With Datsyuk coming back soon, convince me he'll be an answer

[Heaton]

We'll have our entire collection of forwards and defensemen (minus Quincey). We're currently getting outshot every. single. game. Why is Datsyuk going to turn the tide that drastically? He's a great player, but our defense is still atrocious. I'm a firm believer that our team was dominant in 07-09 because of Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, and Stuart.

I agree this team will get better, but I just don't see Datsyuk coming back and fixing the majority if what is hurting this team.

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[Flowah]

He will help. He will not be an answer.

We've had Datsyuk missing before. We'd had Zetterberg missing before. Sometimes during the same season. We still put up better numbers than now. Team won't improve until they start working harder and making better passes. Losing way too many puck battles.

 

[Frk It]

Well, Datsyuk is a monster at driving possession (always has been) and we are inserting a player that is a monster at driving posession who figures to play about 1/3 of a game. So I think that part is somewhat self-explanatory.

I think you're trying to get at something else though, I'm assuming the shoddy blue line, and yeah nothing but bringing in more talent back there is gonna make that any better.

So yes, Datsyuk is going to make us better as far as possession and shot totals go IMO, but he doesn't make us a completely different team. We will still have a lot of the same issues. He will make our strengths stronger, but we'll have the same weaknesses.

 

[needzmoarcleary]

He will help. He will not be an answer.

We've had Datsyuk missing before. We'd had Zetterberg missing before. Sometimes during the same season. We still put up better numbers than now. Team won't improve until they start working harder and making better passes. Losing way too many puck battles.

Pretty much those two points are what I see on a game to game basis. There are plenty of flashes of a great team but it's not consistent and they aren't playing a full 60 minutes. As long as they continue to get better in those categories I see them getting a lot more W's and than losses. I would like to see them better in the dot too but I think those two are the focal point for what this team is really lacking in IMO.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Datsyuk is the best WAR player of like the last decade. Datsyuk is a force of nature. Like, yeah, the defense is bad, and yeah, it helped having two top pairing defenseman whereas now we have none, but I don't see why this team is not a playoff team still. **** defense or not. The forwards are so top heavy and the goaltending is strong. Should be a playoff team. Also, this team is like a Byfuglien or Shattenkirk away from being a top dog in the east, imo.

October was weird, Sydney Crosby is only a .5 ppg and a -6, the Ducks are way below .500, the Devils are kicking ass, and the Blue Jackets somehow started 0-8. And somehow the Therrien coached, Price-less Habs still won't stop winning. The Griffins are scoring at a like 3.5% rate which is stupidly low. And an entire junior team quit for like 24 hours. Everything is weird lately. Give things some time.

 

[Retire91]

Well, Datsyuk is a monster at driving possession (always has been) and we are inserting a player that is a monster at driving posession who figures to play about 1/3 of a game. So I think that part is somewhat self-explanatory.

I think you're trying to get at something else though, I'm assuming the shoddy blue line, and yeah nothing but bringing in more talent back there is gonna make that any better.

So yes, Datsyuk is going to make us better as far as possession and shot totals go IMO, but he doesn't make us a completely different team. We will still have a lot of the same issues. He will make our strengths stronger, but we'll have the same weaknesses.

Pretty much this, the team is still going to struggle because the defensive core lacks so much of what it needs. But Daytsuk is as important to the team as lidstrom was. He is an elite HOF presence that changes the face of the team entirely.

Guy can accept a bad pass and gain the zone with control in his sleep. Guy has been a league leader in steals his whole career. One of the best elite defensive forwards and a great for checker and back checkers. His talent covers up a lot of the holes in the roster just like Lidstrom did and Zetterberg does. Lisds, Daytsuk, and Zetterberg have been the entire team for a while. Lids is now done for good so missing any one of the remaining two is a giant giant deal.

I also think he adds another dimension of lead by example. His locker room and on ice presence could ignite some more motivation.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Well, Datsyuk is a monster at driving possession (always has been) and we are inserting a player that is a monster at driving posession who figures to play about 1/3 of a game. So I think that part is somewhat self-explanatory.

I think you're trying to get at something else though, I'm assuming the shoddy blue line, and yeah nothing but bringing in more talent back there is gonna make that any better.

So yes, Datsyuk is going to make us better as far as possession and shot totals go IMO, but he doesn't make us a completely different team. We will still have a lot of the same issues. He will make our strengths stronger, but we'll have the same weaknesses.

Regardless of what you think of the personnel on the blue line you can't possibly believe they are playing at their max potential. Datsyuk is not going to fix that. This whole team is in disarray and major things will have to happen to fix it. If you maximize the potential of this d you can be quite good. Unfortunately that is not likely to happen.

