's 37, 38, 39. Subban would be 36 after 13 years and I doubt he would've wanted such a steep decline in salary when you can still be a great defenceman at that age, maybe make it a 15 year deal and you can get the cap hit even lower.

This is all silly at this point anyways, I don't know what goes on in either one of Subban's or Bergevin's head. It would've been nice to have Subban at 6 million for 5-6 years but nothing much we can do now.

 

[yianik]

How some otherwise fine fans and posters cannot simply admit that BargainBin's Subban contract fiasco was anything but a terrible, terrible process is beyond me...

Your entire arguments are built upon one made-up fact: he'd leave as a UFA.

In a league where the best player in the world is making 8.7m a year, I doubt Subban would be commanding more than 10m a year when he turned UFA. We could've had a beautiful ~5m contract on our hands and a much stronger lineup to compete while the Pleks/Markov windows closed but BargainBin being the kind of gutter-rat he is insisted on hardballing Subban and then taking him to fkn arbitration.

Imagine if Molson hadn't stepped in? Subban would've had a 1 year deal and then become a UFA immediately, pissed off and younger than any other UFA. That's how close we were to that reality but you guys don't get it, or refuse to get it.

I heard it rumoured Molson stepped in but no detail, can you elaborate ?

 

[Kriss E]

Oh that's fantastic money don't get me wrong, we were more discussing in the 5-5.5 million range over 13 years like Keith. Chicago was able to drop Keth's cap hit significantly in his last three years of the deal when he's 37, 38, 39. Subban would be 36 after 13 years and I doubt he would've wanted such a steep decline in salary when you can still be a great defenceman at that age, maybe make it a 15 year deal and you can get the cap hit even lower.

This is all silly at this point anyways, I don't know what goes on in either one of Subban's or Bergevin's head. It would've been nice to have Subban at 6 million for 5-6 years but nothing much we can do now.

Yes, it's different from Keith's but doesn't mean it wouldn't be possible. It just wouldn't be as front loaded. Instead of making 8M the first few years and then dropping to 1.5M, PK's could have kept it around 7M-4M.

But as you said, it's all pointless now.

 

[JusticeBeaver]

I heard it rumoured Molson stepped in but no detail, can you elaborate ?

It was a Jack Todd rumour, nothing more and nothing less. Not something I'd put all my belief in, but hey, whatever makes it interesting, right?

 

[Sorinth]

Oh that's fantastic money don't get me wrong, we were more discussing in the 5-5.5 million range over 13 years like Keith. Chicago was able to drop Keth's cap hit significantly in his last three years of the deal when he's 37, 38, 39. Subban would be 36 after 13 years and I doubt he would've wanted such a steep decline in salary when you can still be a great defenceman at that age, maybe make it a 15 year deal and you can get the cap hit even lower.

This is all silly at this point anyways, I don't know what goes on in either one of Subban's or Bergevin's head. It would've been nice to have Subban at 6 million for 5-6 years but nothing much we can do now.

Keith's contract started at a salary of 8m though, Subban's wouldn't have. It would have started at 3-4m and gone up to the 8m or so in his prime UFA years and dropped down. But regardless if you replace Keith's last 3 years with 4m for each of those 3 years, the contract still comes in at ~6m which would be a steal compared to his current 9m.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

I heard it rumoured Molson stepped in but no detail, can you elaborate ?

Molson confirmed it himself - after the arbitration (which I'm sure was brutal) Subban exited the room looking "dazed" and "at a loss for words" (according to twitter). They had something like 48 hours to agree to another deal or take the arbitrator's offer (which would've been a 1 or 2 year deal and he'd be a UFA immediately after) it is during this time where Molson got heavily involved and would later admit that he stepped up and interfered with what would've been the biggest fiasco since the Roy trade.

Look at these links: https://www.google.com/webhp?source...spv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=geoff molson subban contract

BargainBin is a pathetic, arrogant nobody. He was a forgettable hockey player and rewards players he empathizes with and wants to play a game that plays to his own former (minor, insignificant) traits.

How he has the unwavering support of otherwise intelligent people is beyond me. The man has no ties to Montreal having left at a super young age, no ties to the Habs, isn't a hockey legend, isn't even a notable hockey player. He can't speak English or French and the French players and staff he did bring onto the team are all washed up or never-beens like himself: Briere, PAP, Bouillon and fkn Therrien. They insulted Larry Robinson and hired JJD instead, because of a rainstorm. They brought along every crony and friend from here till kingdom come -Scott fkn Mellanby, Ethan Moreau?! The one good hire was poached from Chicago to work with our only superstar. Our AHL system is a mess that is beyond repair - and he's adamantly refused to change a thing about their operation (contrast with the Calder Cup-winning Tampa Bay youngsters currently in the finals).

