With Hayes on waivers, Boston has nothing to show for Tyler Seguin

[Marcobruin]

The Bruins should be in a decent spot speed wise in a couple years if don Sweeney really is as good at amateur talent evaluation as it's being reported he is (by Boston beat guys). Essentially he's been touted as a drafting and developing guru while simultaneously a pro scouting stooge.

However all of these prospects are reportedly great skaters.
Zboril
Vakananien
Senyshyn
Bjork
Mcavoy

That is 3 defensemen who are considered to be great skaters and all are 1st round picks indicating high talent level. All 3 are at different spots in development but all should be nhl players in 3 years or so. With pastrnak, Marchand, kuraly, senyshyn, Bjork all potentially on the roster at that time, that's an additional 5 wingers with good speed. The center position is a little plodding admittedly.
Bergeron will never be confused with Nathan mackinnon and neither will a slow paced David krejci or JFK. Frederic plays a more physical style a la backes and while ryan donatos father teddy was a fantastic skater, ryan is a bit more of a skilled player than speed demon.

All in all, id say Boston is in reasonably decent shape to keep up with the 4 forwards Toronto has with speed in the future. Particularly at home where they could match up a speed line of Bjork-kuraly-senyshyn to shut down a line with mcavoy and Zboril on the back end. That could come as early as this year although by all accounts senyshyn needs some time to realize he will only be an effective nhler when he learns to use his speed like Danny paille did and less like nichuskin tried too

Tor and Edm are 2 teams that the rest of the Nhl will have a hard time to keep up with in the very near future

 

[Crabapple]

What happened to Loui Eriksson? 3 consecutive 70+ point seasons, followed by 29 in 48 in the lockout year and then he just fell off a cliff in Boston. Did he have concussions?

 

[Montecristo]

It just seems absolutely ridiculous that he wouldn't get credit for anything positive.

Like delusional.

You'll notice no one is criticizing a deal in which he sent Blake wheeler away for rich peverley. Or one in which he sent multiple 1st round picks for Tomas kaberle. Those moves DID result in a championship. He also signed Michael Ryder I believe. So not all bad with chiarelli. But the seguin return was horrendous, the Chris Kelly contract was horrendous, with a NMC. Seidenbergs contract turned into an albatross. Krejci has like 5 more years left at over 7m which isn't ideal. Tuukka is also overpaid. So even when his moves won a championship we won't in hindsight come back and say that we didn't get enough or wait long enough on wheeler. We won't ever do that a b's fans.
Of all his trades the Horton and seidenberg trade was a haul. Outside of that, not factoring in team success, horrible trade record strictly in terms of players out/players in. Horrible drafts from 07-13 sans seguin, Hamilton, (no brainer) and spooner. Poor cap management with big money deals to mid level players. All in all, he won a championship, got to another and largely did it with a group of guys that were here prior to his arrival, although he did bring in chara, savard and Ryder who were hugely important

 

[LeafFever]

What happened to Loui Eriksson? 3 consecutive 70+ point seasons, followed by 29 in 48 in the lockout year and then he just fell off a cliff in Boston. Did he have concussions?

Yes. He got 2 in his first season in Boston.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Not really. The Leafs have Kapanen, Rychel (traded for Harrington) and Andersen (used Pits 1st)

+ a 2nd in 2017 (Maxime Comtois).

 

[Mr Positive]

What happened to Loui Eriksson? 3 consecutive 70+ point seasons, followed by 29 in 48 in the lockout year and then he just fell off a cliff in Boston. Did he have concussions?

he had 60 points with 30 goals in his final season with Boston, so it's more like Eriksson is finding it hard scoring on a poor Canucks team. He's 31, so I'd think he still has some good years in him.

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but it isn't the Bruins fans who are cocky IMO.

oh they are.

 

[Jacob]

That NHL Network show clip of the entire Bruins front office bemoaning the loss of Horton while chasing Seguin out of town will live in infamy.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

You'll notice no one is criticizing a deal in which he sent Blake wheeler away for rich peverley. Or one in which he sent multiple 1st round picks for Tomas kaberle. Those moves DID result in a championship. He also signed Michael Ryder I believe. So not all bad with chiarelli. But the seguin return was horrendous, the Chris Kelly contract was horrendous, with a NMC. Seidenbergs contract turned into an albatross. Krejci has like 5 more years left at over 7m which isn't ideal. Tuukka is also overpaid. So even when his moves won a championship we won't in hindsight come back and say that we didn't get enough or wait long enough on wheeler. We won't ever do that a b's fans.
Of all his trades the Horton and seidenberg trade was a haul. Outside of that, not factoring in team success, horrible trade record strictly in terms of players out/players in. Horrible drafts from 07-13 sans seguin, Hamilton, (no brainer) and spooner. Poor cap management with big money deals to mid level players. All in all, he won a championship, got to another and largely did it with a group of guys that were here prior to his arrival, although he did bring in chara, savard and Ryder who were hugely important

I understand the criticism.

