TV: Witcher TV Series

[ThreeOfAPerfectPair]

Casting looks like they want to make Ciri a 13 year old minority.

I'm not sure how to feel about this. If you say you're against it because the character is white then you get crapped on as a fan. But if this was reversed, like it has been recently with ScarJo and Emma Stone, then everyone is up in arms.

Extremely touchy subject. Basically they want to make a Witcher, all defined at pale skin and white hair, not pale skin and white haired.

Was pretty obvious this was going to happen. You can't argue against it without being labeled a racist and possibly blacklisted.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Casting looks like they want to make Ciri a 13 year old minority.

I'm not sure how to feel about this. If you say you're against it because the character is white then you get crapped on as a fan. But if this was reversed, like it has been recently with ScarJo and Emma Stone, then everyone is up in arms.

Extremely touchy subject. Basically they want to make a Witcher, all defined at pale skin and white hair, not pale skin and white haired.

Kind of different circumstances with the ScarJo stuff.

I don't particularly think it is necessary, but adaptations make changes to the source material all the time. It isn't meant to be an absolute copy of the source material.

Naturally r/witcher and others are going bonkers over it, though.

 

[Warden of the North]

I dont really care what Ciri looks like to be honest.

Changing Geralt dramatically would have been difficult, considering how much people call him "White Wolf" and such.

 

[Warden of the North]

I'm a huge Witcher fan, but I think that's a stretch. The source material is not even close to Game of Thrones, especially given that it's basically just a collection of short stories (which lent itself well to the video games, as they can be used for quests and whatnot). The video games definitely helped build the story arc and lore, though. One of the main differences between the Witcher and Game of Thrones is that GoT had dozens of characters, all believable and with their own motives, which culminated for this fantastic conclusion of everyone coming together. The Witcher will have what, 6 or 7 big characters?

I think Amazon's Lord of the Rings will be the next Game of Thrones, given how much better the source material is.

This might not be a bad thing. It gives Hissrich a blank canvas to work with. Gives her the outline and the world, lets her flesh it out. Game of thrones is probably too big to tell its story. This is evident too me when you consider the incredible difficulty Martin is having getting Dany out of Mereen and over to Westeros.. Hell, the show wrapped it up far nicer then Martin is probably going to end up doing it.

 

[wingsnut19]

I dont really care what Ciri looks like to be honest.

Changing Geralt dramatically would have been difficult, considering how much people call him "White Wolf" and such.

Yeah, it doesn't really change anything. Ciri can still have "ashen hair" as an ethnic minority, if that is a big deal to people. I do still wish they'd just hire the best actress available regardless of ethnicity, but I don't see a need to make a big deal of it.

 

[Warden of the North]

My biggest fear for this show is that were going to get some standard werewolf or vampire story.

I want to see other monsters, or larger overarching enemies like the Wild Hunt. Ive had enough of damn vampires. Mediocre to boring tired old fantasy trope. Give me a leshen commanding a pack of wolves or some wyverns or something

 

[ArGarBarGar]

My biggest fear for this show is that were going to get some standard werewolf or vampire story.

I want to see other monsters, or larger overarching enemies like the Wild Hunt. Ive had enough of damn vampires. Mediocre to boring tired old fantasy trope. Give me a leshen commanding a pack of wolves or some wyverns or something

I don't really see why they would only utilize those, considering the wealth of monsters they can use for the show.

 

[Warden of the North]

I don't really see why they would only utilize those, considering the wealth of monsters they can use for the show.

I hope you're right. ten years ago if this was hitting network TV I guarantee it would be a dumb vampire story. Hopefully Netflix will allow them to expand and not play it safe with well known monsters like werewolves and vampires.

I mean, while I enjoyed Blood and Wine, I would have liked an expansion set in Toussaint better if it wasnt about vampires. its just so tired and old. The game decided to dedicate a massive DLC to Vampires, so I cant see the show glossing over them. I just dont want them to be the main focus.

 

[Blitzkrug]

This whole Ciri thing is hard to actually debate because the moment it comes up right away the racism card is thrown out from both sides of the argument.

For one, i recall correctly the showrunner wanted to be fairly faithful to the books. Casting Ciri as a minority because you're pushing an agenda/for reasons seems kinda contradictory to that. It's the same problem that occured with DC's upcoming Teen Titans adaptations. People slammed the look of Starfire because she looks legit like an extra from an episode of Law and Order and right away people cried racism (which is stupid because technically Starfire is a minority being an actual alien) when it was the fact the person casted to play her (an attractive black actress) was made to look far more stereotypical than an actual alien princess/warrior.

And then the people who have in what my opinion isn't a completely BS argument that Ciri doesn't have any reason to not be white are thrown out because they're just assumed to be racist when they're arguing for an authenticity/logical chronology standpoint. Because then if Ciri's not white, then logic dictate you need to change the ethnicity of the entire Nilfgaardian empire, which potentially opens a whole different can of worms regarding portrayal and potential inferences that could be drawn about that. It just feels like a really slimy way of spinning it. "We're going to do what we want with the source material despite saying otherwise and if you disagree you're a racist"

The way i see it is no actual constructive discussion can be had on the topic. I personally don't give a damn neither here or there since their first casting choice was enough to disregard the show completely but still.