 

[Frk It]

Regardless of what you think of the personnel on the blue line you can't possibly believe they are playing at their max potential. Datsyuk is not going to fix that. This whole team is in disarray and major things will have to happen to fix it. If you maximize the potential of this d you can be quite good. Unfortunately that is not likely to happen.

I do agree with you that the defense could be better utilized. But I think that can only do so much, and I think the bigger issue is the group is devoid of talent relative to the other big dogs in the league.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

I do agree with you that the defense could be better utilized. But I think that can only do so much, and I think the bigger issue is the group is devoid of talent relative to the other big dogs in the league.

I think our net offensive group matches up pretty well with most teams in the league, I'd say it's top third. It's the defense that is the problem

 

[Flowah]

I think our net offensive group matches up pretty well with most teams in the league, I'd say it's top third. It's the defense that is the problem

Offense is not off the hook. They are not producing like they should.

 

[Retire91]

I do agree with you that the defense could be better utilized. But I think that can only do so much, and I think the bigger issue is the group is devoid of talent relative to the other big dogs in the league.

Agree with that, the team is not a contender, has not been for a while and they are not one player away from being a contender.

 

[Frk It]

Agree with that, the team is not a contender, has not been for a while and they are not one player away from being a contender.

Well, don't agree necessarily.

If they bring in a legitimate #1 RD they are a contender in my books. Long shot, but that would do it IMO.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Offense is not off the hook. They are not producing like they should.

Of course, but as I illustrated in an earlier post, this has been a weird start to the season. It's a long season, the offense will come together. Of course a big problem is that the defense absolutely is incapable of helping the transition game which hurts our offense big time.

 

[sean3250]

Offense is not off the hook. They are not producing like they should.

Agreed. The offense is way to hot and cold. Still overly reliant on the PP and **** at ES. Most games when the PP isn't clicking they lose. If this team wants to improve they need to play much better at ES.

 

[ProPAIN]

It doesn't hurt having your best forward in terms of production and factors that help the team get better.

He had the best PPG last year and that's like adding another Zetterberg. That doesn't help when you are struggling to score goals and your PP isn't great either (helps on the PK too).

Shots come with possession and Datsyuk is the best in several departments: gaining the zone, face-offs, takeaways, keeping the puck, etc.

We won't become Cup contenders when he returns, but I do expect some significant improvements for sure.

 

[Claypool]

Teams typically get better when their best player returns.

 

[Retire91]

Well, don't agree necessarily.

If they bring in a legitimate #1 RD they are a contender in my books. Long shot, but that would do it IMO.

I don't think they can maintain enough firepower up front in trade for a #1 RD. Its going to cost one of Nyquist or Tartar. If they did manage to keep them and both D and Z are healthy then yes maybe a long shot, a real real long shot.

 

[Flowah]

Of course, but as I illustrated in an earlier post, this has been a weird start to the season. It's a long season, the offense will come together. Of course a big problem is that the defense absolutely is incapable of helping the transition game which hurts our offense big time.

I agree there are some very weird ****ing things happening. Anaheim, Arizona, the Habs, Pittsburgh. It goes on and on and on. I mentioned it in another thread. I have no idea what the hell is going on. I hope it's just some weird funk and the Wings will snap out of it but I am a pessimist by nature.

Agreed. The offense is way to hot and cold. Still overly reliant on the PP and **** at ES. Most games when the PP isn't clicking they lose. If this team wants to improve they need to play much better at ES.

I believe this was the case last year, wasn't it? Our ES Corsi close was pretty damn good, top3 in the league I think. But our ES scoring was not great. Yeah just checked war-in-ice. If I'm reading it right, ES 5v5, all score situations last regular season, we were the 6th worst team for goals for. Ahead of only Arizona, Buffalo, NJ, Carolina, and Edmonton. Our ES scoring has sucked for at least a year now. Our goal differential for ES 5v5 was middle of the pack.

We really need that to improve. Can't go far without it.

 

[Frk It]

Offense is not off the hook. They are not producing like they should.

23rd in goals for per game... with the forwards we have...

Not acceptable. Even with a mediocre/subpar defense.

 

[DanZ]

He will make the team much better. He was the best possession center in the game last season and will change the matchup dynamics of opposing teams drastically. He will improve faceoffs and the power play as well...

He won't turn this team into a contender by himself but I think he will have a major impact. Even with Babcock as the head coach, the difference between the team with and without Datsyuk was massive.