But the argument that he inherited the players doesn't really seem very smart.

He signed a lot of them. Promoted them. Decided who to keep and who to move when making deals. And imo he assembled the best team the eastern conference has had in the past decade.

Yeah he burnt out on the cap but that is somewhat a symptom of success. Stan Bowman receives near zero criticism for the Hawks cap woes and he shouldn't receive any either.

Retaining successful players is important.

 

[Estlin]

oh they are.

Show us with examples how they are cocky.

 

[BruinLVGA]

oh they are.

Cocky... Cocky how?

If you want to see "cocky", please refer to Leafs fans. They're bragging left and right about how they will be conquering everything. I even saw one of them saying they're building a dynasty... Not building a team that can be consistently in the playoffs... Not a team that can be consistently a contender... Not a team that can win a Cup... But a DYNASTY already... Now THAT'S cocky for you.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

oh they are.

I guess you think it is cocky to state the facts on the comparative levels of success over the last 10 years?

I love the Leafs future, but from this thread you'd think they already won multiple Cups. Even great players and teams can fall short, which is what makeathe Cup special IMO.

 

[leafsfan1234]

The incoming Draisaitl trade will yield a similar result for Chiarelli.

 

[Unspecified]

oh they are.

Agreed! Try going to a game at TD Garden. That building oozes cocky on game day.


From Dallas to Boston we say thank you for Seguin

 

[s3antana5757]

Looks to me like when Chiarelli asks for their thoughts, all he gets is, "Yeah, he needs to go."

I had not seen that clip before. That's very bad. The whole premise the day before was we move him to keep Horton. Then Horton goes, and they're like "well, we're still going to move him because we don't like him." The lack of ownership for his development in that room is pathetic. Not one person steps up and questions, whether the organization has put him in the best position to succeed? It's just a huge high and mighty discussion about culture and how he doesn't fit. It's "he's going to be a star BUT.."

The lack of confidence by Chiarelli in every call with someone outside the organization is not good either. It's a bunch of umms and maybes and confusion. The call with the unnamed GM he basically just negotiates against himself. "We're looking for another first but you don't have one so we'll take a 2nd and a prospect."

All that video shows is why this ended up being a bad move. It wasn't thoroughly vetted and there wasn't a ton of thought put into the return. When you're looking to move a star that you simply don't have to move, you don't tell teams what you want, you let them tell you what they're willing to give up. They decided to move him regardless of the return, which they simply didn't have to do. It should've been an open bidding war, and if you didn't get what you want, you simply keep him and move him at another time.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

How? ? yes they won the cup and a big reason was because of a player they had already in their system...Brad Marchand and also the trade for Horton .
The year after they traded kessel Their offense sucked as I suspected

It would, desperate to improve offence Chiarelli gets the cavalry In Satan....
Of course well take the cup but we don't know if we would have won more with kessel we do know he has 2 with Pitt and he's a huge reason for it..

In 2010 the Bruins took out a 100+ Buffalo team in the 1st round. Then didn't make to the ECF because Krejci dislocated his wrist. All without Kessel. No guarantee the Bruins win the cup in 2013 with Phil, Chicago was that good.

PC is the reason Kessel had to be traded. Chiarelli put Boston to snug against the cap in the fall of 2009, famous for doing that while with the Bruins, becuase he gave awful extensions to players like Sturm and Ward. Plus was still paying Murray, Shaefer and Eavss on buyouts.

What we do know was the Bruins won in 2011 without Phil and Chicago was better than everyone in 2013. Kessel did great in Pittsburgh but don't act like the Pens two studs weren't the reason.

 

[Pyrophorus]

Cocky... Cocky how?

If you want to see "cocky", please refer to Leafs fans. They're bragging left and right about how they will be conquering everything. I even saw one of them saying they're building a dynasty... Not building a team that can be consistently in the playoffs... Not a team that can be consistently a contender... Not a team that can win a Cup... But a DYNASTY already... Now THAT'S cocky for you.

Must have a lot of tar on that brush.