AND the Subban contract fiasco.

He's been here for four off-seasons now and the talent that he's managed to add to the roster have been a 3rd liner in Weise, a puncher at 2.5m in Prust and Jeff '29 points' Petry at 5.5m. Hardly steals by any stretch of the imagination.

He's the next Bob Gainey and none of you guys can see that. He took fkn PK Subban to arbitration... AFTER HE HAD HIS NORRIS SEASON!!!! He literally told PK Subban, top1 dman on the team from the moment he joined it, to "prove" himself with a show-me contract. A contract that everyone in the media said that PK only signed by the grace of his good nature.

Jesus christ I'm getting mad thinking about it.

This man threw Bustchenyuk under the bus the moment he didn't interfere when Therrien lied to the media and shoved him back to LW. This man thinks "fantastic" Desharnais is a viable first line centre, as he has been here and been extended for FOUR YEARS for all of BargainBin's tenure.

Gah. I should stop.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

5-6 years is long term. It's just bad business for a 23 year old, with superstar potential signing 13 years for a lesser amount.

Never understood for even a second why people created this narrative that PK would have signed a 10+ year deal before the lockout.

Unless he was getting paid around 8 per year he wasn't going to do that.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Never understood for even a second why people created this narrative that PK would have signed a 10+ year deal before the lockout.

Unless he was getting paid around 8 per year he wasn't going to do that.

No one thinks that, nor should players get a long-term deal for their 2nd deal. People, rightfully, wanted a 5 year deal for Subban that was around 5m - exactly what he was worth at the time.

 

[Habs100]

Why would you say that contract is awful? Markov's is far worse.

Markov is not the problem on this team. Having him run the 2nd wave is a nice luxury to have. If only we can get a better PP coach. Markov had 50 points this year. Imagine how many points he would have had if we had a decent PP coach.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

How some otherwise fine fans and posters cannot simply admit that BargainBin's Subban contract fiasco was anything but a terrible, terrible process is beyond me...

Your entire arguments are built upon one made-up fact: he'd leave as a UFA.

In a league where the best player in the world is making 8.7m a year, I doubt Subban would be commanding more than 10m a year when he turned UFA. We could've had a beautiful ~5m contract on our hands and a much stronger lineup to compete while the Pleks/Markov windows closed but BargainBin being the kind of gutter-rat he is insisted on hardballing Subban and then taking him to fkn arbitration.

Actually his cap hit is 8.7 but in real dollars he made 12 this year, he will make 12 again next year, and 10.9 for the next 2 seasons after that.

If you take off the final 4 years of Crosbys' deal (since you can only sign an 8 year deal now) you'd have a 10.8 million cap hit.

Also worth mentioning Toews and Kane both just signed for 10.5 per year, and Stamkos will probably sign for 11+ per year.

As to where this 5 million dollar figure on any long term deal comes from, I'm not really sure...but it would have seen him hitting UFA quite soon in all likelihood, and even then might have been closer to 6 than 5 anyways.

 

[DAChampion]

No doubt, six years at six million per would have been a better second contract for Subban.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

No one thinks that, nor should players get a long-term deal for their 2nd deal. People, rightfully, wanted a 5 year deal for Subban that was around 5m - exactly what he was worth at the time.

And in that scenario he's hitting UFA in 2 seasons' time and could well be making 11 million on a long term deal.

Would save in the short term, and likely the opposite in the long term.

At the end of the day, paying a franchise calibre d-man 9 million a year from the age of 25-33 isn't the terrible scenario people make it out to be, no matter how hard they try to argue otherwise.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

No doubt, six years at six million per would have been a better second contract for Subban.

How many UFA years would a 6 year deal have bought?

I'm far from convinced that was a deal he was going to sign coming off of his 2nd NHL season and his ELC expiring.

 

[DAChampion]

How many UFA years would a 6 year deal have bought?

I'm far from convinced that was a deal he was going to sign coming off of his 2nd NHL season and his ELC expiring.

It is well documented he wanted a deal with term for less than Doughty money. As stated by Subban, and his agent.

As for "UFA years" our cup.window is right now, not in 2020. You're also assuming that Subban would leave immediately at the end of his contract.