Edit: Because i was really bored i decided to look through the cesspool of threads on reddit and found a somewhat logical thought process on where this idea can go super wrong, super quick

This is inclusivity that misses the entire premise of the source material, and actually serves to help nationalist arguments currently going on in Europe. If Ciri's played by a BME actor, logically her father has to be a BME actor too. The Nilfgaardian empire has to be, at least a significant part of it anyway. The empire is seen as an invading force that's taking away the sovereignty of people by many. Sure it's not black and white, but having the empire being an invading force of a visibly different ethnicity plays into the nationalist argument against integration. They're nicknamed "the black ones", to make it extra concerning. The whole thing would look more ham-fisted than when Netflix did that fairytale film with Will Smith where orcs were an allegory for black people.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I suspect this was done primarily to ensure it's crystal clear Ciri is Geralt's ward, not his (biological) daughter.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

They could certainly retcon her origin, or ignore it completely.

And considering this is a rumor, there is way too much bellyaching.

 

[Elvis P]

I hope it's good. It's my all time favorite video game.

 

[WarriorOfGandhi]

In the short stories he does. Improves a lot in the novels though.

I thought the opposite actually -- the short stories were a lot more compelling than the full-length novels, which really just seemed to take forever to go anywhere and weren't that interesting along the way.

 

[Aladyyn]

My biggest fear for this show is that were going to get some standard werewolf or vampire story.

I want to see other monsters, or larger overarching enemies like the Wild Hunt. Ive had enough of damn vampires. Mediocre to boring tired old fantasy trope. Give me a leshen commanding a pack of wolves or some wyverns or something

If they're going to be faithful to the novels, there won't be many monster fights in the first place.

 

[Aladyyn]

I suspect this was done primarily to ensure it's crystal clear Ciri is Geralt's ward, not his (biological) daughter.

Ciru's origin is important enough that they should really take the time to clearly explain/show it instead of dumb shortcuts like that.

 

[AlanHUK]

BAME in the UK where the casting call is being done would also include people of Slavic decent. So it doesn't mean Ciri won't be white, ashen haired, green eyed.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I suspect this was done primarily to ensure it's crystal clear Ciri is Geralt's ward, not his (biological) daughter.

Second thought: the writers want a plot thread where Ciri is harassed, discriminated, attacked because of her skin color- an American interpretation of the racism in a fantasy series based off of medieval Poland.

'Course, the simplest explanation is marketing overlords at Netflix took a peek at the target demo, flicked over to the racial-makeup-of-Witcher-characters chart, and thought, "You know....".

I'm concerned chiefly that they putatively want a 13-16 year old to play Ciri than her appearance, in any event.

 

[RandV]

Should start a pool on which Game of Thrones actors are going to be in this. I mean Charles Dance has to be in it right?

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I thought the opposite actually -- the short stories were a lot more compelling than the full-length novels, which really just seemed to take forever to go anywhere and weren't that interesting along the way.

The only thing the 5 book saga had over the short stories was Regis because Regis is awesome.

The 5 book saga was a bit of a let down for me since the short stories were so damn solid.

 

[RandV]

This whole Ciri thing is hard to actually debate because the moment it comes up right away the racism card is thrown out from both sides of the argument.

Great so this is going to be a thing here too? I just see a bunch of idiots everywhere

I think a good way to highlight the issue is in Vancouver there's a group I believe called the 3.1 initiative made up of minority female theatre actors. Now Vancouver is a very diverse city, the greater region is probably > 50% white. Yet this group I'm talking about takes the 3.1 number because that's the actual percentage of theatre roles in the city that go to non-white women. A lot of that is just the nature of the industry, English language theatre has a long history so historically these roles won't be very multicultural. But when you live in a society that is multicultural, where sticking to "history" excludes so many from both the work force and the audience, is it really that big a deal if you cast a black or Asian women in a Shakespeare role?

People talk about these things like they're some big social justice push from Hollywood, but it's probably more that the people who actually working in the industry are diverse and the bean counters see that so is their audience. Like say you're Tom Hiddleston and you are buds with fellow brit Idris Elba. Are you going to say "sorry Idris, Heimdall was a Norse god and the Norse were white, so you're historically inaccurate here. So just stick to playing slaves, servants, gangstas, and the like".

Yeah that's not going to happen. This is an argument for the peanut gallery in dark corners of the internet. It doesn't have to be some dark SJW conspiracy for this type of thing to happen, rather because at the end of the day these shows and movie are made by real people who are diverse and all have personal connections with each other.

 

[Blitzkrug]

I still believe the people who are arguing about authenticity have legit ground to stand on, but maaaaybe not the level they've blown the issue up.

