Winnipeg Jets Top 20 Prospect 2016 - #19

[Constable]

Berdin and Cederholm should be the next to go and in my opinion Berdin should have gone before Foley.

Add Jiri Fronk.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

That's incorrect again. He had a solid season with the Moose, played well enough to get called up for 11 games with the Jets, played over 13 minutes per, and during those 11 games we went 7-3-1. He played very well in those 11 games, to a point I would be fine with him in our 3rd pairing next season.

You know you are out of arguments when record with/without a player is brought up

Melchiori is a big meh to me. Hes an ok AHLer but never took that step up he needed. Hell never be an NHL regular.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Berdin and Cederholm should be the next to go and in my opinion Berdin should have gone before Foley.

Add Jiri Fronk.

Fronk is not Jets property. So not a Jets prospect.

 

[Deif]

I consider Fronk a Jets prospect in the same tier as Lodge and Blomqvist. Been to 2 dev camps now and spent the season with the Moose.

By technicality you are right though. Either way it doesn't matter since these polls are almost over.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

You know you are out of arguments when record with/without a player is brought up

Melchiori is a big meh to me. Hes an ok AHLer but never took that step up he needed. Hell never be an NHL regular.

Or better yet, describing someone's game as "quietly effective".

Sounds like putting lipstick on a pig.

Kostalek struggled last season, was benched for being late, was called out for his lack of understanding of what it takes to be an everyday pro, was inconsistent for most of the season.

I will bet you that Melchiori will have more NHL games played next season than the quiet but apparently effective Jan does.

And the teams record does matter. If we played well and that player had a role in it, not sure how you can argue that it has no bearing on assessing that player's role in those wins.

 

[mcpw]

I will bet you that Melchiori will have more NHL games played next season than the quiet but apparently effective Jan does.

Nobody will bet against that.

That doesn't make Melchiori a good player.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Nobody will bet against that.

That doesn't make Melchiori a good player.

Exactly. Its about careers not whos closer to the NHL.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

In case anyone is wondering: grainy, alien-looking Luke Green photo is staying.

(I'll probably find and crop a better photo when I do the final rankings wrap-up)

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

Nobody will bet against that.

That doesn't make Melchiori a good player.

Wasn't the argument. He played better last season than Jan did, which was the argument.

 

[Gm0ney]

I think Lipon has a solid chance of being a 4th liner - but I don't see him being much more.

Kostalek was quite disappointing last year at the Moose games I saw. Seemed a step behind and made some bad decisions. Yeah, it was tough for him to start his pro career on that terrible team, but I just can't justify voting for him.

Berdin's still the player I like at this point.

 

[EastRiver]

Was going to go with Lipon but reading through the thread Holden convinced me of Kostalek. Lipon should be next through to finish off a pretty good top 20.

 

[mcpw]

Wasn't the argument. He played better last season than Jan did, which was the argument.

which is still not proven by the number of NHL games.

Who was the better player last year, Peluso or Petan?

 

[garret9]

Or better yet, describing someone's game as "quietly effective".

Sounds like putting lipstick on a pig.

Kostalek struggled last season, was benched for being late, was called out for his lack of understanding of what it takes to be an everyday pro, was inconsistent for most of the season.

I will bet you that Melchiori will have more NHL games played next season than the quiet but apparently effective Jan does.

And the teams record does matter. If we played well and that player had a role in it, not sure how you can argue that it has no bearing on assessing that player's role in those wins.

Melchiori's numbers were anything but effective... or quiet.

 

[Jets4Life]

Kostalek is a guy that plays very smart game. For some reason early he was running around trying to do too much but later in the season calmed down. He is always in right position and is very good at breakouts. He will never be a big point guy, or a dynamic player but he is a very steady safe guy. You need some of those on the back end (think Hjarlmarsson style). He still needs some work though but he at least still has upside to be an NHL regular, IMO. Unlike some other players getting votes.

Kostalek is also a career AHLer....

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

which is still not proven by the number of NHL games.

Who was the better player last year, Peluso or Petan?

That is correct, it was not proven by the games Melchiori played at the NHL level, not at all.

Rather, it was proven because he PLAYED better than Jan, and as a result, he was called up to the NHL and Jan was not.