I don't feel that way.
Now you have one who doesn't-so all Leaf fans must feel that way.

 

[voxel]

The incoming Draisaitl trade will yield a similar result for Chiarelli.

After we win the cup? Sure, why not.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Must have a lot of tar on that brush.

I don't feel that way.
Now you have one who doesn't-so all Leaf fans must feel that way.

User "Tigercool", by the way... He is the one who wrote that... And there's other pearls like user "Branningan's Law" saying that Leafs fans are "more knowledgeable than any other fan base". And the list can go on with all sorts of amazing claims backed by... absolutely nothing. One only has to read threads, it's that simple.

Are you inferring instead that in general the Leafs fan base is made up of fans who are humbly thinking that a good, realistic objective for the Leafs would be to become a perennial playoffs team? If you do, please direct them to this part of the forum, please. I would welcome that. Bragging, and even more so bragging without any achievement gets old.

PS I am glad you dont agree with that "dynasty" comment.

 

[thegongshow]

One of the worst moves in the history of the NHL.

 

[glovesave_35]

I had not seen that clip before. That's very bad. The whole premise the day before was we move him to keep Horton. Then Horton goes, and they're like "well, we're still going to move him because we don't like him." The lack of ownership for his development in that room is pathetic. Not one person steps up and questions, whether the organization has put him in the best position to succeed? It's just a huge high and mighty discussion about culture and how he doesn't fit. It's "he's going to be a star BUT.."

The lack of confidence by Chiarelli in every call with someone outside the organization is not good either. It's a bunch of umms and maybes and confusion. The call with the unnamed GM he basically just negotiates against himself. "We're looking for another first but you don't have one so we'll take a 2nd and a prospect."

All that video shows is why this ended up being a bad move. It wasn't thoroughly vetted and there wasn't a ton of thought put into the return. When you're looking to move a star that you simply don't have to move, you don't tell teams what you want, you let them tell you what they're willing to give up. They decided to move him regardless of the return, which they simply didn't have to do. It should've been an open bidding war, and if you didn't get what you want, you simply keep him and move him at another time.

I'm a Stars fan and that is weird to watch for me. That first day they're talking about moving Seguin so they can keep Horton, then immediately find out Horton is gone. The next day all of that pre-text for a Seguin trade is gone and you can clearly see that they simply wanted him gone.

Btw I agree with you completely on the negotiation tactic and the lack of accountability in the room. They talk about him being in the league for three years and not being what they want. Trading a 21 year old player like that who you just locked up to a long term deal at a very fair price with the reasoning made public seems really weak.

Have Bruins fans changed their opinion since the time of the trade and these videos came out? I remember a LOT of buy-in from the fanbase of the sentiments made in this clip.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

What strikes me in the "Behind the B" video is how they are reluctant at first to trade Seguin. By their own admission, they had a future star on their hands. Why the hell did they trade him for Eriksson and table scraps if they foresaw him becoming a star? Surely there would've been another GM willing to offer more than that.

He had a 29 goal, 67 point season for the Bruins. The Bruins have never been a powerhouse offensive team, what caused them to miss the playoffs in 2015 and 2016 was their lack of scoring outside the top 6. Bergeron, Seguin and Krejci would be among the best C depths in the league. In the video, they criticize Seguin for being soft but Krejci never struck me as a big bad Bruin either and he's making $7M a year.

 

[uncleben]

They still have a lot more than the Leafs, who are eating Phil's cap forever.

From that BOS/TOR Kessel trade, Boston still has Senyshyn, Forsbacka-Karlsson, and Lauzon (nothing else with the Seguin trade line dying off) that can be traced back.

Still attached to the trade, Leafs have Andersen, Kapanen, Rychel, Greenway, and the salary retention on Kessel.


Hard to argue against the trio of Senyshyn, Forsbacka-Karlsson, and Lauzon, but being able to acquire Andersen was key for Toronto, and Kapanen is obviously nice to have too. Rychel may not become an NHL regular with us at this point, but Greenway is still young enough he may. Holding onto Kessel's salary for so long sucks though.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

Watching that video again I'm hearing Chiarelli sound a lot more reluctant than the rest of the room about moving Seguin. Listen how he pauses before he says "Tyler" when we first get to hear part of the phone conversation.

 

[Battle Lin]

having a C like seguin and D like dougie would be sweet for any team right now

every fan, every coach, every GM wishes for good young talent...when you have it, go ahead and hang onto it...only trade young elite talent for young elite talent