WOAT also brings up another concern. If they're really using race as a indicator that Ciri is not Geralt's blood, then the concern is not about race. It then becomes a concern of how much of a **** the people making the show worth watching and not just trying to churn out junk to cash in off of idiots because of the Witcher name. Because that's just lazy.

 

[Warden of the North]

This whole Ciri thing is hard to actually debate because the moment it comes up right away the racism card is thrown out from both sides of the argument.

For one, i recall correctly the showrunner wanted to be fairly faithful to the books. Casting Ciri as a minority because you're pushing an agenda/for reasons seems kinda contradictory to that. It's the same problem that occured with DC's upcoming Teen Titans adaptations. People slammed the look of Starfire because she looks legit like an extra from an episode of Law and Order and right away people cried racism (which is stupid because technically Starfire is a minority being an actual alien) when it was the fact the person casted to play her (an attractive black actress) was made to look far more stereotypical than an actual alien princess/warrior.

And then the people who have in what my opinion isn't a completely BS argument that Ciri doesn't have any reason to not be white are thrown out because they're just assumed to be racist when they're arguing for an authenticity/logical chronology standpoint. Because then if Ciri's not white, then logic dictate you need to change the ethnicity of the entire Nilfgaardian empire, which potentially opens a whole different can of worms regarding portrayal and potential inferences that could be drawn about that. It just feels like a really slimy way of spinning it. "We're going to do what we want with the source material despite saying otherwise and if you disagree you're a racist"

The way i see it is no actual constructive discussion can be had on the topic. I personally don't give a damn neither here or there since their first casting choice was enough to disregard the show completely but still.

Edit: Because i was really bored i decided to look through the cesspool of threads on reddit and found a somewhat logical thought process on where this idea can go super wrong, super quick

Re: the reddit quote - Couldnt they just say Ciri's mother was a POC? That would bypass the concerns noted

 

[Bjorn Le]

I normally don't care about ethnicity in casting, like seriously, screw people who don't want to see Elba cast as Bond. This feels a little different, but I'll add the disclaimer that I think they can make a BAME actress work. For characters like James Bond, the appearance is the characters is completely irrelevant to the plot and character, it's only in the books to help the reader picture the character. But Ciri's appearance is quite important in at least some work in the Witcher series. She's literally called "the Ashen one". So I hope that even if they cast Ciri as a BAME actress that she'll have Ashen hair.

In the lore, Ciri's mother is Cintran and her father is obviously from Nilfgaard. Both are based on Europeans but Ciri's mother isn't all that important to her character (although her mothers ancestor is)so I don't think a retcon would be an issue.

 

[Blitzkrug]

I would go bonkers for Idris Elba as James Bond. He's a ****ing awesome actor and he def has the chops to make 007 work. He's the only thing that was worth one iota of a **** in that adaptation of The Dark Tower. (That's actually who i'm hoping gets it as opposed to overrated shlock like Tom Hardy)

Re: the reddit quote - Couldnt they just say Ciri's mother was a POC? That would bypass the concerns noted

I'm sure you could. that would certainly be better than just leaving it up to interpretation. I feel like the Witcher fanbase wouldn't have it though.

 

[RandV]

I normally don't care about ethnicity in casting, like seriously, screw people who don't want to see Elba cast as Bond. This feels a little different, but I'll add the disclaimer that I think they can make a BAME actress work. For characters like James Bond, the appearance is the characters is completely irrelevant to the plot and character, it's only in the books to help the reader picture the character. But Ciri's appearance is quite important in at least some work in the Witcher series. She's literally called "the Ashen one". So I hope that even if they cast Ciri as a BAME actress that she'll have Ashen hair.

In the lore, Ciri's mother is Cintran and her father is obviously from Nilfgaard. Both are based on Europeans but Ciri's mother isn't all that important to her character (although her mothers ancestor is)so I don't think a retcon would be an issue.

Ideally how it should work is when possible (doesn't necessarily work when casting families) it's the auditions that should be open to all ethnicities, and if someone who wouldn't typically be standard for the role nails it you work around that. This is how you get Idras Ibra as Heimdall, Roland Deschain, and now potentially James Bond. Another one that I never heard much about outside the initial news blip, but when they put on an official Harry Potter theatre production in London and cast a black girl as Hermione Granger probably the same thing happened there.

For the Ciri news its only an unconfirmed rumour at this point, or that they're just casting a wider net. Or if it is true, then it likely has to do with the other suggestion that they're going to give her the 'ashen' hair but want to create a distinction from Geralt so people don't confuse her as his daughter. People may think that's silly but from TV shows to movies they do actually put a great deal of care into this sort of thing. Just take any sitcom, like Seinfeld, Friends, How I Met Your Mother, etc, and look how distinctly different the cast is - unless its family. IT's not necessarily something the casual viewer may notice but the film & TV industry casts this way from top to bottom.