 

[Actual Thought*]

I do agree with you that the defense could be better utilized. But I think that can only do so much, and I think the bigger issue is the group is devoid of talent relative to the other big dogs in the league.

Well we don't really know their capabilities. We can't even get Kronwall rolling. We change the line up willy nilly and we mix and match the pairings willy nilly regardless of whether we win or lose. There is no plan and it is pretty hard to execute a plan when you don't have one. The players aren't ever going to play with confidence when they don't have any understanding of what the plan is. They don't trust that their team mate is going to be where they think he should be. The result is hesitation which is deadly at the NHL level. As long as that is the case they can't play quick. If they can't play quick you will continue to see what you are seeing. A few wins due to individual performances from guys like Z, Pav, Larkin, Mrazk, and Howard. Not Redwing hockey by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Frk It]

Well we don't really know their capabilities. We can't even get Kronwall rolling. We change the line up willy nilly and we mix and match the pairings willy nilly regardless of whether we win or lose. There is no plan and it is pretty hard to execute a plan when you don't have one. The players aren't ever going to play with confidence when they don't have any understanding of what the plan is. They don't trust that their team mate is going to be where they think he should be. The result is hesitation which is deadly at the NHL level. As long as that is the case they can't play quick. If they can't play quick you will continue to see what you are seeing. A few wins due to individual performances from guys like Z, Pav, Larkin, Mrazk, and Howard. Not Redwing hockey by any stretch of the imagination.

I mean, Kronwall has been given 23 minutes on the PP (most on the team), and he only has 11 shots. So coaches are giving him the opportunity, he just needs to simply play better. I'm sure no one is telling him, "hey Kronner, absolutely do not put the puck on net."

Blash needs to fix some things. Players like Kronwall also need to step up and play better, too.

 

[Heaton]

I mean, Keon wall has been given 23 minutes on the PP (most on the team), and he only has 11 shots. So coaches are giving him the opportunity, he just needs to simply play better. I'm sure no one is telling him, "hey Kronner, absolutely do not put the puck on net."

Blash needs to fix some things. Players like Kronwall also need to simply step up and play better.

It has and always will be on the players more than anything else. I think Datsyuk will definitely have an impact, but this team will go from playing below average, to maybe average with him on the team.

The reason I made this thread was for the people that think Datsyuk being out is a major reason why this team isn't good. I don't think it's that simple.

 

[TheOtherOne]

This is a weird thread.

Will the addition of one of the best forwards in the world improve our team? Yes. If you argue with that I have no answer for you.

Will it suddenly make our team flawless? Of course not. Nobody thinks that.

So obviously the result will be somewhere in between. So I guess the only point of contention is whether we become a Cup contender. Will the addition of Datsyuk alone make us the Cup favorite? Of course not.

Can we win a Cup with what's basically the current team + Datsyuk? I guess this question is the main point of the thread. And if you're talking about our current team how they played against Carolina, the answer is still obviously no.

But if you factor room for improvement of a lot of young guys- Larkin, Jurco, Pookie, Smith, DD, March, Mrazek, AA... who knows who will be strong x-factors a few months from now. And if Blash settles in and his system starts clicking and players find chemistry on consistent lines and both goalies stay good when it counts... there is a lot of potential.

The main thing is that we've basically seen a weaker (on paper) version of this team take last year's Cup finalists to game 7 in a series that we could have won with a single lucky bounce.

Yes there are a lot of "ifs". But if it was possible for a team to be a sure thing, we wouldn't have so much money exchanged in Vegas.

I'm sure that doesn't answer your question, but I don't think your question has a valid answer, so there it is.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

We'll have our entire collection of forwards and defensemen (minus Quincey). We're currently getting outshot every. single. game. Why is Datsyuk going to turn the tide that drastically? He's a great player, but our defense is still atrocious.

As plenty of other have said, he isn't a blanket answer to the teams woes, but he sure will help. The inability of our D to play the puck has been an issue for the last 2 or 3 years, and we've upgraded on the back end this season, so I'm not sure its fair to blame all our problems on them. Forward depth was meant to be our big strength this year, and even without Dats, Richards and Franzen, that's not been the case

I'm a firm believer that our team was dominant in 07-09 because of Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, and Stuart.

That team was a perfect storm. Sure, elite back end. But also Dats and Z in their primes. Osgood/Hasek in goal. Deep set of of forwards. Lots of good young players on ELC's or bridge contracts. Players motivated by losing to Anaheim the previous year who hadn't tired of Babcock yet and totally bought into his system for the year.

Adding Lidstrom/Rafalski to this team would make them a LOT better, but they still wouldn't be Presidents Trophy winners.