That is just purely fact.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

And since understanding the point someone is making prior to jumping into their debate, seemingly does not register with some, this was the comment that was made, that I argue against.

Kostalek was 2nd best dman on Moose. Quietly effective.

He was not the second best Dman on the Moose, nor third, I would say 4rth at best.

 

[csk]

And since understanding the point someone is making prior to jumping into their debate, seemingly does not register with some, this was the comment that was made, that I argue against.



He was not the second best Dman on the Moose, nor third, I would say 4rth at best.

I'm pretty sure he had the second best goal differential.

 

[scelaton]

Melchiori has some skill and size, but is 24, turning 25 this season. His upside is very limited at this point.
If we are talking prospects, Kostalek, at 21, has way more upside.

Interesting fact: Melchiori was taken #87 in 2010. Of the all the players taken before him, only 12 D have played more games than him in the NHL...and no one particularly notable other than Fowler and Faulk. McIlrath (#10) and Tinordi (#22) 2 D with XXL size, didn't turn out so well. http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2010e.html
A bad year for D in the draft...wonder what 2016 will look like in 6 years...

 

[Holden Caulfield]

That is correct, it was not proven by the games Melchiori played at the NHL level, not at all.

Rather, it was proven because he PLAYED better than Jan, and as a result, he was called up to the NHL and Jan was not.

That is just purely fact.

No its not. Its your opinion. Theres more factors that goes into a call-up than whos the best. Even then its possible that the people involved make the wrong call.

On that callup I'd have gone Melchiori as well, even though Kostalek was playing better than him. One it allows to Kostalek to play big minutes while Melchiori plays small minutes in NHL. It also allows you to see what you have in a guy who is aging out. Kostalek still has lots of time. Theres more to a call-up than straight who is best.

Its also funny that Kostalek being late for practice mayters but not Petan. How does that make sense?

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

No its not. Its your opinion. Theres more factors that goes into a call-up than whos the best. Even then its possible that the people involved make the wrong call.

On that callup I'd have gone Melchiori as well, even though Kostalek was playing better than him. One it allows to Kostalek to play big minutes while Melchiori plays small minutes in NHL. It also allows you to see what you have in a guy who is aging out. Kostalek still has lots of time. Theres more to a call-up than straight who is best.

Its also funny that Kostalek being late for practice mayters but not Petan. How does that make sense?

Yet posters on a hockey forum are the best judge of talent, always make the right calls?

I put much much much more faith into the notion that Maurice and McCambridge rewarded the players that performed the best, last season when deciding who to call up, than the silly notion it was based on outside factors Both players have similar contracts, both are trying to fight their way up the ranks.

Even more faith is put into the notion that Maurice and McCambridge are much more in tune with the team, who is playing well, who deserves to be called up, than the opinion of a poster on a forum.

You can call that my opinion, but I think its more just common sense.

As well, Melchiore played very well in the 11 games at the NHL level. So there is that as well, actual on ice performance at the NHL level that verifies he was the right choice to be called up.

And while a Kostalek vs Melchiore is a debate that I really could care less about, the real debate is who is the better prospect, Kostalek or Lipon?

Lipon has shown he has the capability of playing a solid 4rth line checking role at the NHL level. Jan has not shown enough to even slot him in at the 7 spot for an NHL team, yet.

And after watching him at the development camp, I feel less encouraged by what I saw from Jan. I was a big fan of him after his last season in the OHL. He was a bit of a late bloomer, so I still have hope for him, but he has to make some major improvements next season if he plans on ever getting called up to the Jets.

 

[mcpw]

Even more faith is put into the notion that Maurice and McCambridge are much more in tune with the team, who is playing well, who deserves to be called up, than the opinion of a poster on a forum.

Mark Stuart.

Your argument is invalid.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

Mark Stuart.

Your argument is invalid.

Remind me when he played for the Moose last season, again?

 

[mcpw]

Remind me when he played for the Moose last season, again?

.......what even.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

.......what even.

Exactly.

 

[Hobby Bull]

Went with Berdin again.

I still see good upside with a lot of players on this list.

I counted over a dozen who might see time in the NHL in their careers.